158 réponses à ce sujet

[ThreeF]

Einstein would be really sad.

[Bullets McDeath]

Yeah, it's been real ya'll and I appreciate most everyone keeping it light and civil, but I'm out. I give up. Where there's time travel, there's paradox. That's all I see here. How you get to shapeshifting demons, and somehow think that's a simpler explanation... granted, time travel is inherently complicated, but that's like finding a guy stabbed to death with a bloody knife right next to him and thinking "Hmm, the wound might been caused by a very large and angry bird with an incredibly sharp beak who wanted revenge on this man for some misdeed in his past and so lured him here and did this to him... that's clearly the simplest explanation, since we know that birds exist and sometimes get angry" well, I've said all I can say.

 

Please see my Pokémon tournament example.

 

Good day, sirs and madams of the internet. Good day.

[Sifr]

Is anyone a tad amused that in a series that's heavily rooted in fantasy, now we've thrown in time travel into the mix, suggesting that magic and demons are responsible for plot holes has now become the far more ludicrous explanations?

 

We are talking about a series with so much magic, we have encountered spirits who've possessed trees and recited poetry...?

 

[Helmetto]

Sadly some people can not see the answers that lie right in front of them. Let's just hope these people are not employed in any field involving forensics or criminal justice.

 

First of all, no. No, the answer is not "right there."

 

Time-travel is only confusing to people who over think the entire concept. The reason we remember meeting with Fiona is because our mind was not affected by the time-spells used by Alexius (as it is still a developing field of magic, this makes sense). It is unclear why the memory of the members of the Inquisition remains unchanged but it is most likely due to his magic not being perfected yet. It is most likely our connection to fade rifts that made it impossible for Alexius to alter our memory, but his magic also being imperfect accounts for this as well. Just because not every single detail is explained in-depth doesn't mean the writing is bad.

 

As I said before, bad thinking ≠ bad writing.

 

"Time Travel magic, where the only people who remember the previous timeline are your people in particular!"

 

Yeah, no, that's just not going to fly. You're chalking way, way too much to coincidence and convenience.

 

No, there was one Fiona. Your argument here makes no sense and is poorly presented. At least give a proper explanation of your perspective, you don't even explain your thoughts here but instead just type them out without filter. It makes for an uneducated appearance and ultimately, makes your contributions to the subject seem irrelevant. 

 

I refuse to blame BioWare because you are not smart enough to understand their writing in this part of the game. It isn't very hard to understand, and I do not have the time to simplify my explanation more than I already have to accommodate your poor understanding. 

 

Right, so here's the problem:

 

Fiona, we meet in Val Royeux. Fiona, according to Time Travel, was in Redcliffe the whole time. What happened to the Fiona of Val Royeux once she returned to Redcliffe, or the Fiona that was in Redcliffe the whole time. Did they merge together? Did the Fiona of Val Royeux get entirely retconed from reality despite the effects she had on reality while she was at Val Royeux? Or was it all blatant trickery and Fiona was just trying to get us to save her ass from a bad deal?

 

Stop acting like it's that simple. It's not.

[ThreeF]

Sadly some people can not see the answers that lie right in front of them. Let's just hope these people are not employed in any field involving forensics or criminal justice.

 

It's ok, though, everyone understands things in different way. Some choose to not understand them at all or have completely different approach to things, can't do anything about that (sometimes it's even a good thing).  Some things can be too vague to people who tend to deal with things in a precise way. It's complicated.

 

Besides blaming everything on demons is in human nature we've been doing it since forever.

[Sifr]

What's amusing is how the answer is plain as day and right in front of you people yet you can not see it. You seek a far more ridiculous, less-logical answer to your question that ultimately makes you seem like an idiot. 

 

Now then, we're all having fun here, since the explanation is unknown, I think we're allowed to just speculate and throw ideas around?

 

No-one's saying that time travel isn't the answer, just that the time bubble theory itself didn't hold up to scrutiny. I could buy that it is a Fiona from an alternate timeline, sure, but I don't buy how or why we never see any other sign of these parallel timelines collidiing within the narrative of the story?

