12 réponses à ce sujet

[xoxoxo0xoxo]

Hello every1,

 

I recently aquired mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zethir and so i decided to play NWN2 again (starting from the original campagin)

point is im not really in the DND rules and im just overwhelmed by the character creation.
Id like to play a rogue/ Assasin (although the prestige class Assasin is not really a must)
Ive already read that Assasins suck in NWN2 due to Elementals and Undeads but Id like to play it anyway.

Can you give me a hint (or build) how to make that character?
Doesnt have to be very detailed, a list how many levels on what class and the most important feats/skills would be enough

 

thanks

[Basher of Glory]

A bit late, but perhaps it still helps a bit:

 

1) Rogues are - like in many newer games - the strongest damage dealers against SINGLE opponents. Usually they suck against undead, because these are immune to their sneak attacks. Also, most bosses can't be sneak attacked due to immunities.

 

2) As next they are - at least in AD&D - a vital member of every party, because they open locks and disarm traps. Because of their hide-skill, they can scout ahead, so that the party doesn't run into ambushes.

 

3) When on the character creation screen, it is really worth your while to read in the right section about the class you are about to create. The informations there tell you a lot about the primary attributes of the chosen class.

 

4) A rogue needs high dexterity (DEX) and high intelligence (INT). If she is your main, it doesn't hurt to give her some points in charisma (CHA) for a better diplomacy skill, which comes in handy very often.

 

5) On the skill screen, the last at the bottom is important, too: Use magical device. If you keep spending points here, your rogue will be able to use equipment with class restrictions, like monk robes and boots and other stuff.

 

6)Check your stats: Every even number (above 10) gives you one bonus point. Let's say a DEX of 12 gives +1, of 14 it gives +2 and so on. Thus, you have a +5 with DEX 20. These "+X" in DEX add to your armour class and your to-hit-ability.

Now read the descriptions of your equipped armours: They cap these bonuses at a certain point. A full plate allows +1, so it makes not sense to give a heavy fighter more than 12 DEX. Your rogue will come to the point, that any armour will hinder her due to that cap and she will want to wear clothes. Now, remember the monk robes?

 

7) For the start I'd suggest to build your rogue like this during the first levels:

STR 10

DEX 16

CON 10

INT 16

CHA 12

WIS 12

This is highly debatable. So called "min / maxers" tend to put their points only into DEX and INT, leaving anything else at the minimum of 8 or 10 and even lower if it's not a human. I prefer my mains slightly balanced, It never hurts to have some extra skills available, like said diplomacy, bluff or intimidate. Every skill is based on a main attribute.

 

8) The damage, the rogue does, comes from her sneak attacks. No STR is needed for that, but high DEX to hit. For that, the feat "weapon finesse" is vital. Read the descriptions of the weapons and the feats to learn, which weapon is finesseable and which is not.

 

9) A good combo of classes would be rogue / swashbuckler, because the swashbuckler gets "weapon finesse" for free on first or second level and at 7th the also important feat "mobility". Thus, these two classes complement each other in a good way.

 

Any class you choose for your main is "good", because you have a variety of companions who will compensate your shortfalls.

 

If you still play this great game and read this, I hope I could give you some useful pointers.

[Dann-J]

If you go the dexterity-based weapon finesse route, then you can take full advantage of a rapier found very early in MotB called Elemental's Ruin. It allows you to do half sneak attack or critical hit damage against elementals (fire, water, air, earth). It won't help you against the legions of undead in MotB though. It's made of adamantine, allowing you to bypass damage reduction against things like golems, and has the keen property which doubles the critical hit range (not that critical hits are of much use against undead).

 

Perhaps some sort of rogue / duelist / assassin combination might be in order? Duelist should further increase the effectiveness of a rapier (where it's effective at all, that is). Once your dexterity level outstrips the need for armour, having some duelist levels will add your intelligence bonus to your armour class. Apparently the damage bonus from the duelist's Precise Strike ability also works against critical hit immune creatures.

 

There are plenty of living enemies in MotB, so not everything will be immune to sneak attack / critical hit damage. I've played as a fighter / weapon master / black guard, and that character kicked arse quite nicely.

[Groove Widdit]

A bit late, but perhaps it still helps a bit:

 

1) Rogues are - like in many newer games - the strongest damage dealers against SINGLE opponents. Usually they suck against undead, because these are immune to their sneak attacks. Also, most bosses can't be sneak attacked due to immunities.

 

2) As next they are - at least in AD&D - a vital member of every party, because they open locks and disarm traps. Because of their hide-skill, they can scout ahead, so that the party doesn't run into ambushes.

