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[Luqer]

After finishing the story, I kinda felt that the story as a whole is a lot less dark, violent and gritty in comparison to previous Dragon Age games. It feels as if Inquisition is the most light-hearted game in the series. 

 

This could be due to the story's primary theme of faith which lessens the Inquisitor's options for more darker decisions that reap no benefit beyond personal gratification. It seems impossible to encourage the Inquisition to become a more fanatic organization despite the fact that faith also has its dark sides.

 

On the other hand, it could also be due to the story's "Save the World" scenario. Corypheus, the primary antagonist, falls far too closely to the Chaotic Evil alignment as his evil plan ultimately boils down to the generic "Destroy the World" or "Rule the World" depending on how you see it. His vision of the world is far too chaotic and screws over way too many people. Dragon Age 2 came close to hitting the right mark in creating complex villains but ultimately, the situation was so ridiculously hopeless that you can't care about the whole damn thing at all. Heck, Varric and Hawke in DAI perfectly represent the majority attitude towards the events of DA2 which was "f*** this, I'm out". 

 

It may also be due to the player being in a position of great authority and power very early in the game unlike the Warden and Hawke who gain command of an army near the end of their respective games. The burdens of command, eh? The Warden and Hawke do have primary goals that affect the world but until then, their respective parties are a band of misfits who travel the world kicking ass and making a little money out of it sometimes.

 

There are far less opportunities to indulge in more sociopathic actions. Decapitations are no longer present. There aren't many dialogue options that make you sound like a jerk nor are there that many options to physically attack random NPC's. In Youtube, I don't think there's an "Inquisitor is a jerk" video uploaded yet.

 

The Templar and Mage war was treated like it was one bad dream. Only through the codex can you gain any insight to the trauma, the brutality and horrors of the war. In the end, you gain no hands-on experience of the war when it was at its worst as your character enters the fray as the two warring factions have come close to throwing the towel.

 

While I don't necessarily that making a story dark and gritty automatically makes it better than a light-hearted one, it just seem odd for DAI to be so light-hearted when previous Dragon Age games were darker.

 

[Fredward]

I'm pretty sure Leliana's face got skinned in the AU. That's enough grimdark for me kthnxbai.

[The Mistress]

I agree that the previous ones were a bit darker (more low fantasy) overall, but DA:I has a few things on the side and in the background that just aren't highlighted or brought to the forefront (i.e. the Ocularum and shards ordeals, Cole's past, Crestwood, etc).

I think part of it might just be a lack of 'dark' content that they had to work with without looking as though they were just adding in ridiculously overwhelming nightmare fuel. In DA:O they were able to use more grimdark motifs and ideas because the Blight opened up possibilities for terrifying things like the Broodmother and more gory whatnots. In DAII you were in a slave city that was essentially constructed as a massive blood ritual city (or something like that) in the midst of rising tensions due to a wave of blood magic use (with a ton of crazy mofos trying freaky **** because of demons and fear) and a red lyrium idol causing Meredith to go batshit.

 

In DA:I, though, I believe a lot of that 'creepy ****' is either just atmospheric and minute detail (like the charred bodies outside and around the newly-boomed Temple of Sacred Ashes) or is part of the optional questing.

[Fredward]

Do you know what's funny? Games like the Witcher get praised from some quarters because of its grimdarkness right? It's all so 'gritty' and 'realistic' but games like that go out of their way to emphasize how grimdark they're being. There's a surprising amount of grimdark in DAI but it does not get overly emphasized, it's quotidian, part of everyday life. Because it doesn't get highlighted for the player's voyeuristic pleasure though people think that it's not being grimdark or 'realistic' enough. Maybe the problem is that its being TOO realistic, that atrocities happen every day without fanfare.

[actionhero112]

Nothing really compares to broodmother disturbing. It's hard to top.

