235 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Honestly, just look at what Meredith had to work with.

A group of Kirkwall mages managed to turn a spirit of Wisdom into a Pride demon without even meaning to. There was clearly something wrong with that Circle.

[fhs33721]

I agree, except I'll add he was also okay with one of the Circle mages being kidnapped and killed for a blood magic ritual... or he was ignorant and was not interested in the disappearance of an elderly Circle mage.

 

He doesn't even ask Hawke to look for a missing mage who, rumor had it, had an admirer that she was going to go see (it seems she was able to leave the Circle, too...). A Templar... one who is going outside his duties since the Order told him to drop it, so good for him... had to ask for Hawke's help.

 

Still, Orsino was resentful and had no love for non-mages, I agree with that. He ended up being in a hopeless situation and just decided to make his end as spiteful as he could, which even Cullen advised the Inquisitor to do when Cory was destroying Haven...

Orsino doesn't even know Hawke until they first meet during the Qunari attack. Which is after the entire Quentin-plot is already finished.

[Daerog]

No sorry. Uldred got possessed by a Pride Demon. There were four IIRC other mages that joined him. The rest were either under duress or killed. The Ferelden Circle is described in the codex as being 'liberal'. This is largely due to the amicable if distant relationship between the mages and templars.

 

It was a pretty "chill" place from the looks of it. After reading The Calling, I was a bit shocked that was the case, since there was a psycho First Enchanter who was planning to conquer Fereldan for Orlais and even brought a darkspawn into the Tower to teach him blight magic....

 

Then Irving becomes First Enchanter, and I guess the Templars must really like him beforehand while being so trusting after their incompetence with watching the last First Enchanter.

 

Loghain had to come in to stop what was happening in Fereldan's Tower, where were the Templars?! To be honest, it has been a while since I read it, maybe they explained they were killed or mind controlled or in on the plan with the FE or whatever.

[Daerog]

Orsino doesn't even know Hawke until they first meet during the Qunari attack.

 

Ah, my bad, I must have forgotten the order of events, it's been a while since I played DA2.

 

Thank you for the correction.

[Sjofn]

Man, I feel completely differently than the OP. I mostly sided with the mages in DA:O just because I liked their army better in the end (and as others have pointed out, you can side with the Templars without losing Wynne). I thought both sides were sympathetic. 

 

In DA2, I felt more sympathy for the templars because Kirkwall is a hellmouth that apparently drives all its mages crazy and that has to be really difficult for even the nicest templars to deal with. Yes, there were some majorly awful templars (duh), but there were also some majorly awful mages (duh). Kirkwall needs to just be burned to the ground and never spoken of again, really. I will admit I almost always sided with the mages at the end, because murdering an entire Circle for something an apostate did is pants on head stupid, though.

 

And in DA:I, Ser Barras is awesome, while Fiona is an idiot. But putting that aside, I feel like DA:I has a good balance, really. I see good reasons for siding with the mages AND good reasons for siding with the Templars.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Don't forget how Lambert has no redeeming qualities in Inquisition with literally no positive qualities for him being said and him being portrayed entirely as a villain. Don't forget how all endings give mages more freedom and have the templars lose some of the power they have. Also, don't forget how if Hawke sided with the Templars, it's later revealed that they started taking red lyrium and overthrew Hawke. I lol'd when I heard that. Wouldn't surprise me if it's later revealed that siding with the templars wound up backfiring in some way. 

[llandwynwyn]

No sorry. Ulrded got possessed by a Pride Demon. There were four IIRC other mages that joined him. The rest were either under duress or killed. The Ferelden Circle is described in the codex as being 'liberal'. This is largely due to the amicable if distant relationship between the mages and templars.

Irving's actions were as problematic as Orsino's, we see the flaw of his system in the mage origin.

 

Jowan, that he consider too weak to go through the harrowing thus releases rumors he is going to be tranquilized to force your moronic friend to act in despair, learns BM and is powerful enough to momentarily disable First Enchanter, old goat, Irving himself on his way out. Plus many templars.

 

and we've Uldred.

 

Bravo.

 

http://dragonage.wik...rving's_Mistake

[AresKeith]

This. You're the First ****** Enchanter of a Circle of Magi. You should be putting down maleficarum, not enabling them. Look at Irving, his Circle (barring a couple bad eggs) was so chill they had books on blood magic in their library. Orsino definitely had ulterior motives and while I don't blame and even protected his subordinates in DA2 nothing... nothing justified his actions.

 

Still don't see what Anders had against that Circle lol

[Daerog]

Still don't see what Anders had against that Circle lol

 

He couldn't have a harem and rain fire on those he perceived as fools. 