 

As someone who is a major time travel nerd, I can completely buy into the idea that Inquisition takes place in a timeline that's been altered as a result of Alexius going back to two days after the destruction of the Conclave to take control in Redcliffe, but how and why Fiona appears in Redcliffe does not make sense, even if we take into consideration the paradoxes or whether this was an echo of something that happened in the original timeline?

 

At the moment, Alien Space Bats being responsible have just as much validity as anything else on the table?

[Kantr]

The rift in the sky powers the timetravel. Alexius can't go back to before the magic enabling time travel exists.

[draken-heart]

I can understand the time travel/"time bubble" thing, but the possibility of it being other answers makes the time travel less that clear cut.

For all I know, it was Flemeth, or an identical twin Fiona at VR.

[Steelcan]

She has dementia and forgot

[SurelyForth]

I wrote about this before, but this is how it breaks down:

 

The localized time travel thing works pretty well, especially since Redcliffe has been on lockdown.

 

1. Conclave explodes
2. Fiona is afraid that the rebelling mages will be blamed for the Conclave explosion
3. Fiona hears about Inquisition/the Herald
4. Fiona seeks the Herald for an alliance, and invites her to Redcliffe.

5. Fiona returns to Redcliffe
6. Alexius arrives at Redcliffe, and uses time travel magic to assert himself into the Redcliffe timeline between points 3 and 4- so Fiona never has a chance to leave Redcliffe in that timeline. He takes advantage of her fear to strike a bargain with the mages.
7. The Herald shows up to Redcliffe having experienced the extra-Redcliffe version of Fiona's trip to Val Royeaux and the two time streams are essentially the same from that point on. 

 

Also, to explain how Fiona can be in Val Royeaux even when the events of Redcliffe have changed: Alexius loops Redcliffe back on itself, creating a second parallel timestream in which Fiona allies with him. However, the main timeline still exists outside of Redcliffe. If Fiona went to Val Royeaux and returned to Redcliffe before Alexius looped back time, she is still part of the main timeline for as long as she was outside of Redcliffe.

 

And to explain how the Inquisition scout was in Redcliffe- the timeline doesn't re-merge when the Herald gets there, it re-merges at the point when Alexius cast his spell, which is before the Herald arrives. A single scout could have snuck into the village without being noticed, or the gates could have been re-opened for a short amount of time between the re-merge point and the rift appearing outside of the gate. 

[Sifr]

 

As demonstrated in this well-written post, you people are over thinking this. It is not as complicated as you think, and is clearly explained in the game. 

 

Which is strange, because in that well-written post that you cited, they said that time travel is inherently complicated...

[Sifr]

I am not having fun. I do not like being "attacked" because people here are too dense to understand my posts. It isn't my fault you make things too hard for yourself to understand. It is simple to me, it may not be to you, but it is to me. I fail to see why I must be attacked for having better understanding of the situation at hand than anyone else in this topic.

 

Well, the rest of us are having a nice discussion about the subject and trying to keep it relatively light-hearted.

 

No-one's attacking you, we're simply pointing out the logical flaws in some of the ideas that have been brought up (and I'll admit, even my demon bait theory isn't perfect) and discussing the nature of the various time paradoxes and the way in which to best resolve them with the plot of the game, based upon evidence presented within it?

 

For instance, the time travel causing memories to be affected is problematic, since we don't see really any cases of anyone besides Fiona demonstrating an awareness of multiple timelines that conflict within their memories? I'll grant you, there is some ambient banter both in the Hinterlands and Redcliffe about people suffering bad dreams, so that might be an effect of remembering the non-Tevinter takeover timeline, but it could be something completely unrelated entirely?

 

However, unless you are a time traveller yourself, I hardly think anyone can qualify themselves as having an expert understanding of the situation at hand, merely as decent an understanding of time travel that anyone else who's immersed themselves in that fiction can attest to?

 

But as I said before, we're all just having fun speculating on this slight plot-hole.

 

Quoth Sera, "It's all good, innit?"