 

3) When on the character creation screen, it is really worth your while to read in the right section about the class you are about to create. The informations there tell you a lot about the primary attributes of the chosen class.

 

4) A rogue needs high dexterity (DEX) and high intelligence (INT). If she is your main, it doesn't hurt to give her some points in charisma (CHA) for a better diplomacy skill, which comes in handy very often.

 

5) On the skill screen, the last at the bottom is important, too: Use magical device. If you keep spending points here, your rogue will be able to use equipment with class restrictions, like monk robes and boots and other stuff.

 

6)Check your stats: Every even number (above 10) gives you one bonus point. Let's say a DEX of 12 gives +1, of 14 it gives +2 and so on. Thus, you have a +5 with DEX 20. These "+X" in DEX add to your armour class and your to-hit-ability.

Now read the descriptions of your equipped armours: They cap these bonuses at a certain point. A full plate allows +1, so it makes not sense to give a heavy fighter more than 12 DEX. Your rogue will come to the point, that any armour will hinder her due to that cap and she will want to wear clothes. Now, remember the monk robes?

 

7) For the start I'd suggest to build your rogue like this during the first levels:

STR 10

DEX 16

CON 10

INT 16

CHA 12

WIS 12

This is highly debatable. So called "min / maxers" tend to put their points only into DEX and INT, leaving anything else at the minimum of 8 or 10 and even lower if it's not a human. I prefer my mains slightly balanced, It never hurts to have some extra skills available, like said diplomacy, bluff or intimidate. Every skill is based on a main attribute.

 

8) The damage, the rogue does, comes from her sneak attacks. No STR is needed for that, but high DEX to hit. For that, the feat "weapon finesse" is vital. Read the descriptions of the weapons and the feats to learn, which weapon is finesseable and which is not.

 

9) A good combo of classes would be rogue / swashbuckler, because the swashbuckler gets "weapon finesse" for free on first or second level and at 7th the also important feat "mobility". Thus, these two classes complement each other in a good way.

 

Any class you choose for your main is "good", because you have a variety of companions who will compensate your shortfalls.

 

If you still play this great game and read this, I hope I could give you some useful pointers.

Are you serious? A full plate caps your dex bonus at +1? Wow, I have been wasting some points. You just, like, totally bashed my glory.

 

[Arkalezth]

Duelist should further increase the effectiveness of a rapier (where it's effective at all, that is).

Yes, but only if using a single weapon, and dual wielding is way more effective for a rogue. If you want some extra damage against undead, a ranger level or two and the feat Improved Favoured Enemy is a good option. Crafting elemental weapons should help too, as well as any buffs you can get from companions (Flame Weapon from a certain druid, for example). And even if you go DEX based, don't dump STR.

MotB should be less of a problem. Take Epic Precision at level 21 (requires 10 rogue levels and Crippling Strike) and you'll be able to sneak attack anything.

As for the build itself, there are a few things I'd do a bit differently than BoG's, but his/her(/it?) post covers the basics well enough. For feats, take Finesse if DEX based, the full Two Weapon Fighting line, Blind Fight, Epic Precision... Those are the really important ones; there are better and worse ones for the rest, but as long as you have those, you'll do fine. Just be prepared for some frustration against undead and co.

[Tchos]

Are you serious? A full plate caps your dex bonus at +1? Wow, I have been wasting some points.

 

The points aren't necessarily wasted.  Dexterity bonus counts toward your armour.  Depending on how high your dex bonus is (and thus how much the cap was inhibiting it), it's possible that taking off that full plate won't change your armour class at all.

[Dann-J]

Mithral fullplate (if you can get some) provides the best armour class level available until your dexterity gets greater than 31.

 

With a dexterity of 30 (easily achievable in MotB), the best armour classes are provided by the following (not including bonuses from enchantment or feats):

 

Cloth or Nude: 20 (10 base AC, +10 dexterity bonus)

Mithral Chainshirt: 20 (10 base AC, 4 armour, +6 dexterity bonus)

Mithral Breastplate: 20 (10 base AC, 5 armour, +5 dexterity bonus)

Mithral Fullplate: 21 (10 base AC, 8 armour, +3 dexterity bonus)

 

At a dexterity of 32, mithral fullplate is equivalent to wearing nothing but a scarf (both hit 21). At a dexterity of 34 you're better off entering combat nude.

[Thorsson64]

1. Let's deal with AC first. Armor affects your sneak skill; sneaking in plate armor is like peeing in the wind. Also if you also take a class like Invisible Blade or Duelist you can get additional AC that is not available if wearing any Armor. The classic sneaker build is Ro16/Asn9/IB5. However, many of the goodies come late.

