333 réponses à ce sujet

[Liamv2]

Just give me an example of what you consider to be a well written character, what is it about them that makes them feel like a real character? Is it their actions? Their motivations? Their beliefs? Their backstory? Personality?

 

Kanji from persona is a favorite of mine. He's slightly brutish but also has his softer side and his actions reflect that while he truly struggles with his identity and sexualitiy and what makes him a person. Admittedly arguing over what makes a character well written is kinda pointless since there is so many conflicting views on what makes someone "human".

[Il Divo]

I can't believe I'm defending TW, but these characters are self-serving, rather than simple sephiroth evil.

 

Still, that can be regarded as evil, particularly if they're willing to hurt/kill others in the process to get what they want. 

[jeromefiefdom]

Just give me an example of what you consider to be a well written character, what is it about them that makes them feel like a real character? Is it their actions? Their motivations? Their beliefs? Their backstory? Personality?

For me it is a balance between backstory, their reactions to their action (rather than the action itself), and disadvantages/ advantages of the characters (ie, born rich, slowly going insane, racist, powerful magical talent). For an example of well written characters I enjoy, it would be Rand Al'thor and Ishmael from WOT, Harry Dresden from Dresden Files, Lorn/Felsin/ Icarium of Malazan, Sarif/Darrow/Taggart of Deus Ex; Human Revoltuion, and Roxas from Kingdom Hearts

[B.A. Broska]

Give me a single good and redeeming quality for Dethmold, Loredo, or Wild Hunt. THere are also many simly black and white characters. Roche and Ves are incredibly moral characters, that while having prejeduices, ultimately work for what they believe to be right.

 

Dethmold is clever and resourceful and quite good at uncovering secrets making him an effective Inquisitor (not the Dragon Age Inquisitor), he is also loyal to the King and nation he serves. Also while this may not be a noble trait he is also fairly knowledgeable in the arcane and not above using the more frowned on schools of magic and other more unsavory actions to further his goals making him a fairly powerful ally.

 

Loredo on the other hand while he is one of the most detestable characters in the game you can at least understand how he manages to keep his hold over Flotsam. While he isn't the smartest character in the game he still isn't completely lacking in this area either and has shown that he does know how to manipulate people.

 

As for the Wild Hunt that is not a person but a group that has only been mentioned briefly in the games, we know so little about it that it would be hard to ascertain it's motives and redeemable qualities.

 

Also not sure what you mean by calling Roche and Ves "incredibly moral characters", care to elaborate?

[jeromefiefdom]

Dethmold is clever and resourceful and quite good at uncovering secrets making him an effective Inquisitor (not the Dragon Age Inquisitor), he is also loyal to the King and nation he serves. Also while this may not be a noble trait he is also fairly knowledgeable in the arcane and not above using the more frowned on schools of magic and other more unsavory actions to further his goals making him a fairly powerful ally.

 

Loredo on the other hand while he is one of the most detestable characters in the game you can at least understand how he manages to keep his hold over Flotsam. While he isn't the smartest character in the game he still isn't completely lacking in this area either and has shown that he does know how to manipulate people.

 

Those aren't exactly good qualities. Those are useful skills, but those don't make one a good person. Morinth has powerful biotics, but is a rapist.  Semihage is a incredibly accomplished healer, but is probably the most unsympathetic character in WOT. Darkseid has usefull management skills, but is a complete sadist.

[B.A. Broska]

Those aren't exactly good qualities. Those are useful skills, but those don't make one a good person. Morinth has powerful biotics, but is a rapist.  Semihage is a incredibly accomplished healer, but is probably the most unsympathetic character in WOT. Darkseid has usefull management skills, but is a complete sadist.

 

I never said they were noble characters, but their motives and actions are at least understandable and they at least show the competence one would expect of somebody who holds their positions.

[B.A. Broska]

Kanji from persona is a favorite of mine. He's slightly brutish but also has his softer side and his actions reflect that while he truly struggles with his identity and sexualitiy and what makes him a person. Admittedly arguing over what makes a character well written is kinda pointless since there is so many conflicting views on what makes someone "human".

 

And how is this characterization conveyed throughout the game and the story? What does this character do that makes these traits apparent?

[jeromefiefdom]

I never said they were noble characters, but their motives and actions are at least understandable and they at least show the competence one would expect of somebody who holds their positions.

 

I agree that those are useful and possibly understandable, but I was asking about qualities that can make them at least slightly sympathetic. Handsome Jack may be a monster, but he loves his daughter. Darth Vader slaughtered hundreds of Jedi, but we know he was a good man once. Quentin was distraught after the death of his wife  and is driven insane by his love, but (spoiiiiiilllllllleeeeeerrrrrrs).....murders Leandra.

 

 

Also, Roche's only negative qualities come from a slight racism of elves (which you can call him out on). He cares deeply for those under his command, will help Geralt without question, is willing to think of a solution that works out for everyone, and is and all around decent person. Ves follows much of Roche's characterization, but unfortunately becomes eye candy, and then gets stuffed into the fridge. 

 

Also, the books expand on the Wild Hunt's role, but given that you are a fan of the series, I won't spoil their identity

[jeromefiefdom]

Gay

 

Dear Troll,

What wonderful weather we are having. The snow sure does fall heavily this time of the year. If 

you could please do me a favor though. Dont be a dick.

Thank you.

[nici2412]

Dragon Age series (especially Inqusition)

[SlottsMachine]

Dear Troll,

What wonderful weather we are having. The snow sure does fall heavily this time of the year. If 

you could please do me a favor though. Dont be a dick.

Thank you.

 

We run this town. 

[wolfhowwl]

Nintendo in general.

