158 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

@Sifr,

 

Sure, but I could just as easily say it was actually Flemeth who shapeshifted into Fiona in order to give the Inquisitor a reason to visit Redcliffe and thus get on the path to saving the world. That makes MORE sense, actually, because while literally almost anything is simpler than time travel (and thus fits Occam's Razor), there's no clear reason for Alexius to want the Inquisitor to come to him. And we do see signs of the time bubble existing (temporal disturbances on the edge of the village, people within experiencing [or CLAIMING to experience, if you prefer] a different timeline of events, no one outside the village being aware of the Tevinter presence within Redcliffe)... the Time Bubble Theory is nothing if not extrapolated from the evidence at hand. The "Maybe It Was A Demon Thingie Theory" is pulled from thin air.

 

It's far less pulled from thin air than the Bubble theory, which needs a lot of tweaking in order to work?

 

Why would Flemeth shapeshift into Fiona and for what reason? She has a lot more important things to do and none of them really seem all that related to the Mage/Templar conflict? If Flemeth was giving history a nudge, as she is known to do, then we would know about it because she's hardly subtle when she decides to involve herself?

 

And of course Alexius has a reason for wanting the Inquisitor to come to Redcliffe, he wants to remove them from the timeline?! That's why he's doing everything in the first place, because Corypheus promised him to cure Felix if he found some way to alter the events at the Conclave, to prevent the Inquisitor from disrupting the ritual and gaining the Mark!

 

All we see are Rifts that have time-related effects, not that an actual bubble has cut Redcliffe off from the rest of the world as we know it, this suggests that the effects are merely localised around those Rifts only, not the entire town. Furthermore, aside from Fiona, who else could be said to have an alternate timeline doppleganger or potential knowledge of another concurrent timeline occuring? And of course no-one knows about the Tevinter presence inside the town, the reason we're not allowed to enter to begin with is because the entire town has been in complete lockdown, so no-one's been allowed to come or go?

 

The bubble theory still doesn't hold much water... or air in this case... when you put it under scrutiny?

[draken-heart]

@draken-heart:
 
How did she get out of Redcliffe after Alexius took it over? You're saying she somehow got to Orlais to invite the Inquisitor and then came all the way back and he never noticed she was gone?
 
As far as the agent, I don't remember the conversation with him that vividly, but I still don't see how that's an inconsistency. He was sent it in, he saw what he saw, he came back out and reported it. Where's the paradox?

There is a gate? She could have left at night, or on a job to get supplies or something, decided to split to Val Royeux and came back. She also may have been in redcliff most of the time, not with Alexius personally.

[SetecAstronomy]

Weird, I just thought it was a shape shifted Flemeth nudging us to Redcliffe.

[rapscallioness]

 I thought it was just a Doppleganger.

[Helmetto]

Spoilers, Lake Calenhad being shaped like a bunny was not a coinky-dink.

 

It was a magic bunny who did this. A magical, timetraveling, demon bunny.

 

Seriously at this point we're trying to find "What makes the most sense in a situation that makes no sense. We need to make sense of this ****." Might as well come up with the funniest **** we can think of and head canon it, rather than you know, take any of it seriously.

[draken-heart]

Weird, I just thought it was a shape shifted Flemeth nudging us to Redcliffe.

might have been. Still no time bubble in that theory however, so for them, it is pulled out of a butt. but then again, wouldn't Cassandra have noticed magic in that situation actually being used or something?

[Bullets McDeath]

@Sifr,

 

All these theories require "tweaking" to make it work. The bubble theory makes perfect sense to me, although I grant it's confusing. And I see more evidence for that than your explanation... Alexius wasn't exactly subtle either, why wouldn't he have a muahahaha moment about how he lured you there in the first place? The whole idea that it was a fake Fiona is grasping at straws... we know there was time travel involved, I think it makes much more sense to delve into how alternate timelines could result in these paradoxes than it does to jump to the completely unrelated subject of shapeshifting demon impersonators and secret ploys to trick the Inquisitor that are never mentioned by anyone ever.

 

You don't have to accept it. No need for anyone to get cross-eyed, I'm just happy to defend my thinking (up to a point). I've stated several times, as have others and I've agreed with them: "who the hell knows". If you want to keep throwing rocks at my logic, I'll keep defending it but I'm not on any crusade here. Go with whatever explanation works best for you.