 

Though I think dragon age is too *gasp* mainstream for the kind of themes present in Origins. You're not going to get the, "You have to let me bang your boyfriend or one of you dies" thing in the future.  Like I know the Solas romance gets thrown around a lot as extremely distressing for some people, but Origin's romances were borderline ridiculous in how dark they were. I, personally, loved it.

 

But I've come to realize that I just don't think a lot of people share my views concerning dark drama. I don't have any topics that make me uncomfortable, and I have a pretty open mind. 

 

The majority of people however, seem to prefer the lighter story.

 

This is all relative, Inquisition is still dark fantasy, it's just noticeably less so than it's predecessors. 

[In Exile]

DA:O wasn't especially dark. The broodmother reveal was well done and there was some crazypants stuff going on with the artstyle in terms of random fleshy bits in unexplained areas that contradicted the lore on demons and the blight, but that was it. 

 

Nothing really compares to broodmother disturbing. It's hard to top.

 

Though I think dragon age is too *gasp* mainstream for the kind of themes present in Origins. You're not going to get the, "You have to let me bang your boyfriend or one of you dies" thing in the future.  Like I know the Solas romance gets thrown around a lot as extremely distressing for some people, but Origin's romances were borderline ridiculous in how dark they were. I, personally, loved it.

 

Well, except for the part that if you're a man romancing Morrigan is less "Bang your BF if you want to live" and "Hey, want to have some sex that will also save your life?" 

[KaiserShep]

Though I think dragon age is too *gasp* mainstream for the kind of themes present in Origins. You're not going to get the, "You have to let me bang your boyfriend or one of you dies" thing in the future.  Like I know the Solas romance gets thrown around a lot as extremely distressing for some people, but Origin's romances were borderline ridiculous in how dark they were. I, personally, loved it.

 

I didn't think that the romances in Origins were all that dark. I mean, Leliana's story has a revenge tale in it, but beyond that you can either harden her character or just make her retain a sweeter persona that leaves it behind. This girl's got nothing on Jack, that's for sure. The only one that I feel really qualifies is Alistair's, with that whole Morrigan thing. And then, if you happen to be romancing Morrigan, it's much easier, even with that mildly ominous "Dark Ritual" stuff.

[actionhero112]

DA:O wasn't especially dark. The broodmother reveal was well done and there was some crazypants stuff going on with the artstyle in terms of random fleshy bits in unexplained areas that contradicted the lore on demons and the blight, but that was it. 

 

 

Well, except for the part that if you're a man romancing Morrigan is less "Bang your BF if you want to live" and "Hey, want to have some sex that will also save your life?" 

It was extremely dark. You'll be hard pressed to find a game that throws around rape as often as Origins. I have a friend that literally can't play the City Elf origin because of it. 

 

"Oh and I'll never see you again and I'm taking your unborn child with me." That's pretty dark. 

 

Even if you don't think so, it's objectively more dark and bleak than it's sequels, especially Inquisition. 

[In Exile]

I didn't think that the romances in Origins were all that dark. I mean, Leliana's story has a revenge tale in it, but beyond that you can either harden her character or just make her retain a sweeter persona that leaves it behind. This girl's got nothing on Jack, that's for sure. The only one that I feel really qualifies is Alistair's, with that whole Morrigan thing. And then, if you happen to be romancing Morrigan, it's much easier, even with that mildly ominous "Dark Ritual" stuff.

 

If you harden her then you get to have a threesome (or foursome). She then proceeds to have almost the same attitude pretty much. I wouldn't even say the DR is mildly ominous, but YMMV on that one. 

[In Exile]

It was extremely dark. You'll be hard pressed to find a game that throws around rape as often as Origins. I have a friend that literally can't play the City Elf origin because of it. 

 

"Oh and I'll never see you again and I'm taking your unborn child with me." That's pretty dark. 

 

Even if you don't think so, it's objectively more dark and bleak than it's sequels, especially Inquisition. 

 

It's absolutely not dark at all to have a woman say "Oh, I'm having some kid and taking it away". I mean, I suppose if you actually want the kind it's a little douchy, but it's not "dark". 

