333 réponses à ce sujet

[ruggly]

Dragon Age: Origins.

 

Yes, I said that. It's not to say it's a horrible game, I enjoyed it well enough, but I don't see it as the golden RPG as many others do, plus the combat is boring as ****.

[Aaleel]

ME2, I've seen people call this the best game ever and I just don't see it.

 

You're just given grocery lists of characters to recruit, not told why you need these people, what skills they bring to the table that will help you stop the collectors, just go get them.  The collectors (the reason you're even doing all of this) just become an afterthought.  Then the game freezes your travels and makes you go TIM to do one mission after you've almost forgotten about the collectors and then you're give the next list.

 

Then regardless of if the companions like you or not, or if you've even talked to them at all they all come with their hands out asking for a favor.  None of the recruitment missions or loyalty missions have anything to do with the collectors, and given how the game played out you'd have thought the danger facing the universe was Mercs because that's all you fought all game over and over.

 

Then the last mission is also overrated IMHO.  If you're a completionist that does all the missions, gets all the materials, and does all the research its anticlimactic.  All the assignments had obvious choices so it pretty much just ended up being a bunch of fighting with a speech thrown in.  No meaningful dialogue exchanges, and a joke of a boss fight.  I had to try to make someone die just to see.  

 

The game hardly advanced the story, and it didn't add anything.  You could have tacked Arrival onto ME1 and the story would have been in the exact same place, and all the characters you had to have could be replaced by fill ins in the last game, Cerberus was already int he game as an evil organization in ME1, and you ended up with your ME1 squadmates.

[SlottsMachine]

It seems like people are making broad statements like "ME1 was better" and "ME3 was better."

 

 

Did you expect something else from an "overrated games" thread?

[Seboist]

ME2, I've seen people call this the best game ever and I just don't see it.

 

You're just given grocery lists of characters to recruit, not told why you need these people, what skills they bring to the table that will help you stop the collectors, just go get them.  The collectors (the reason you're even doing all of this) just become an afterthought.  Then the game freezes your travels and makes you go TIM to do one mission after you've almost forgotten about the collectors and then you're give the next list.

 

Then regardless of if the companions like you or not, or if you've even talked to them at all they all come with their hands out asking for a favor.  None of the recruitment missions or loyalty missions have anything to do with the collectors, and given how the game played out you'd have thought the danger facing the universe was Mercs because that's all you fought all game over and over.

 

Then the last mission is also overrated IMHO.  If you're a completionist that does all the missions, gets all the materials, and does all the research its anticlimactic.  All the assignments had obvious choices so it pretty much just ended up being a bunch of fighting with a speech thrown in.  No meaningful dialogue exchanges, and a joke of a boss fight.  I had to try to make someone die just to see.  

 

The game hardly advanced the story, and it didn't add anything.  You could have tacked Arrival onto ME1 and the story would have been in the exact same place, and all the characters you had to have could be replaced by fill ins in the last game, Cerberus was already int he game as an evil organization in ME1, and you ended up with your ME1 squadmates.

 

Speaks volumes of how pointless ME2 was to the series when it's pointless in the context of itself as well.

[B.A. Broska]

ME2, I've seen people call this the best game ever and I just don't see it.

 

You're just given grocery lists of characters to recruit, not told why you need these people, what skills they bring to the table that will help you stop the collectors, just go get them.  The collectors (the reason you're even doing all of this) just become an afterthought.  Then the game freezes your travels and makes you go TIM to do one mission after you've almost forgotten about the collectors and then you're give the next list.

 

Then regardless of if the companions like you or not, or if you've even talked to them at all they all come with their hands out asking for a favor.  None of the recruitment missions or loyalty missions have anything to do with the collectors, and given how the game played out you'd have thought the danger facing the universe was Mercs because that's all you fought all game over and over.