[ThreeF]

I feel like the more we think about it, the more contrived we have to make our theories in order to make sense of it. =/

 

DA is not the best example of time travel writing, (or writing in general I might add)

 

I bet if we are given an opportunity in the next game to actually ask Alexius what the heck he did at Redcliffe we will earn a disapproval from him along with "how the hell should I know"  (kind of what we got with Varric and Orsino this time around)

[ThreeF]

@Sifr,

 

All these theories require "tweaking" to make it work. The bubble theory makes perfect sense to me, although I grant it's confusing. And I see more evidence for that than your explanation... Alexius wasn't exactly subtle either, why wouldn't he have a muahahaha moment about how he lured you there in the first place? The whole idea that it was a fake Fiona is grasping at straws... we know there was time travel involved, I think it makes much more sense to delve into how alternate timelines could result in these paradoxes than it does to jump to the completely unrelated subject of shapeshifting demon impersonators and secret ploys to trick the Inquisitor that are never mentioned by anyone ever.

It is kind of funny when demons start to make more sense to some. Weird things happened? Demon did it! Mind at peace.

[draken-heart]

@Sifr,
 
All these theories require "tweaking" to make it work. The bubble theory makes perfect sense to me, although I grant it's confusing. And I see more evidence for that than your explanation... Alexius wasn't exactly subtle either, why wouldn't he have a muahahaha moment about how he lured you there in the first place? The whole idea that it was a fake Fiona is grasping at straws... we know there was time travel involved, I think it makes much more sense to delve into how alternate timelines could result in these paradoxes than it does to jump to the completely unrelated subject of shapeshifting demon impersonators and secret ploys to trick the Inquisitor that are never mentioned by anyone ever.

But we do not know that the Fiona at VR is in fact Fiona. could be a doppleganger/Flemeth for all we know.

[draken-heart]

Just because some of you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad writing. The game clearly explains this, after you talk to her in Val Royeaux, Alexius uses time-travel to make it so he arrived at Redcliffe before you talked to her, so anything that happened between you two in Redcliffe was altered with his time travel. He made it so he arrived at Redcliffe before the mages seek help from the Inquisition, therefore making it so Fiona didn't go to Val Royeaux to see you. He does all of this after you talk to Fiona in Val Royeaux.
 
 
It is very clearly explained so I don't understand the confusion over the subject.

Except that does not necessarily explain it at all.

[Helmetto]

DA is not the best example of time travel writing, (or writing in general I might add)

 

I bet if we are given an opportunity in the next game to actually ask Alexius what the heck he did at Redcliffe we will earn a disapproval from him along with "how the hell should I know"  (kind of what we got with Varric and Orsino this time around)

 

That doesn't mean that I can't hold it to proper standards, as it should be held to. It's how things get better.

 

And if I get **** from a character for asking questions, especially from Varric who's shtick is to give bullshit explanations for any question that he doesn't know the answer to, you bet your ass I'm going to **** with them somehow.

[Bullets McDeath]

Could have been a doppleganger, could have been Flemeth, could have been the Lake Calenhad Bunny Monster... hell, it could have been Commander Shepard. Coulda coulda coulda

[Helmetto]

Could have been a doppleganger, could have been Flemeth, could have been the Lake Calenhad Bunny Monster... hell, it could have been Commander Shepard. Coulda coulda coulda

 

Why not all of these things?

 

Doppleganger-Flemmeth-Bunny Monster-who-is-actually-the-reincarnation-of-Commander Shepard.

[ThreeF]

That doesn't mean that I can't hold it to proper standards, as it should be held to. It's how things get better.

 

And if I get **** from a character for asking questions, especially from Varric who's shtick is to give bullshit explanations for any question that he doesn't know the answer to, you bet your ass I'm going to **** with them somehow.

Nah, of course you can, I don't think anyone said differently.

[draken-heart]

Could have been a doppleganger, could have been Flemeth, could have been the Lake Calenhad Bunny Monster... hell, it could have been Commander Shepard. Coulda coulda coulda

Could also fit in with time travel, in that a fake Fiona had to show up to push us to Redcliff because the real Fiona was retconned to remain in Redcliff.

[MikeJW]

Just because some of you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad writing. The game clearly explains this, after you talk to her in Val Royeaux, Alexius uses time-travel to make it so he arrived at Redcliffe before you talked to her, so anything that happened between you two in Redcliffe was altered with his time travel. He made it so he arrived at Redcliffe before the mages seek help from the Inquisition, therefore making it so Fiona didn't go to Val Royeaux to see you. He does all of this after you talk to Fiona in Val Royeaux.