 

DA:O implies rape on about two occasions - the CE origin, and with a random conversation in Denerim. DA2 implies rape on more occasions at the Gallows alone. If implied rape or express rape is your standard of darkness, then DA2 has a lot more of it. Ser Aldric is raping tranquils en masse and forcibly making women tranquil to rape them. If you allow Ser Karras to live he rapes Alain and threatens his life to keep quiet. Fenris was raped by Danarius, and Danarius brags about it. 

[KaiserShep]

If you harden her then you get to have a threesome (or foursome). She then proceeds to have almost the same attitude pretty much. I wouldn't even say the DR is mildly ominous, but YMMV on that one. 

 

Yeah, I hardened her character too. My character was a hardcore assassin and monster hunter who was on a bitter path of revenge with some world-saving on the side, so it only seemed fitting that her one and only take the same path XD. The comment Isabela makes to her in Sebastian's quest makes it even more worth it.

 

 

If you allow Ser Karras to live he rapes Alain and threatens his life to keep quiet.

 

Wow, really? Where do you get the lines that indicate this?

[actionhero112]

It's absolutely not dark at all to have a woman say "Oh, I'm having some kid and taking it away". I mean, I suppose if you actually want the kind it's a little douchy, but it's not "dark". 

 

DA:O implies rape on about two occasions - the CE origin, and with a random conversation in Denerim. DA2 implies rape on more occasions at the Gallows alone. If implied rape or express rape is your standard of darkness, then DA2 has a lot more of it. Ser Aldric is raping tranquils en masse and forcibly making women tranquil to rape them. If you allow Ser Karras to live he rapes Alain and threatens his life to keep quiet. Fenris was raped by Danarius, and Danarius brags about it. 

Normal people care about their significant others and their children they had a hand in creating. Taking both away suddenly without any choice is very emotionally taxing for normal people. This isn't even arguable. 

 

Not to mention how Broodmothers are created or the entire elven questline.

 

I'm not saying DA2 wasn't dark. I'm saying Inquisition was less dark than it's predecessors. These are completely different things.  

[In Exile]

Yeah, I hardened her character too. My character was a hardcore assassin and monster hunter who was on a bitter path of revenge with some world-saving on the side, so it only seemed fitting that her one and only take the same path XD. The comment Isabela makes to her in Sebastian's quest makes it even more worth it.

 

Wow, really? Where do you get the lines that indicate this?

 

To this day I have yet to actually figure out what - besides the in theory siding with you if you decide actually listen to the unwashed crazy dwelling hermit at the Sacred Ashes temple and the willing mistress angle - hardening Leliana actually does game-wise. 

 

In terms of Alain, you have to talk to him in Act 2 I think if you allow Ser Karas to live or you send the mages to the Circle. 

[Wolfen09]

there just wasnt enough content to do the whole creepy dark messed up thing, the closest we get are codex entries to explain stories that we dont get to play....  I like the game, and was actually pretty mad they pushed it back a month to make final adjustments... then come out with so much wasted potential... but, its still worth my 60 bucks and is addicting, so im not gonna complain too much

[In Exile]

Normal people care about their significant others and their children they had a hand in creating. Taking both away suddenly without any choice is very emotionally taxing for normal people. This isn't even arguable. I'd explain to you about paternal instincts and love but I'm coming to understand I'd have more luck explaining such concepts to my monitor. 

 

Not to mention how Broodmothers are created or the entire elven questline.

 

I'm not saying DA2 wasn't dark. I'm saying Inquisition was less dark than it's predecessors. These are completely different things.  

 

It's not about the DR not being emotionally taxing. It's not dark. Morrigan is completely honest with you about everything. It's no more dark that usual relationship drama, except it has mildly higher stakes since you've introduced a child out of the blue. I'm not debating that people can have a strong attachment to their children, but you're going to have to do some word to convince me that someone can have paternal feelings for the concept of a child they learned about and only know about in the abstract. 