 

My question is why he doesn't approve of Tevinter, disagree with blood magic and slavery, sure, but Tevinter is more than that.

[nikki-tikki]

To me it depends on the game, its easy to side with the mages in origins, while in DA2 its difficult as both sides honestly deserve righteous purging via seekers and in DAI you have mages willingly betraying the king to ally with tevinter, mass murder of the tranquil to make shard finding skulls and mages willing murder other mages who don't wish to join the rebellion. Then throw in the fact that pouring magic into a mark made by unknown magic sounds extremely dangerous and you got plenty of reason to find out what's wrong with the Templars and get their help instead.

Wait...that's where the skulls came from??? omgggggg....I regret farming the shards now...

[The Baconer]

My question is why he doesn't approve of Tevinter, disagree with blood magic and slavery, sure, but Tevinter is more than that.

 

He approves when you give him a Tevinter Chantry amulet, so... maybe he does, to an extent.

[Augustei]

I'm sorry OP, but did you refer to Ser Badass as "Some Random douchebag"?

[leadintea]

I believe he was talking about Behemoth Denam.

[Lewie]

Well depending on your choices Cass can remake the seekers and recruit a lot of templars who were lost in the whole debacle.

 

I really like her for the reason she is the only one who shows you who the seekers should be, and she is good through and through.

 

I think if the **** hits the fan again she would be the first person I would go to.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I'm sorry OP, but did you refer to Ser Badass as "Some Random douchebag"?

You support Lucius?! LOL why am I not surprised.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Ironic that Leliana offers the best ending for pro-templars if you conscript the mages. Leliana remakes the Seekers and the mages remain under the watchful eye of the Inquisition where they become a shining example of the all the good things mages can do.

[thesuperdarkone2]

double post.

[Augustei]

You support Lucius?! LOL why am I not surprised.

When did I say I supported Lucius?

[thesuperdarkone2]

When did I say I supported Lucius?

OP said that Lucius was a douchebag. You said OP insulted a badass templar, therefore, you support Lucius since that's who the OP was referring to.

[Augustei]

OP said that Lucius was a douchebag. You said OP insulted a badass templar, therefore, you support Lucius since that's who the OP was referring to.

I thought he was referring to Ser Badass http://dragonage.wik...i/Delrin_Barris

[Helmetto]

I thought he was referring to Ser Badass http://dragonage.wik...i/Delrin_Barris

Was referring to Denam, not Lucius or Barris.

[Augustei]

Was referring to Denam, not Lucius or Barris.

Denam? Oh yeah that guy is a douchebag

[Marshal Moriarty]

Any group can be loved or hated based on how they are currently being represented. Orlais was painted very badly in Origins, because the only times they were mentioned, it was by people who were speaking of the atrocities they committed when they invaded Ferelden. Even the woman in the marketplace who is actually from Orlais and claims to miss it, has a story of having to flee because a Chevalier tried to enforce his legal right to (effectively) rape her  Unsurprisingly, this is something that isn't brought up in Inquisition, when Orlais is painted in a much more favorable light.

 

Show people a positive representation and they will support the people in question. I.e if you ask someone about Chevaliers after showing them that scene I just mentioned, they will express concern that anyone would be allowed such rights, and that Orlais should introduce reforms etc, and that Ferelden is more forward thinking and progressive etc. But if you then showed a big battle sequence, where the Chevaliers finally get to ride their horses, and show them in glittering armour riding forth in a mighty host and smiting demons and darkspawn left, right and center, you'd have them cheering in the aisles. People would be swarming this board demanding Bioware to let them be a Chevalier etc etc.

 

Its the same with Tevinter and the Qun. If the game actually takes us to those places and show us cool stuff that those places get up to, good works that they do, then people will support them too.

[keesio74]

In DA:O it was easy to support the Mages. I was quite sympathetic to their cause - at least the more rational ones like Irving and Wynne. My impression of the Chantry and Templars was not a positive one in DA:O

 

In D2, it was a little tougher. But I was mostly pro-mage through most of the game and it would have been more so if Anders wasn't so damn annoying. When Anders blew up the chantry, my sentiment shifted but it wasn't enough to for me to side with the Templars as I chose to protect the innocent Mages from being slaughtered. The fact that I liked Bethany (mage) and Merrill was my LI played a factor.

 

In DA:I, it is more balanced. I am torn. At the end of the day I lean slightly templar because the Mages I respected the most were the ones like Irving and Wynne... and they most likely believe in the circle vs Fiona and the rebels who want to abolish it completely. It is a tough call because I am usually more pro-mage...