 

2. Starting stats. Points in Cha are largely wasted. An extra point or two on your Diplomacy or Bluff might be nice at the very start of the game, but soon becomes unnoticeable. Points in Wis are doubly wasted. You'll never have a great Will Save, so you'll want buffs and/or items to cover that off, and you have no other use for the Stat. OTOH Str gives you damage against everyone as well as carrying capacity (try wearing plate with 10 Str) and Con gives you HPs, as well as improving your Fort Save. Don't push Int too far - it's nice, but Dex is definitely your main Stat, it increase attack, armor, sneak skills.

 

3. There are two reasons why playing a sneaker is a bad idea in the Campaigns. The first is the prevalence of foes immune to sneak attack, against which you have little recourse until you get Epic Precision. The second is the AI. You are going to have to spend a lot of time ensuring that your companions don't do stupid things that invalidate your sneaking. It should be noted that Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike also needs Epic Precision to work against sneak immunes. Given the numbers of Undead in the game, the advice concerning Ranger and Favored Enemy is certainly worth considering.

 

4. Assassin is great, but you don't get HiPS until level 13 earliest. You can sneak before that, but not 're-sneak', so you are pretty vulnerable. Conversations break sneak. This makes any of the solo battles hard before you get HiPS. Shadowdancer allows you to get HiPS by level 8, but doesn't have much else to recommend it. 

 

5. Humans aren't very good sneakers. Consider another Race that has bonuses to Hide/Move Silently and/or a bonus to Dex. Of course there are some downsides to this, e.g. Tieflings are ECL1 and Halflings are -2 Str.

[Basher of Glory]

Are you serious? A full plate caps your dex bonus at +1? Wow, I have been wasting some points. You just, like, totally bashed my glory.

As others already wrote:

 

Just get rid of the ugly, heavy thing and look for light stuff. In MotB you find early on in the starter cave a robe (cloth) with ridiculous high AC.

 

About Thorson64 points:

 

He is totally right. My fault was to think, you start the OC and not MotB. In a high level environment one ore two bonus points are really not worth it to loose a point in vital stats. Nevertheless, I'd recommend not to go into the "penalty-area" below 10.

[Arkalezth]

Since everyone's talking about stats, a typical min-maxed human rogue would look more or less like this (note than by "min-maxed" I don't mean pushing one stat at the cost of everything else; that isn't effective):

STR - 14 (A bit of extra damage, particularly useful when you can't sneak, and some carrying capacity.)

DEX - 17 (Main stat - increase at level up. May need to start with more if you want Perfect TWF in epic.)

CON - 14 (Rogues have only 6 HP per level. It helps to have some more.)

INT - 14 (8 skill points per level are a lot, but there's also a lot of useful skills, and assassin doesn't get as many points. More than 14 is usually too costly for little gain.)

WIS - 8 (Pretty much useless. A crappy will save +1 is still a crappy will save.)

CHA - 8 (Same deal. A single point in a couple of skills is not worth the investment.)

1 point left over. You can put it on WIS or CHA, it doesn't matter as 9 isn't better than 8.

Now, you can adjust things somewhat if those 8s look ugly to you or whatever; it won't make a great difference. But mechanically speaking, that's about the most effective way to go.

Regarding armour, use a normal chain shirt at first. As the game progresses and you gain DEX, you can start using lighter armour and/or a mithral one.

[Basher of Glory]

Since everyone's talking about stats, a typical min-maxed human rogue would look more or less like this (note than by "min-maxed" I don't mean pushing one stat at the cost of everything else; that isn't effective):

INT - 14 (8 skill points per level are a lot, but there's also a lot of useful skills, and assassin doesn't get as many points. More than 14 is usually too costly for little gain.)

 

Hmm... you wouldn't increase INT over time?

[Arkalezth]

Hmm... you wouldn't increase INT over time?

Do you mean at level up? No. Actually, INT is, in a way, the worst stat for that, as its effects (extra skill points) aren't retroactive. Unless you intend to increase it a lot (18+) or you're a wizard, it's usually better to leave it as it is at level 1. In other words, if you want to finish with 16 INT, it's better to start with 16 already, rather than starting with 14 and increase it with levels (the latter approach gets less skill points).

Either way, 14 INT is enough for me 99% of the time, or at least not worth the sacrifice in other stats to raise it higher than that. Although, in this case, assassin' Death Attack benefits somewhat from a high INT (and so does swashbuckler's Insightful Strike, if you're taking that class), so at least you'd be getting some extra use out of it besides skill points here.

[Basher of Glory]

Well, you wrote about min / maxing. If I'd play this DDO-MMO again - which will never happen again - I'd do, like you advised.

 

In a SP-campaign like the OC I stll love my "skill monkey", especially if it is my main.