 

And even if all of that were true, and even if this was one of the most emotionally serious things possible, that still doesn't make it "dark". 

 

What I'm saying is that DA:O isn't especially dark, because outside of the introduction of the broodmothers, everything is in the background and the subsequent DA games feature the same thing.

 

The only thing "darkness" wise that's missing in DA:I is sexual assault, and frankly that's a good thing. 

[actionhero112]

It's not about the DR not being emotionally taxing. It's not dark. Morrigan is completely honest with you about everything. It's no more dark that usual relationship drama, except it has mildly higher stakes since you've introduced a child out of the blue. I'm not debating that people can have a strong attachment to their children, but you're going to have to do some word to convince me that someone can have paternal feelings for the concept of a child they learned about and only know about in the abstract. 

 

And even if all of that were true, and even if this was one of the most emotionally serious things possible, that still doesn't make it "dark". 

 

What I'm saying is that DA:O isn't especially dark, because outside of the introduction of the broodmothers, everything is in the background and the subsequent DA games feature the same thing.

 

The only thing "darkness" wise that's missing in DA:I is sexual assault, and frankly that's a good thing. 

There is this thing called empathy. This allows humans to understand what another being is feeling, even if it has no personal relevance. In an immersive, role playing experience, writers try to stimulate this, empathy, in order to produce a more realistic experience. 

 

Basically, I have this capacity to feel things for people other than myself. Not everything has to be about me for it to matter.

 

It's dark because it's a story element that can be distressing to normal people. 

[DarkSun09]

Maybe there's no decapitation, but Iron Bull does this thing where he rips the enemies into tiny pieces at the end of the fight, and you can kick the chunks around when you're running through them. That's pretty neat. The scenes with the wardens slitting each other's throats were nice. That sequence through Redcliffe castle (if you go with the mages), where you come across bloody corpses of people who were tortured to death wasn't bad. The note you find in Redcliffe on how ocularium are made is quite disturbing because the revelation is so understated. I felt this quiet sense of horror wash over me upon finding out.

 

I don't know, man... when I think about it, there were plenty of gruesome imageries throughout the game... but you're right that the whole thing doesn't feel very gritty. Maybe it's because the gruesome stuff are elements of the main plot, and thus are few and spread out, while the rest of the game is so pretty and benign-looking. Even the monsters aren't that hideous or scary-looking. Darkspawns are ugly f*ckers, and maybe that's why DAO felt grittier and more brutal? In this game, you're constantly running into rams and nugs and cute little fennecs and majestic waterfalls... everything is so pretty and picturesque that it doesn't always feel like a war is taking place.  

[KaiserShep]

DA:I doesn't have enough fleshy sacks and skulls on pikes littered about. There were some Venatori sacrificial port-o-altars though.

[Han Shot First]

It's absolutely not dark at all to have a woman say "Oh, I'm having some kid and taking it away". I mean, I suppose if you actually want the kind it's a little douchy, but it's not "dark". 

 

DA:O implies rape on about two occasions - the CE origin, and with a random conversation in Denerim. DA2 implies rape on more occasions at the Gallows alone. If implied rape or express rape is your standard of darkness, then DA2 has a lot more of it. Ser Aldric is raping tranquils en masse and forcibly making women tranquil to rape them. If you allow Ser Karras to live he rapes Alain and threatens his life to keep quiet. Fenris was raped by Danarius, and Danarius brags about it. 

 

Also it's implied both in vanilla DA:O and in Leliana's Song that she was raped. The two versions of the story differ on some details (whether the villains were Orlesian or Ferelden) but that element is present in both versions.

[Ieldra]

So true, OP, so true.

 

And it isn't even about the "horror" - I always found that over-the-top.

 

I thrive on those things in stories that tend to make people uncomfortable without being outright evil, such as Morrigan's ritual and parts of her romance. And on those which are acceptable but not exactly mainstream, like the three/foursome you could have in the Pearl.

