439 réponses à ce sujet

[AutumnWitch]

I like that is was less dark TBO.  Dark does not equate to good unless it makes sense.

[Nykara]

I actually think it is intended for Dragon Age Inquisition to not be as dark as the others plot wise to be honest.

There are a lot of darker elements to it though. Depending on choices a lot of the main factions are all but wiped out - mages, Templars and the wardens for starters. Over all though I think that Inquisition is in fact intended for the world state over all to not be as dark now that the Inquisition is there to help them. For the entire world it is a less darker time then previous games ( blight, warring races post blight etc ). All the work you have done in the past, has paid off for making a slightly less dark world - for a time. I am pretty sure those in the factions that have been all but wiped out would be in a pretty dark place right about now. At Skyhold however the Inquisitor is giving the people there hope for a better future so the general atmosphere around Skyhold itself is a bit more upbeat. All those people there are working for you as opposed to things like DA:2 where at every turn someone wants to take Hawke down. The Inquisitor is surrounded by people to protect her, she is safe at Skyhold unlike Origins in the camp and DA:2 in the city - that gives a less dark feel over all to those surrounding your character but that doesn't make events out in the world any less dark. ( My poor grey wardens I so need to figure out how to not get them killed with my next play through ).

[Degs29]

I like dark and gritty, but I personally think Bioware is too politically correct to take it where I'd like them to go.  That's what CDProjekt Red is for.  I think Inquisition is just fine the way it is.

[Aren]

And then you find out none of that was true.

The woman can become you wife and the child loses the god soul and becomes more normal.

Yes but that is pretty metagaming and it's legit if you want to play with the Crystal ball....

But from a roleplayng perspective  well................

[abisha]

also wanna add that people like me, having dyslexia can't pull out any emotional value out of words most of us can read just fine.

so putting stuff in codex have zero value, bet most "normal" people do not bother with reading Codex's.

guess only bookworms value those.

[Kmaru]

I can count moments like these in games on one hand... and I deeply regret that DA has become too mainstream to include them any longer. It's almost as if they scoured the world of anything that could even remotely be called both "uncomfortable" and "unnecessary for the plot or or the story's themes". 

 

The result? At times, the world feels "stale, dry, lifeless, boring" (Varric). I'll add "clean", "tame" and "safe".

 

 

Even if Inquisition is a great game, it is clear that everything we can "call disturbing" out of the box were sanitized if i can borrow the expression to zeypher. Was i afraid not at all. For a game that is supposed to be scary it was not. We were supposed to face fear, demons, horror but the environment was so clean, the templar design (it seems everybody tried to save the mages) is close to the red lyrium, close to quartz.

 

DA: Origin was a raw dark world, the choices were surprising, Just the fact that u are aware of the great sacrifice of ur warden, and the fact that he/she will probably have a short life if not killed by the archidemon. Morrigan was not with u by her own will, her mother forced her to join u. Allistair was also a warden with the same dark fate. Zevran if saved, will be a fugitive. Sten is a bloody murderer that has killed an entire familly including kids, Oghren is a drunk berserker, Wynne too has a tragic story... 

The battlefield also was corrupted, dirty, dark, blood on the field, rotting corpse, the ambiance was dark too, not colorful, the brothels, bars, fights, the elven ghettos, the epidemics, the amount of people that sold their souls to demons.

 

I think we can write a book with why Inquisition cannot be called a dark world. And why in that way Origin is one of the greatest dark rpg game.

 

To conclude yes Inquisition was sanitized, but in the worst way possible, cause Thedas tastes different now.

[Iakus]

Was Inquisition advertised as being dark, disturbing, or have horror elements?

[papercut_ninja]

Was Inquisition advertised as being dark, disturbing, or have horror elements?

 

Individual expectations based on subjective experiences from previous games, should in most cases as far as DA:I is concerned, be considered as a downright full disclosure advertisement of content...

[Kmaru]

Individual expectations based on subjective experiences from previous games, should in most cases as far as DA:I is concerned, be considered as a downright full disclosure advertisement of content...

 agree.

