106 réponses à ce sujet

[Xralius]

Ok what if you had to collect 10million shards and the equivelent amount of resources. Is that OK, since they are just "changing the amount you collected"?

[robertthebard]

I might be fighting a losing battle in trying to convince both of you, since logic and reason do not apply to you, but I think anyone reading will agree that comparing a 3 hours of.collecting the same thing over and over is nothing compared to collecting 10 nugs.

Now you want to come at me with "logic and reason"? Really? Logic dictates that I'm not going to spend 3 hours gathering shards, all at once, but that, in the course of my 112 hours of game play, I may well get them all, even if I'm not specifically grinding them. I know, that's what happened to me. Logic also dictates that, in my first playthrough, since I only got about 1/3 of 'em, that I didn't pay any attention to them at all, and, I never went to the temple they unlock either. What's that say?

Reason dictates that, if something is tedious, and you're not required to do it all at once, you don't do it all at once. Changing the premise mid holler because you finally realized that people weren't going to bite on the initial bait doesn't change anything. Dropping MMO from your argument because reason finally set in, and you realized that position was untenable in your context doesn't do anything for you either. All it does demonstrate is that you didn't think your original position through, in an effort to bash the game. These threads, BTW, are usually started on Tuesdays. If I were a bit more motivated, I'd log into my mage playthrough, and screenshot my Hinterlands map, that has 7 of the shards located, but not picked up, and that Fog of War still covers 2/3 of them, meaning that I haven't even been to the part of the map they're on yet. But understanding that requires both logic and reason.

Edit to add: Is this an example of your Logic and Reason?

Modifié par robertthebard, 21 janvier 2015 - 11:32 .

[FKA_Servo]

Then it's still optional, I still wouldn't do it, and you're still mad about something that doesn't matter.

If I were that mad, I'd play a different game and stop wasting my time complaining about something I hate.

[Xralius]

Not to mention the shards were ONE EXAMPLE of the tedious quests in this game. Almost every quest is shallow. My arguement might actually suffer here because the quests were so boring and unimpressionable that I barely remember them.

[Xralius]

Ok, so you are agreeing with me they are tedious?

[Xralius]

Tedious but optional?

[DaemionMoadrin]

Already started but seriously, the only change they made was to increase how much you collected. The nature of the missions is still the same (to the OP)

 

Indeed. There were maybe 20 fetch quests in the game and most of those you could complete while you were doing the main quests. They were optional, meant to earn gold and marked as such. In one case they even lead to a side quest. This is not the case in DA:I. The sheer volume of unrelated fetch quests is the issue here.

How can it be that more than 75% of the game consists of time sinks? Those are MMO elements, designed to keep the players online as often and long as possible. They have no place in single player games. If you need to pad your game so it has a decent amount of gaming hours, then something went wrong.

[Xralius]

I have said numerous times that I did not gather the shards all at once. Once again you are wrong about something.

[FKA_Servo]

I never disagreed with you. A close reading of my responses would make that clear. Claiming that this isn't a problem in just about every other game is where I disagree with you.

Are you being paid by the post?

[Il Divo]

Indeed. There were maybe 20 fetch quests in the game and most of those you could complete while you were doing the main quests. They were optional, meant to earn gold and marked as such. In one case they even lead to a side quest. This is not the case in DA:I. The sheer volume of unrelated fetch quests is the issue here.

How can it be that more than 75% of the game consists of time sinks? Those are MMO elements, designed to keep the players online as often and long as possible. They have no place in single player games. If you need to pad your game so it has a decent amount of gaming hours, then something went wrong.

 

Honestly, it was no worse than ME1's padding via the Mako, imo. Sure, the sandbox elements get tiresome for certain players, no arguments there, but that's more of an issue when everything is done in one shot. 

 

Much like ME1 itself, if you remove all that extra padding, as in everything not related to main quests and companions, it's pretty darn short. 

[Nefla]

I might be fighting a losing battle in trying to convince both of you, since logic and reason do not apply to you, but I think anyone reading will agree that comparing a 3 hours of.collecting the same thing over and over is nothing compared to collecting 10 nugs.

Not to mention that while there were indeed fetch quests in DA:O, they were not only optional, but they were also not the only side quests included in the game. There are almost no sidequests out in those huge empty maps with the things that have been included in every BioWare game I've played before:

 

-Cutscenes

-Long conversations with varying dialogue choices

-Multiple ways to resolve quests, often including an evil or extortion choice

-Memorable NPCs

-Funny quests such as when you can convince a warrior woman that you're an herbalist and that she's very sick and needs to take off her armor (which you keep) and you can get her to pay you for your helpful diagnosis as well (I think this is part of the crime wave series)

[robertthebard]

I have said numerous times that I did not gather the shards all at once. Once again you are wrong about something.

Then what's it matter? My situation runs as follows: I'm on my way to Redcliffe, hey look, there's a shard on the porch, I pick it up. Did I make a special trip half a map out of my way to get it? Nope, I was walking by, saw the diamond on my minimap, took 4 steps out of my way and got it. Perspective is everything. If you're going out of your way to do it, it's tedious, if you pick it up on the way by, it's not even worth mentioning.