 

And I also thrive on dealing in an appropriate manner with the everyday evils of the world, such as in DAO's CE origin. I recall how satisfying it felt to tell Vaughn where to stick his 40 sovereigns in Arl Howe's dungeon, and kill him.

 

I can count moments like these in games on one hand, and I deeply regret that DA has become too mainstream to include them any longer. It's almost as if they scoured the world of anything that could even remotely be called both "uncomfortable" and "unnecessary for the plot or or the story's themes". In fact, thinking about it, I think that's exactly what happened. And adding all that PC stuff about sexuality - to which I don't object as such - added to that impression.

 

The result? At times, the world feels "stale, dry, lifeless, boring" (Varric). I'll add "clean", "tame" and "safe". Not always, of course. The main plot is intense enough, and the companions feel real for the most part. But often enough to impact the overall impression.

[zeypher]

So true, OP, so true.

 

And it isn't even about the "horror" - I always found that over-the-top.

 

I thrive on those things in stories that tend to make people uncomfortable without being outright evil, such as Morrigan's ritual and parts of her romance. And on those which are acceptable but not exactly mainstream, like the three/foursome you could have in the Pearl.

 

And I also thrive on dealing in an appropriate manner with the everyday evils of the world, such as in DAO's CE origin. I recall how satisfying it felt to tell Vaughn where to stick his 40 sovereigns in Arl Howe's dungeon, and kill him.

 

I can count moments like these in games on one hand, and I deeply regret that DA has become too mainstream to include them any longer. It's almost as if they scoured the world of anything that could even remotely be called both "uncomfortable" and "unnecessary for the plot or or the story's themes". In fact, thinking about it, I think that's exactly what happened. And adding all that PC stuff about sexuality - to which I don't object as such - added to that impression.

 

The result? At times, the world feels "stale, dry, lifeless, boring" (Varric). I'll add "clean", "tame" and "safe". Not always, of course. The main plot is intense enough, and the companions feel real for the most part. But often enough to impact the overall impression.

THIS!! it is by far one my biggest pet peeve in this gamer. Its too sanitized, i mean when fable is darker than you series you know something is wrong. It does not feel what dragon age as a setting started out as, feels something different.

[Helmetto]

THIS!! it is by far one my biggest pet peeve in this gamer. Its too sanitized, i mean when fable is darker than you series you know something is wrong. It does not feel what dragon age as a setting started out as, feels something different.

 

Lol, Fable.

 

I agree that DAI is a lot softer than it should be. It is a game where there are two wars going on, and none of them are really, actually, genuinely used. Everybody is written as crazy and "deserves to be slaughtered", dehumanized to a fault. A templar would tell you that they fight/kill because they have a duty, but really, they're afraid to lose whatever they have left in a world gone mad; their brothers die all around them, often for petty reasons, and sometimes for them. Mages are much the same in that regard. 

 

Dragon Age does something right, in that it admits that war is bad and gets people killed, but it fails to understand why war is fought if it is so terrible. It fails to understand why some men are so enthused to fight in a place where there are no rules, where men are encouraged to fight and kill when all their lives they are told not to. It fails to see why the Warden's tale is so inspiring - that, in admist the war and chaos, the vile blood and mud the covered Fereldan, one spark of hope - the Warden - shone so bright in contrast to its surroundings that it gathered even the most cynical of people to fight against a threat most people would consider impossible to conquer without the Grey Warden Order. Of course, your warden could've been a complete jerk, but that doesn't change the fact that you, the protagonist, have been plunged into a complete nightmare and hellhole, and yet still retained their humanity.