It's the atmosphere they sold with the first opus. we loved it, we were expecting to have similar atmosphere specially when u watch the several videos released before the game. It's like bying a ticket to watch the third opus of a horror movie and once inside watching a great thriller movie. Im trully afraid of what BIOWARE may deliver with the next dragon age. It looks like they will come with a more clean polish game, still great rpg, but definetly not dark at all.

 

The sinopsis of dragon age is dark, let's not forgot that. 

[Arisugawa]

 

Even if Inquisition is a great game, it is clear that everything we can "call disturbing" out of the box were sanitized if i can borrow the expression to zeypher. Was i afraid not at all. For a game that is supposed to be scary it was not. We were supposed to face fear, demons, horror but the environment was so clean, the templar design (it seems everybody tried to save the mages) is close to the red lyrium, close to quartz.

 

DA: Origin was a raw dark world, the choices were surprising, Just the fact that u are aware of the great sacrifice of ur warden, and the fact that he/she will probably have a short life if not killed by the archidemon. Morrigan was not with u by her own will, her mother forced her to join u. Allistair was also a warden with the same dark fate. Zevran if saved, will be a fugitive. Sten is a bloody murderer that has killed an entire familly including kids, Oghren is a drunk berserker, Wynne too has a tragic story... 

The battlefield also was corrupted, dirty, dark, blood on the field, rotting corpse, the ambiance was dark too, not colorful, the brothels, bars, fights, the elven ghettos, the epidemics, the amount of people that sold their souls to demons.

 

I think we can write a book with why Inquisition cannot be called a dark world. And why in that way Origin is one of the greatest dark rpg game.

 

To conclude yes Inquisition was sanitized, but in the worst way possible, cause Thedas tastes different now.

 

 

Well...we can certainly reverse the tables on this:

 

1) Iron Bull is a soldier who saw far too much death and betrayal in his time, and was essentially sent on a long vacation because that was the best solution the re-educators could come up with. And based on your actions, he is either going to lose his mercenary company and become a listless cog in the great Qunari machine, or lose his place within the Qun and live forever with the regret that he was somewhat responsible for the deaths of his fellow Qunari on the dreadnought, and that everyone he knew and cared for back home will consider him a traitor to the cause.

 

2) Blackwall sold out the soldiers loyal to him for gold, allowing most of them to pay the price of his greed. It is only when his former second-in-command is facing the hangman's noose that he finally takes a stand, but by this point, many of his other men are either dead or incarcerated.

 

3) Varric, despite his happy-go-lucky demeanor, is tormented by the fact this his actions have either directly or indirectly contributed to all of the problems the Inquisition is currently facing: Meredith went beserk largely due to lyrium idol that he helped discover, and her continuing restrictions on magic eventually led to Anders going even more desperate than he might have been otherwise; Corpyheus is free due to him tracking down the Carta and bringing Hawke to the Vinnmark fortress, and while Corpyheus may have eventually gone free if the seals degraded completely they were still intact at the time he and Hawke were there; the enemy has access to Red Lyrium because he gave the location of the Thaig to his girlfriend, and she in turn unknowingly leaked it to the enemy.

 

4) Solas is very much responsible for a great deal of the problems of the world, from allowing Corypheus to use an ancient elven artifact to whatever happened long ago before the fall of Arlathan. And he is desperately trying to make things better, and consistently failing. At the story's conclusion, he has lost his orb and the world has suffered immensely due to yet another poor decision he made.

 

5) Vivienne was so traumatized by her Harrowing that she is unable to see what she has become. She views the world in terms that demand she have control over it, and cannot see that she has become so corrupted by playing the Great Game of Orlais that she cannot envision that everyone else is not playing some variation of it. Her desire to see the Circles restored, with herself at their pinnacle, is largely driven by her own fear of irrelevancy, the fear that the world has passed her by and that everything she had fought so hard to control is gone, leaving her with nothing but her reputation to sustain her. Restoring the Circles gives her legitimacy and power within them, and she is terrified of a world without having that position.