 

Then the last mission is also overrated IMHO.  If you're a completionist that does all the missions, gets all the materials, and does all the research its anticlimactic.  All the assignments had obvious choices so it pretty much just ended up being a bunch of fighting with a speech thrown in.  No meaningful dialogue exchanges, and a joke of a boss fight.  I had to try to make someone die just to see.  

 

The game hardly advanced the story, and it didn't add anything.  You could have tacked Arrival onto ME1 and the story would have been in the exact same place, and all the characters you had to have could be replaced by fill ins in the last game, Cerberus was already int he game as an evil organization in ME1, and you ended up with your ME1 squadmates.

 

I guess it is funny, when was the last Bioware game where the story outshone the companions? If you think about it Mass Effect 2 is probably the truest representation of what Bioware is about now days, in most Bioware games the story feels like an afterthought compared to the interactive biographies that follow you around, Mass Effect 2 merely dropped the pretense.

[Seraphim24]

I guess it is funny, when was the last Bioware game where the story outshone the companions? If you think about it Mass Effect 2 is probably the truest representation of what Bioware is about now days, in most Bioware games the story feels like an afterthought compared to the interactive biographies that follow you around, Mass Effect 2 merely dropped the pretense.

 

I thought Jack was pretty cool, and several other things, but the bigger problem was how the things that seeped into games like ME2 and especially DA2 gathered momentum and overtook all that made Bioware what it was then.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Knights of the Old Republic.

I am a man with 5 things he likes in a game, 1. Good Story, 2. Enjoyable Characters, 3. Accessible Gameplay, 4. Structural Presentation, 5. Sound/Visual Design.

To me, KOTOR has good story, and decent enough characters, but does not have gameplay that's accessible to me. Far from it, it feels clunky, detached, oddly floaty, like it wants to be a turn based combat rpg but was changed at the last second. The way the story is presented as well as gameplay is annoying at best, feeling like it was designed to grind all momentum to a halt at worst. And the voice acting and character models/animations are not good, say for like 3 characters, and that can get quite old quite fast.

I acknowledge that when it came out, it was revolutionary. I also acknowledge that there are people who enjoy this type of gameplay, dont care about dated graphics and voice acting, and can forgive its structural shortcomings.


I am not one of them, and I feel time and innovation have not been kind to KOTOR.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

NWN, KOTOR and DA:O are turn based RPGs.

DA:I isn't. DA2 isn't too likely.

I partially forgot how Jade Empire gameplay was. I just remember the martial arts.

[Dermain]

NWN, KOTOR and DA:O are turn based RPGs.

DA:I isn't. DA2 isn't too likely.

I partially forgot how Jade Empire gameplay was. I just remember the martial arts.

 

I had this discussion in another thread.

 

DA2 has the same exact combat system as DA:O. It is a turn based RPG.

 

All BioWare did was remove some skills and speed up the animations, which in turn speed up the encounters (unless you're playing on higher difficulties since that just adds health). 

 

I love rpgs they are my favorite genre but they are too afraid of change. Thus they usually end up with old archaic constructs translated to newer platforms. I mean look at the structure of the dialogue trees? How long have these people been using that same system for the dialogue tree.

 

*Snip*

 

Where is the contextual analysis? Where is the tracking of the previous dialogue choices?  Variable changing responses?  That is something for another day though.

 

Every single time a RPG changes something for "innovation" people complain that it isn't like "X old game that has epic levels of nostalgia for Y poster". Video games in general seem to have a love/hate relationship with innovation. Gamers want games to innovate, but they don't want them to innovate and change Z feature because they like the old way (even if the old way is far too archaic).

 

As for the dialogue trees, I'll never understand why people complain about the "dialogue wheel" in BioWare games. Sure, you only have about three or so responses, but in many cases the way the NPCs respond to each of them is generally the same. If we look at the old non-voiced PC option you had at most six different responses, and there was very little reactivity from the NPCs about each choice.

Sure, I may want to roleplay my character as a smart ass, so I choose the smart ass responses every time they show up. Unfortunately, the NPC then responds with the same response I would have received if I had chosen a different option. Are there instances where the NPC does remark on your responses? Of course, but they are few and far between.