 

DAI is one sided and tastes like cardboard. It not only has one war, but two wars going on. We have books explaining how they came to be, but no insight on why anybody would fight them, would believe in them, or even shows any heroism. Everybody is a selfish bastard with their own agenda, forcing their beliefs onto others as they will. Briala and Celene both chose duty over love, claiming to fight/speak for a people that neither properly understand. Gaspard claims to fight for the best interest of Orlais, but he fights for old legacy and not the greatness Orlais can be. Rhys made the "tie-breaker vote" for the war despite knowing what it would entail. Fiona sold her people to Tevinter, returning them to the slavery that half of them laid down their lives to break free from, that many of her people fought against, some not even willingly. The Seekers placed their faith in Lord Seeker Lucius, who sent them one by one to their deaths because he believed that the world should be purged. The Templars, similarly, in Samson, who felt betrayed and used by the Chantry and found purpose in Cory, when the duty of his people for the majority of their lives strove to protect the mages from themselves, not serve the Chantry.

 

Never, ever do we get someone who believes their cause - the cause of the war - just yet retains enough of their humanity to not be a complete fuckwit about it. We don't get people who geniunely believe something, not believe it because they're angry/bitter/whatever about it, and change their minds slowly or surely. All we get are duty bound individuals who refuse to see the third option. We get people who are just blind leading the blind. They all selfishly decide what is best for their people. Our companions are no different, of course, and neither is our Inquisitor. Yet the game tries to convince us that we are doing what is right, when we are no different than those who caused the war, when we have no right what is best to decide what is best for the world.

 

Of course, we can't go around individually asking every individual what they want. We can't save every person, we can't stop all the fighting, we can't make everybody sit at the table. We must make tough decisions that mean that one side lives, the other dies. We must choose between an alliance and our own people at times, even. We are forced to choose, whether we want to or not, between two choices that may not even appeal to us. This is not a fault. The fault is, why aren't we allowed to try?

 

Why can't we try to save everybody, even if it means we will fail? Why can't we try and save the mages and templars, even if it means we fail? Why couldn't we have been the ones to sacrifice our lives at Adamant Fortress, saving both Hawke and the Warden with us? We were certainly allowed to try in Dragon Age Origins, and understandably this was absent in Dragon Age 2. But in a world torn asunder, one of the options should be to attempt to sew it back together, not just picking one side of the tear or the other. I'm not saying it should work. There are many reasons why it shouldn't. But don't deny that there was always, always, always a third option, and I believe that DAI suffered for it.

 

So, yes, DAI is not dark, violent, or gritty enough. It doesn't have anything in it that would contrast it. Everybody's bad or just as bad. It's, you know, not terrible, but when everybody is wrong including your own PC, and nobody is given the option to try and do the right thing, you just can't get too well in darkness, violence, or grittiness. It doesn't work to have corpses when you spend 90% of the game making them and have 0 opportunity not to. It just doesn't work like that.

 

Yeah. Kinda not entirely happy with DAI. =/

[Ieldra]

@Helmetto:

Isn't the scenario where you try to get everyone to work together in Orlais exactly the kind of thing whose absence you criticize? Also, I don't think that's even remotely what most of the others in this thread are criticizing. The point was that DAI feels sanitized.

[Helmetto]

@Helmetto:

Isn't the scenario where you try to get everyone to work together in Orlais exactly the kind of thing whose absence you criticize? Also, I don't think that's even remotely what most of the others in this thread are criticizing. The point was that DAI feels sanitized.

If by "getting everybody to work together" you mean "as SOON as you turn your back they're back to killing each other", then no. As much as I liked that quest, everybody you had to choose from was an *******, and in two scenarios, you had to let someone die. Your third...fourth...FIFTH option isn't to fix Orlais. Your option is literally, "All of you shut the hell up and get to ****** work, you're ALL my bitches now."

 

And I'm saying that the reason why it feels sanitized is because there's just a huge lack of human goodness in everybody that there's nothing to contrast it with. I'm not saying you need good for evil, its just, when everybody is evil its hard to really perceive anything as depraved.

[Shelidon]

Well, except for the part that if you're a man romancing Morrigan is less "Bang your BF if you want to live" and "Hey, want to have some sex that will also save your life?"

Yes.
And I will have your baby that will carry the soul of an old god, possibly gone mad with corruption.
And this is the reason I've been here all along.
Oh, and I was almost forgetting: you'll never see me again.

Tell me that's not dark.