 

6) Sera has been so warped by her upbringing that cannot see the harm it has done to her. While she is able to see through the cracks, and tries desperately to view everything in terms of equality without race or position getting in the way, nonetheless she views her elven heritage as a curse and burden she has to endure rather than something to accept or acknowledge. She has blinded herself to the possibility that anything from the ancient empire of her ancestors is worth retaining or remembering, choosing instead to harp on its shortcomings and decry that empire of being delusional. 

 

7) Cassandra is so obsessed with being a loyal, true servant of the Maker that it has blinded her to her own hypocrisy. When she discovers that an Elven Herald may not believe in the Maker, she casually asks, "is there no room in your heart for one more (god)," and is shocked that the ancient elves would build something like the Temple of Mythal because it is based, on her word, "nonsense." Does she recognize that Elven religion precedes Andraste and thus the Maker had not yet revealed himself, or just she know this and yet will judge all of the Elvhanen according to modern beliefs? Regardless, she doesn't see the inherent insult in asking the Elvish Inquisitor to let just one more god into her/his heart, but yet would be insulted beyond words if the same request was made of her. She knows what she wants the Chantry to be, but doesn't want to be the one to have the responsibility. She hides all of this behind a facade of uncertainty, that she does not know the Maker's will, but like Leliana she is certain that she knows what the Maker desires but her uncertainty lies with how to best spread it and enforce it.

 

8) Cole is a murdering, twisted thing that has the convenient ability to forget the violence he commits. He freely admits this when asked how a Spirit of Compassion can be an assassin - he deals with it by forgetting the hurt he causes. He is kept in check largely by the will of those around him, and while his Compassionate nature is trying hard to be dominant, the slow slide into becoming a Demon is ever there. If Solas is correct, and Spirits cannot survive the baser natures of the real world intact for long, it is merely a matter of when and not if this occurs, the longer he remains outside of the Fade.

 

The companions of Inquisition have serious issues and flaws. Blackwall is no less dark than Sten, and perhaps even more so since he doesn't have the easy redemption of simply getting back his sword and suddenly his honor is regained. Vivienne is no less dark than Wynne, and in my opinion she is considerably darker than Wynne because Vivienne has ambition and isn't afraid to crush others to get in her way while Wynne was by and large content to remain someone who supported others.

 

I can continue this for any part of the entire trilogy that you'd like me to. Everything is a matter of perspective.

[frogkisser]

Well...we can certainly reverse the tables on this:

 

1) Iron Bull is a soldier who saw far too much death and betrayal in his time, and was essentially sent on a long vacation because that was the best solution the re-educators could come up with. And based on your actions, he is either going to lose his mercenary company and become a listless cog in the great Qunari machine, or lose his place within the Qun and live forever with the regret that he was somewhat responsible for the deaths of his fellow Qunari on the dreadnought, and that everyone he knew and cared for back home will consider him a traitor to the cause.

 

2) Blackwall sold out the soldiers loyal to him for gold, allowing most of them to pay the price of his greed. It is only when his former second-in-command is facing the hangman's noose that he finally takes a stand, but by this point, many of his other men are either dead or incarcerated.

 

3) Varric, despite his happy-go-lucky demeanor, is tormented by the fact this his actions have either directly or indirectly contributed to all of the problems the Inquisition is currently facing: Meredith went beserk largely due to lyrium idol that he helped discover, and her continuing restrictions on magic eventually led to Anders going even more desperate than he might have been otherwise; Corpyheus is free due to him tracking down the Carta and bringing Hawke to the Vinnmark fortress, and while Corpyheus may have eventually gone free if the seals degraded completely they were still intact at the time he and Hawke were there; the enemy has access to Red Lyrium because he gave the location of the Thaig to his girlfriend, and she in turn unknowingly leaked it to the enemy.

 

4) Solas is very much responsible for a great deal of the problems of the world, from allowing Corypheus to use an ancient elven artifact to whatever happened long ago before the fall of Arlathan. And he is desperately trying to make things better, and consistently failing. At the story's conclusion, he has lost his orb and the world has suffered immensely due to yet another poor decision he made.