 

Oh wow, another Mario game!

[B.A. Broska]

I agree that those are useful and possibly understandable, but I was asking about qualities that can make them at least slightly sympathetic. Handsome Jack may be a monster, but he loves his daughter. Darth Vader slaughtered hundreds of Jedi, but we know he was a good man once. Quentin was distraught after the death of his wife  and is driven insane by his love, but (spoiiiiiilllllllleeeeeerrrrrrs).....murders Leandra.

 

 

Also, Roche's only negative qualities come from a slight racism of elves (which you can call him out on). He cares deeply for those under his command, will help Geralt without question, is willing to think of a solution that works out for everyone, and is and all around decent person. Ves follows much of Roche's characterization, but unfortunately becomes eye candy, and then gets stuffed into the fridge. 

 

Not sure what your point is, not all characters need to be sympathetic to be well written (though Witcher 2 has more than it's fair share of sympathetic characters), some people are just self serving assholes and Loredo and Dethmold serve their purposes well.

 

As for Roche I do have to wonder if we played the same game.

 

 

Vernon Roche is more like the CIA agent willing to get his hands dirty and do things that others may consider immoral in order to protect the interests of the country he serves, he is not above murder or torture and he also has some anger management issues that can cause him to lose control and kill the person he is interrogating.

 

As for helping Geralt without question their alliance is more one of mutual benefit, Roche frees Geralt because he needs his help to find the Kingslayer but that does not mean he fully trusts him, while if you do choose to side with Roche after Flotsam a bond starts to form initially he is still having his men keep an eye on Geralt and report his actions, he even goes so far as to tail you when you go to meet the scoia'tael. In the end it is more Geralt assisting Roche than Roche assisting Geralt.

[jeromefiefdom]

Not sure what your point is, not all characters need to be sympathetic to be well written (though Witcher 2 has more than it's fair share of sympathetic characters), some people are just self serving assholes and Loredo and Dethmold serve their purposes well.

 

As for Roche I do have to wonder if we played the same game.

 

 

Vernon Roche is more like the CIA agent willing to get his hands dirty and do things that others may consider immoral in order to protect the interests of the country he serves, he is not above murder or torture and he also has some anger management issues that can cause him to lose control and kill the person he is interrogating.

 

As for helping Geralt without question their alliance is more one of mutual benefit, Roche frees Geralt because he needs his help to find the Kingslayer but that does not mean he fully trusts him, while if you do choose to side with Roche after Flotsam a bond starts to form initially he is still having his men keep an eye on Geralt and report his actions, he even goes so far as to tail you when you go to meet the scoia'tael. In the end it is more Geralt assisting Roche than Roche assisting Geralt.

 

Its definitely more of a contrast, thing though. Iorveth is a allround ass, which probably influenced me a bit. What I liked about him is that he actually had remorse for what he did, unlike his counterpart

[Seboist]

Probably 1 of the biggest reasons i couldn't get into TW series apart from the sexual double standard is how bad some of its fanbase is, especially the more rabid & unpleasant fans who go to the extreme when hating on everything Bioware does, some of the personal attacks ive seen were way out of order

 

There's plenty of good reason to hate Bioware's recent schlock without needing to be a witcher fan, from substandard gameplay (took them until ME3 to implement basic TPS elements that Gears of War 1 had in '06), mediocre to average at best writing (ME1/DAO), god awful at best writing (DA2, ME2/3) and "choose your cutscene" type faux-choices. I don't have much experience with Bioware's games pre-ME1/DAO but I'm certainly not impressed with their brand going by their recent offerings.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Kanji from persona is a favorite of mine. He's slightly brutish but also has his softer side and his actions reflect that while he truly struggles with his identity and sexualitiy and what makes him a person. Admittedly arguing over what makes a character well written is kinda pointless since there is so many conflicting views on what makes someone "human".

> implying

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

There's plenty of good reason to hate Bioware's recent schlock without needing to be a witcher fan, from substandard gameplay (took them until ME3 to implement basic TPS elements that Gears of War 1 had in '06), mediocre to average at best writing (ME1/DAO), god awful at best writing (DA2, ME2/3) and "choose your cutscene" type faux-choices. I don't have much experience with Bioware's games pre-ME1/DAO but I'm certainly not impressed with their brand going by their recent offerings.

Is fine to not like BW games or their direction now but in my experience the hardcore Witcher fans go overboard with their hatred towards BW & their fans with their personal attacks, acting like only "SJW's" would dare to disagree with their opinions

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Same can be said of how many BioWare fans act towards The Witcher and those who like it. I don't know if one is any worse than the other because I'm not a common sight in any TW-centric environment, but it's pretty safe to say both are guilty of this behaviour.

Yeah, both sets of fans have a-holes, ive mostly seen TW fans get unnecessarily personal about it tho

[slimgrin]

Is fine to not like BW games or their direction now but in my experience the hardcore Witcher fans go overboard with their hatred towards BW & their fans with their personal attacks, acting like only "SJW's" would dare to disagree with their opinions

 

A lot of that is spurned ex Bioware fans. Saw it happen over the course of ME2---->DA2, as Bioware changed. It's not excusable, but you can't make the internet a nice place. Plus, CDPR are the antitheses to Bioware in their philosophy. So they draw the opposite fans.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

A lot of that is spurned ex Bioware fans. Saw it happen over the course of ME2---->DA2, as Bioware changed. It's not excusable, but you can't make the internet a nice place. Plus, CDPR are the antitheses to Bioware in their philosophy. So they draw the opposite fans.

All the hatred just seems unnecessary IMO, wish everybody could enjoy the games they like without it turning into a fanboy war