 

 

It is very clearly explained so I don't understand the confusion over the subject.

 

No, it's bad writing. Time travel itself is confusing. Your explanation leaves a lot of unanswered questions, chief among them if he altered the past then why do we remember Fiona since the whole meeting wouldn't have happened. That's explained by the bubble theory where time travel doesnt effect the world (kinda, the more I think about it the less it seems probable so la la la) but that's not something explained in game. When I hear time travel I think something that effects the whole world, not "well, the living room goes back in time but not the pantry which is why the foods spoiled."

[JumboWheat01]

If Commander Sheppard is visiting Thedas... that world is doomed.  Well, it was nice knowing you, Ferelden, Orlais and the Free Marches.  We will never see you again.

[draken-heart]

Actually, it does. If you play the game and actually pay attention, it is all explained. No need for ridiculous fan theories or over-thinking things when the explanation is as clear as crystal and is right in front of your face. If you'd simply pay attention to the game you'd have no trouble understanding what's going on, it really isn't complicated at all.

I paid attention, it just makes no sense. If there was a time bubble, then that means that there were two Fionas, meaning that when we destroyed the "bubble" then we destroyed one Fiona, meaning that the meeting with Fiona may not have happened, unless there was a doppleganger Fiona in VR and there was no time bubble.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

 

Vivienne explains the whole thing. Fiona has dementia!

[Bullets McDeath]

If we're using Occam's Razor I think the simplest explanation is that Fiona has a twin sister who forgot to tell her she invited the Inquisitor back to Redcliffe. And then was never seen or mentioned again.

 

/thread

[draken-heart]

If we're using Occam's Razor I think the simplest explanation is that Fiona has a twin sister who forgot to tell her she invited the Inquisitor back to Redcliffe. And then was never seen or mentioned again.
 
/thread

Or the simplest answer, just plain bad writing.

[Sifr]

@Sifr,

 

All these theories require "tweaking" to make it work. The bubble theory makes perfect sense to me, although I grant it's confusing. And I see more evidence for that than your explanation... Alexius wasn't exactly subtle either, why wouldn't he have a muahahaha moment about how he lured you there in the first place? The whole idea that it was a fake Fiona is grasping at straws... we know there was time travel involved, I think it makes much more sense to delve into how alternate timelines could result in these paradoxes than it does to jump to the completely unrelated subject of shapeshifting demon impersonators and secret ploys to trick the Inquisitor that are never mentioned by anyone ever.

 

You don't have to accept it. No need for anyone to get cross-eyed, I'm just happy to defend my thinking (up to a point). I've stated several times, as have others and I've agreed with them: "who the hell knows". If you want to keep throwing rocks at my logic, I'll keep defending it but I'm not on any crusade here. Go with whatever explanation works best for you.

 

As a time travel affeciando, I'd love it to be a case of a time travel paradox here, but I'm afraid that your explanation has absolutely gaping holes in it when you try to throw in timelines and paradoxes that are also not mentioned by anyone in the game either?

 

Shapeshifting demons who can impersonate people are things that we see in the game (Envy) and the summoning and binding of spirits/demons is something mentioned numerous times by various characters. It appears in Cole's storyline, as well as something Corypheus attempts on him if you bring him along for the final battle. Furthermore, Dorian mentions that this practice is so common in Tevinter, to the point where they even use Spirits as servants. Binding spirits to do his bidding is even his specialisation! It thus falls to reason that summoning a spirit is something that Alexius would certainly know of and be capable of doing.

 

Having "Fiona" lure the Inquisitor to Redcliffe as bait to remove them from the timeline, something we know desires to do, makes a lot of sense? He knows that the Inquisitor is looking for allies to seal the Breach and getting an invitation from the Grand Enchanter and leader of the Rebel Mages, would be an invitation they would likely consider taking them up on?

 

We know that his mandate from Corypheus was to alter events at the Conclave and what better way than to remove the Inquisitor from the timeline?

 

I'm not saying that my theory is right either, but compared to a theory involving an alternate timeline doppleganger and time bubble interaction, it's a lot simpler and far less complicated an explanation. It both explains why Fiona was in Val Royeaux, why we never saw any more dopplegangers appear, as well as how this played into Alexius' larger plan to eliminate the Inquisitor.

 

(Or as other's have said... it could be just bad writing)