 

5) Vivienne was so traumatized by her Harrowing that she is unable to see what she has become. She views the world in terms that demand she have control over it, and cannot see that she has become so corrupted by playing the Great Game of Orlais that she cannot envision that everyone else is not playing some variation of it. Her desire to see the Circles restored, with herself at their pinnacle, is largely driven by her own fear of irrelevancy, the fear that the world has passed her by and that everything she had fought so hard to control is gone, leaving her with nothing but her reputation to sustain her. Restoring the Circles gives her legitimacy and power within them, and she is terrified of a world without having that position.

 

6) Sera has been so warped by her upbringing that cannot see the harm it has done to her. While she is able to see through the cracks, and tries desperately to view everything in terms of equality without race or position getting in the way, nonetheless she views her elven heritage as a curse and burden she has to endure rather than something to accept or acknowledge. She has blinded herself to the possibility that anything from the ancient empire of her ancestors is worth retaining or remembering, choosing instead to harp on its shortcomings and decry that empire of being delusional. 

 

7) Cassandra is so obsessed with being a loyal, true servant of the Maker that it has blinded her to her own hypocrisy. When she discovers that an Elven Herald may not believe in the Maker, she casually asks, "is there no room in your heart for one more (god)," and is shocked that the ancient elves would build something like the Temple of Mythal because it is based, on her word, "nonsense." Does she recognize that Elven religion precedes Andraste and thus the Maker had not yet revealed himself, or just she know this and yet will judge all of the Elvhanen according to modern beliefs? Regardless, she doesn't see the inherent insult in asking the Elvish Inquisitor to let just one more god into her/his heart, but yet would be insulted beyond words if the same request was made of her. She knows what she wants the Chantry to be, but doesn't want to be the one to have the responsibility. She hides all of this behind a facade of uncertainty, that she does not know the Maker's will, but like Leliana she is certain that she knows what the Maker desires but her uncertainty lies with how to best spread it and enforce it.

 

8) Cole is a murdering, twisted thing that has the convenient ability to forget the violence he commits. He freely admits this when asked how a Spirit of Compassion can be an assassin - he deals with it by forgetting the hurt he causes. He is kept in check largely by the will of those around him, and while his Compassionate nature is trying hard to be dominant, the slow slide into becoming a Demon is ever there. If Solas is correct, and Spirits cannot survive the baser natures of the real world intact for long, it is merely a matter of when and not if this occurs, the longer he remains outside of the Fade.

 

The companions of Inquisition have serious issues and flaws. Blackwall is no less dark than Sten, and perhaps even more so since he doesn't have the easy redemption of simply getting back his sword and suddenly his honor is regained. Vivienne is no less dark than Wynne, and in my opinion she is considerably darker than Wynne because Vivienne has ambition and isn't afraid to crush others to get in her way while Wynne was by and large content to remain someone who supported others.

 

I can continue this for any part of the entire trilogy that you'd like me to. Everything is a matter of perspective.

The companions' back stories ARE dark, no argument there.  Their presentation comes across as less dark - at least this is what I as a player felt. Many of the personal quests like Cassandra and the revelation with the Seekers or Blackwall's admission in Val Royeux were rather lessened by the beautiful colors of the setting. 

 

I'm joking, partially. I think there is plenty of dark content in DAI - that we as players don't react to it because we're desensitized is less true than the fact that the game presents all these either as something that happened in the past, and hence little relevance is attached to it, or the atmosphere, the music, the design is rather light-hearted as compared to the previous games. There's no need to keep rehashing what worked in one game to make another game dark, that is true : but what Inquisition DOES focus on, the main quest etc, is considerably more optimistic in tone than DAII or DA:O.  In Origins, you felt pretty damn hopeless until the very end of the game, what with Riordan dying, then knowing that another Warden may yet die. DAII kept me on tinterhooks until the end of the end through all of its misdirection. Never, never did Inquisition present me with this feeling of hopelessness and loss and sadness (except perhaps when I killed those nugs and some companions disapproved.)

