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[Don Lionheart]

I always side with mages for my canon playthroughs of all Dragon Age games because all my characters are canon mages, but also because I find that I agree with the mages without completely resenting the Templars.  In DA2, I stay middle of the road as long as possible because I try to maintain peace the best that I can.  That said, I want to move on to the more important topic here: why do so many people HATE Fiona?  There was a post above that said he'd read the books so he understood her and didn't hate her, so I'm thinking I'm the same because I love her character.  So, if someone can explain this hatred of her, please do!  I'm genuinely curious and was completely taken aback by the hatred of her.  Thank you!

[Ranadiel Marius]

That said, I want to move on to the more important topic here: why do so many people HATE Fiona? There was a post above that said he'd read the books so he understood her and didn't hate her, so I'm thinking I'm the same because I love her character. So, if someone can explain this hatred of her, please do! I'm genuinely curious and was completely taken aback by the hatred of her. Thank you!

There are two camps of people who hate her, with some overlap.

The first camp hates her because she comes off as a character from a bad fan fiction in the novels because of how much of a special snowflake she is. She upended established canon regarding Alister for no discernable reason making the sister side quest make no sense, and all we get for that upending is a writer's pet that seems to have been designed to be the most super special awesome thing ever, to the point that it is eye roll worthy. "I'm a badass Grey warden, oh met a man, now I'm immune to the taint so we can have babies! Now I have a kid who is a prince, but he can never know about me because reasons. Peace out I'm off to become Grand Enchanter and free the mages because everyone loves me." Mary Sue used to be used a lot when talking about her pre-DAI.

The second camp hates her because she is a complete moron in DAI. She started a war against the templars with absolutely no plan on how to make the rebellion work beyond, "We deserve freedom." By dumb luck her people manage to get positioned in the most defensible city in the South thanks to the mercy of the Fereldan monarch. However the moment she hears (false) rumors that the templars are marching on Redcliffe her solution is not to plan with the ARL on how to best protect the village, but to betray his trust, ally with a foreign power that is incapable of assisting in the hypothetical situation she fears, and institute a rebellion. And to top it off, in the process she sells her people into slavery unknowingly. Then when she realizes that she is dealing with Darth Vader, her response is to whimper like a kicked puppy rather than trying to do anything about it. Hell she doesn't even help save the mages in their quest. And no, time travel magic does not excuse any of these incompetencies. In DAI she is an incompetent leader and does more to hurt the cause of mage freedom than even the templars by showing that yes the mages will side with the evil empire if freed from the watchful eye of the templars.

[X Equestris]

There are two camps of people who hate her, with some overlap.
The first camp hates her because she comes off as a character from a bad fan fiction in the novels because of how much of a special snowflake she is. She upended established canon regarding Alister for no discernable reason making the sister side quest make no sense, and all we get for that upending is a writer's pet that seems to have been designed to be the most super special awesome thing ever, to the point that it is eye roll worthy. "I'm a badass Grey warden, oh met a man, now I'm immune to the taint so we can have babies! Now I have a kid who is a prince, but he can never know about me because reasons. Peace out I'm off to become Grand Enchanter and free the mages because everyone loves me." Mary Sue used to be used a lot when talking about her pre-DAI.
The second camp hates her because she is a complete moron in DAI. She started a war against the templars with absolutely no plan on how to make the rebellion work beyond, "We deserve freedom." By dumb luck her people manage to get positioned in the most defensible city in the South thanks to the mercy of the Fereldan monarch. However the moment she hears (false) rumors that the templars are marching on Redcliffe her solution is not to plan with the ARL on how to best protect the village, but to betray his trust, ally with a foreign power that is incapable of assisting in the hypothetical situation she fears, and institute a rebellion. And to top it off, in the process she sells her people into slavery unknowingly. Then when she realizes that she is dealing with Darth Vader, her response is to whimper like a kicked puppy rather than trying to do anything about it. Hell she doesn't even help save the mages in their quest. And no, time travel magic does not excuse any of these incompetencies. In DAI she is an incompetent leader and does more to hurt the cause of mage freedom than even the templars by showing that yes the mages will side with the evil empire if freed from the watchful eye of the templars.

It's worth noting on the first point that Fiona never upended canon. The Calling came out about a month before Origins. Her being the mother of Alistair is heavily implied there. This wasn't confirmed until very recently, but the idea had been floating around for quite a while.

[keesio74]

It's worth noting on the first point that Fiona never upended canon. The Calling came out about a month before Origins. Her being the mother of Alistair is heavily implied there. This wasn't confirmed until very recently, but the idea had been floating around for quite a while.