 

If we look at the way the dialogue wheel was handled in DA2, we see that there is a recognition for the three dialogue tones. There's even extra dialogue that deals with that at times, when in DA:O there wasn't. I haven't gotten around to doing multiple playthroughs (with different characters) of DAI, but I do know that there are dialogues regarding your race than there were in DA:O.

[Dermain]

Dialog in RPGS is very controversial topic.Mostly because CRPGS came from Tabletop systems(might have also something to contribute to the reluctance to change and faith in these archaic systems) and these systems in place would put the user's imagination in charge of everything. This is how they were advertised, and the user would translate his thoughts and voices behind these pieces of dialogue. From my perspective, voiced companions and unvoiced companions are very very similar from an implementation but different from a user experience point of view. I mean they still use those trees but in one instance the user is using their imagination to fill in the gaps and in the other situation they have the resources of the voice actors.

 

Now, dragon age 2 has a very interesting dialogue system. The first time I played dragon age 2, I hated it a lot( I still do not like it) but I heard about the persistent personality system. This to me was very interesting because i haven't seen it implemented in such a way. The only problem is that resources caught up to them and they resorted to auto-dialogue. This introduced interesting mechanics where the npc would react to my character not by her dialogue but her persistent personality. That is actually very interesting. The game would be introduced with more methods to react to my character in this aspect.  The game as a whole, needed a lot of help though

 

That's one of the reasons why I love DA2. It's implementation wasn't perfect, since you were only defined by one personality instead of combinations. If only BioWare had expanded upon it instead of shelving it for DAI. 

 

There's so much potential there for fully integrating the PC into the world instead of just being a limited (where they have to fill in the reactivity) avatar for the player.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Pfft.. I'm glad I skipped DA2 and I'm playing DA:I instead. Its good parts is moved into DA:I. Also Varric, Cassandra and codex tell me everything I missed in DA2. Awful parts of DA2 are either removed or reformed for the best.

Win-win scenario!

[SlottsMachine]

Obviously the abundance of daddy issues is a problem and also the lack of development for the Collectors but I see no problem with the premise of the recruitment/loyalty missions. And shoving Collectors into those missions wouldn't be the answer, it would be just as silly as rampant daddy issues. 

[Seboist]

Obviously the abundance of daddy issues is a problem and also the lack of development for the Collectors but I see no problem with the premise of the recruitment/loyalty missions. And shoving Collectors into those missions wouldn't be the answer, it would be just as silly as rampant daddy issues. 

 

Except that a lot of game time and production cost was sunk into something that diverted the focus away of ME2's plot (such as it is) and the overarching one. ME is supposed to be about the reaper threat, not "the adventures of Shepard and friends".

 

Worse yet, the entire premise for recruiting these people is bogus to begin with. Why exactly are we recruiting these people to fight a space battle in a sector of space we have zero intelligence on? For all that they knew there was armada of Collector vessels waiting on the other side. Much like ME3's crucible plot, this half-baked premise ends up being a convenient self-fulfilling prophecy that works due to antagonist plot-induced stupidity.

 

Then there's the collectors themselves whom contribute absolutely nothing meaningful to the story. Other than being organic, they're no different than the ME1 Geth (whom should've remained the main non-reaper foe). Sure. there's "they were protheans!!!!" but given how they're mindless thralls of Harbinger, who really gives a damn?

[Fidite Nemini]

Pfft.. I'm glad I skipped DA2 and I'm playing DA:I instead. Its good parts is moved into DA:I. Also Varric, Cassandra and codex tell me everything I missed in DA2. Awful parts of DA2 are either removed or reformed for the best.

Win-win scenario!

 

 

I know you can't argue personal preferences, but imho DA2 is still a better game than DAI. At least that one I finished and replayed again multiple times (not as many times as DAO, but still) ... all that despite its flaws. I can't even be bothered to finish my first DAI playthrough because the game is simply uninteresting.