[Saberchic]

Not exactly, the explanation is that once the bubble bursts and the time lines sync, this does not magically rubber-band the memories of the Inquisitor and companions. There seems to be a presumption that changes to a timeline are going to alter the memories of the Inquisitor, which does not need to be (nor does it seem to be) the case.

 

It's like if I met John Malkovich on Tuesday and he invited me to his Pokémon tournament on Thursday, and then on Wednesday, Steven Dorff travelled back in time to Monday and trapped John Malkovich in a time bubble and prevented him from leaving. Now, as far as John Malkovich knows, he's never met or invited me. But I still remember, because this change is not global, it only effects the people in the bubble.

 

So, on Thursday, I show up ready to pwn some n00bz and Malkovich is all like "whaaaat?" and Steven Dorff jumps out of nowhere and we have this totally awesome kung-fu showdown and I break every bone in his body with my Muay-Thai and that releases the time bubble.

 

Now the timelines are back in sync, but this John never experienced meeting me and so does not remember. However, I still remember meeting him, even though we now exist in this shared timeline. Essentially, he both did and did not invite me to the Pokémon tournament.

 

It's exactly like that.

 

 

Monday A:  Malkovich organizes tournament                                                       Monday B:  Dorff traps Malkovich in time bubble.

Tuesday A: Malkovich invites me to play                                                              Tuesday B: Malkovich waits helplessly in bubble.

Wednesday A: Dorff travels back to Monday, creating Monday B                       Wednesday B: More waiting

Thursday A: I burst the time bubble, syncing timelines                                        Thursday B:  Now the timelines are synced  

Friday Prime: Dance Party                 

For some reason, this explanation helped me understand what I think Bioware was trying to do. So thanks! I appreciate it.

 

I still think there are holes, but time travel will always have issues. *sigh*

[Catche Jagger]

Why did Bioware feel the need to add that one dialogue which says that Fiona wasn't in Val Royeaux? To display how silly and poorly explained the time travel element was?

[Reaver102]

I'm a fan of the theory that involves a daemon that just impersonates her.  Clearly Corphifish wanted to lure the Inquisition to Redcliff which was viewed as impervious, meanwhile Therinfall, while defensible, was not totally under his control yet.  Seems simple enough that Envy just impersonates Fiona and directs you into Alexius's trap.

[miraclemight]

Could it be that the Fiona we meet in Val Rayeaux is a Fiona using a time portal to go back in time to lure the Inquisitor to a trap? We already know that she fully sides with Corypheus if you recruit the Templars (boss fight at Haven). Could it be:

 

- In the original timeline, Alexius meets with Fiona, offers aid from Tevinter... For whatever reason, Corypheus' plan doesn't work.

 

- So they send Fiona - a familiar face - back to lure the Inquisitor to Redcliffe Castle, where they could eliminate him/her before he/she grows in power. (This is the timeline we experience). This erases the 'original timeline'. The Fiona living in our time has honestly not met the Inquisitor.

 

- This plan doesn't work any better than the first: the mages either join the Inquisition or become buried under the avalanche.

 

A bit like 'future' Lelianna and team members sending the Inquisitor and Dorian back to stop their present from ever happening.

 

I, too, admit that adding time travel to the plot felt rather unnecessary, especially to this extend. *hands out aspirin pills to everyone, because this surely is headache-inducing.

[Bigdoser]

I personally don't find it all that complicated either maybe its just me.. 

[Jestina]

I thought Vivienne explained it. Fiona has dementia.

[Ilysail]

My initial reaction was that Flemeth was impersonating her in Val Rouyeax... nudging history as she does. 

But in subsequent playthroughs the time bubble did seem to be the intended explanation.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I have a question:

 

I have set up 4 camps and my Inquisitor level is now 2 (fighting level 5). Should I set the 5th camp and go to the Redcliff Castle in the north or go to Val Royeaux first?

There is a few unclosed rifts too.

Spoiler

There is a also Dragon in the road to castle.

 

Please answer in spoiler BBcode.