 

The game was in development for years. The story of DA:O was fleshed out long before The Calling was written.

[X Equestris]

The game was in development for years. The story of DA:O was fleshed out long before The Calling was written.

And you think that wasn't part of the plan all along?

[Innsmouth Dweller]

time travel is possible only because of the rifts/breach whatever, inq will close them anyway, so... besides templar quest is much more awesome, as you've said you can kill Fiona (hell yeah!) and don't kill Calpernia (i do like her, Tevinter rules and all that)

 

i was really depressed my PC couldn't do all those things Envy showed me, that's the only downside of choosing templars :3

[GoneGrimdark]

I think they tried to make the issue more 'should the Circle be reformed or destroyed'? We all knew the mages were being abused and the Circle/Templar relationship as it stood wasn't working. I haven't sided with the Templars, but they do seem to imply they would 'reform' the Circle and be kinder and not abuse mages, but still keep a close eye on them. Cassandra even wants to keep the Circles but let mages have freedoms and Templars be the 'defenders of the innocent'. 

 

And most people hate Fiona. She was stupid, and willingly agreed to enslave everyone to Tevinter for safety. Not siding with her because of that would make sense. I think they were pretty balanced, and while the overall tone was 'mages need some freedoms- this isn't working' you have two ways of dealing with that. Helping mages and abolishing Circles and letting them be like everyone else or helping Templars and reforming the circle so that it's not as bad, but mages are still under close watch. Or even mixing and matching those!

[keesio74]

And you think that wasn't part of the plan all along?

 

I doubt it. When initially creating the story for Origins, I doubt they thought that far ahead - at least along those details. It's like how in the Star Wars universe, Luke and Leia were never meant to be related (which is why there is this slight sexual tension between them in the first film) and even Vader being Luke's dad wasn't confirmed until Empire started production. Lucas had rough ideas for where stuff was going to go in the Star Was universe but the only concrete thing for sure at the time was the plot for Star Wars Episode 4. One thing Lucas did that I liked was how he had Luke annoyed at Ben for telling him Vader killed Anakin in RotJ and Ben going "it's true... from a certain point of view". That was Lucas winking at the whole ret-con thing and it was cool he acknowledged it instead of it getting ignored like you see in most cases.

 

Bioware most likely had the Origins story solidified and then they started to flesh out the other details later.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I doubt it. When initially creating the story for Origins, I doubt they thought that far ahead - at least along those details. It's like how in the Star Wars universe, Luke and Leia were never meant to be related (which is why there is this slight sexual tension between them in the first film) and even Vader being Luke's dad wasn't confirmed until Empire started production. Lucas had rough ideas for where stuff was going to go in the Star Was universe but the only concrete thing for sure at the time was the plot for Star Wars Episode 4. One thing Lucas did that I liked was how he had Luke annoyed at Ben for telling him Vader killed Anakin in RotJ and Ben going "it's true... from a certain point of view". That was Lucas winking at the whole ret-con thing and it was cool he acknowledged it instead of it getting ignored like you see in most cases.

Bioware most likely had the Origins story solidified and then they started to flesh out the other details later.

Going somewhat off-topic, but if you want to see how Star Wars was originally envisioned there was a comic made a couple of years ago based on the earliest version of the script. Details such as Luke and Leia being siblings and Darth Vader being their father....was very clearly not there.

[keesio74]

Going somewhat off-topic, but if you want to see how Star Wars was originally envisioned there was a comic made a couple of years ago based on the earliest version of the script. Details such as Luke and Leia being siblings and Darth Vader being their father....was very clearly not there.

 

I know that Luke was always planned to have a sister but it wasn't Leia. I believe one plot item for Episode 7 was Luke looking for his sister but Lucas figured that there would never be an Episode 7 brought to screen (at the time) so they made Leia the sister as they were finishing up writing Empire.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I know that Luke was always planned to have a sister but it wasn't Leia. I believe one plot item for Episode 7 was Luke looking for his sister but Lucas figured that there would never be an Episode 7 brought to screen (at the time) so they made Leia the sister as they were finishing up writing Empire.

This draft is earlier than that. In this one Anakin (Luke character) has a little brother who is killed very early on by a Sith, then his father drops him off for training with Luke (Obi-Wan character) because Anakin's father is mostly machine so he can't properly feel the force or something. Later on Anakin and Leia hook up. Oh and there is a fleet of starships flown by wookies who were taught to fly in like an hour by Luke. The whole thing is surreal.