[Xralius]

Thank you Daemion, exactly. There was no one else siding me and I felt like Mugatu in Zoolander.
THEIR ALL TIME SINKS! "DOESNT ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THIS?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!"

[Winged Silver]

Indeed. There were maybe 20 fetch quests in the game and most of those you could complete while you were doing the main quests. They were optional, meant to earn gold and marked as such. In one case they even lead to a side quest. This is not the case in DA:I. The sheer volume of unrelated fetch quests is the issue here.

How can it be that more than 75% of the game consists of time sinks? Those are MMO elements, designed to keep the players online as often and long as possible. They have no place in single player games. If you need to pad your game so it has a decent amount of gaming hours, then something went wrong.

 

I have no arguments for anyone who finds them excessive. It's reasonable and valid, given their sheer volume. I just didn't appreciate the way the topic seemed to start veering off towards "Inquisition had totally different and worse mechanics" (or that's how I interpreted it, at least). I can say that I too preferred the smaller quantities found in Origins, but I didn't overly notice everything in Inquisition either. It was just kind of there for me. I know that's not the case for every player though

[DaemionMoadrin]

Honestly, it was no worse than ME1's padding via the Mako, imo. Sure, the sandbox elements get tiresome for certain players, no arguments there, but that's more of an issue when everything is done in one shot. 

 

Much like ME1 itself, if you remove all that extra padding, as in everything not related to main quests and companions, it's pretty darn short. 

 

Yeah, which is why ME1 doesn't rate very highly either. Same could be said for BG1. DA:I is over the top though.

[Xralius]

So you only complete the main quest Robert? No other quests?

[Il Divo]

Yeah, which is why ME1 doesn't rate very highly either. Same could be said for BG1. DA:I is over the top though.

 

Understandable. Granted, for myself I do rate DA:I higher than the above two games, but I get where you're coming from, especially since that was a huge part of why those two games ranked so low for me. 

[Xralius]

Winged Silver, you seem very reasonable. You have to admit that not just many, but most quests in DAI are very shallow and time consuming.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Understandable. Granted, for myself I do rate DA:I higher than the above two games, but I get where you're coming from, especially since that was a huge part of why those two games ranked so low for me. 

 

BG1 at least has the excuse that there is no urgency to do the main quest after Gorion dies.

 

I always disliked situations where the story says the world is ending and we need to to do something about it right now... and then you go off on some side quest.

[SkyKing]

Average gameplay being 120 hours for those who do most of the things is divided as follows. 

 

30 hours fetching requisitions

50 hours finding letters on dead bodies saying, "Er I died,  please go to other side of zone and plant my pot of weeds there so I can RIP". 

20 hours doing landmarks and finding resources so you can build things like the garden in skyhold which equates to adding 2 pots to the exisiting garden. 

10 hours doing the side zones that have somewhat of a quest. 

10 hours doing main story quests. 

[robertthebard]

So you only complete the main quest Robert? No other quests?

I've explained this already, mate. I don't go out of my way to do anything that's not required. I still haven't finished the astralatum things. If I see it pop up on the map, and I can get it, I get it. My thing is closing rifts for power and influence early, and things like getting the mounts unlocked/for the Inquisition, for all that matters in the end, and anything I stumble on along the way. If spent a lot of time on anything, like typing on the forums, it becomes tedious. But it's also self inflicted. Nobody is making me be here, but me. It takes longer to get to the Warden fortress in the Western Approach than it does to do the shards in the Hinterlands, the first time. Especially if I take into account that I'm not searching them, and then putting the rest of the game on hold until I have all the ones I found. My mage has opened up, I guess, 8 of them, and only picked up 2, and both were right where I was at when they lit up on my minimap.

[Winged Silver]

Winged Silver, you seem very reasonable. You have to admit that not just many, but most quests in DAI are very shallow and time consuming.

 

I believe it's a matter of opinion. The only thing I'm an expert on is my own, which is that I didn't notice them all that much. I just did the ones I felt like doing. Didn't feel like I was going out of my way. 

 

But that doesn't invalidate the players who felt otherwise. I think it's perfectly fine to let Bioware know one preferred the way the mechanic was handled in Origins, rather than Inquisition. I'm certain a lot of people agree with this. I just don't want to see too much arguing ^.^ (though I'm just as guilty as getting sucked in as anyone )

[Rawgrim]

Average gameplay being 120 hours for those who do most of the things is divided as follows. 

 

30 hours fetching requisitions

50 hours finding letters on dead bodies saying, "Er I died,  please go to other side of zone and plant my pot of weeds there so I can RIP". 

20 hours doing landmarks and finding resources so you can build things like the garden in skyhold which equates to adding 2 pots to the exisiting garden. 

10 hours doing the side zones that have somewhat of a quest. 

10 hours doing main story quests. 

 

This seems pretty accurate.

[Xralius]

But skyzone... The main story quest is optional so that doesn't count towards the total.

[Xralius]

(Making fun of the logic that because something is "optional" it can be as boring/lame/unfun/uemorable as possible and it doesn't matter)