[Giantdeathrobot]

Truth be told, I've never seen The Witcher games as really dark (as in depressing, hopeless, and so forth). It has more assholes in it than Dragon Age and the monsters are maybe more omnipresent, but apart from that it never seemed outstandingly grimdark in a 40K way or just horrifying in a Lovecraft way. In fact I've been more disturbed by the Broodmother and red Lyrium than by anything I can remember in The Witcher.

 

I mean, sure it has thematics of rape, war, pogroms and insidious monsters, but for each of these it also has dryads who want to have sex, werewolves trying to be Batman, a city of cliché jolly dwarves and lesbomancy jokes. I feel that people really overstate how dark The Witcher is, and sometimes it is in some sort of weird competition mentality where darker = always better.

 

Not saying it's a bad thing, maturity is good, but I wouldn't want that fantasy settings to engage in a tug of war of who is the most grimdark. ''Oh this game has rape, well we got 10 rapes and 10 murders! Oh, well in that case we got an entire city being raped and then flayed and then tortured and then dismembered and then eaten alive and then forced to listen to Nickleback!'' and then the audience simply becomes desensitized to it all. 

 

Inquisition is dark enough, but I guess Bioware should have made it more up front and center. It's funny, people often accuses writers (not just Bioware's by any means) of being too in-your-face with dark or sad themes, but when they hide said themes better they are then accused of sanitizing the game. 

[Arisugawa]

The companions' back stories ARE dark, no argument there.  Their presentation comes across as less dark - at least this is what I as a player felt. Many of the personal quests like Cassandra and the revelation with the Seekers or Blackwall's admission in Val Royeux were rather lessened by the beautiful colors of the setting. 

 

I'm joking, partially. I think there is plenty of dark content in DAI - that we as players don't react to it because we're desensitized is less true than the fact that the game presents all these either as something that happened in the past, and hence little relevance is attached to it, or the atmosphere, the music, the design is rather light-hearted as compared to the previous games. There's no need to keep rehashing what worked in one game to make another game dark, that is true : but what Inquisition DOES focus on, the main quest etc, is considerably more optimistic in tone than DAII or DA:O.  In Origins, you felt pretty damn hopeless until the very end of the game, what with Riordan dying, then knowing that another Warden may yet die. DAII kept me on tinterhooks until the end of the end through all of its misdirection. Never, never did Inquisition present me with this feeling of hopelessness and loss and sadness (except perhaps when I killed those nugs and some companions disapproved.)

 

I disagree with this.

 

I felt pretty hopeful in Origins.

 

I made peace between the warring factions of the Brecilian Forest with less bloodshed than I'd anticipated. The fact that I made peace at all is very hopeful, as opposed to having to pick one side.

I found the Temple of Sacred Ashes, which everyone else said was a myth.

I found Branka (and Caradin, no less) in the Deep Roads, when pretty much everyone assumed she was dead. I should mention that I survived the Deep Roads, especially past Bownammer, where everyone said I couldn't make it to.

I kept Irving and the other members of the Circle's hierarchy alive, prompting Gregoir to retract his request for the Rite of Annulment.

 

And for its conclusion, three Wardens managed to stop the entire Blight. The Blight itself, which can take decades or longer to be wiped out, was stopped at the first engagement where the Archdemon had revealed itself.

 

The only thing that was ever in question was whether or not my Warden would die, and that trepidation did come until the final act when Riordan finally spills the beans on the Wardens' necessity. I went the majority of the game without it.

 

Everything about Origins is hopeful and optimistic. It's about hope constantly defying the odds.

[frogkisser]

I disagree with this.

 

I felt pretty hopeful in Origins.

 

I made peace between the warring factions of the Brecilian Forest with less bloodshed than I'd anticipated. The fact that I made peace at all is very hopeful, as opposed to having to pick one side.

I found the Temple of Sacred Ashes, which everyone else said was a myth.

I found Branka (and Caradin, no less) in the Deep Roads, when pretty much everyone assumed she was dead. I should mention that I survived the Deep Roads, especially past Bownammer, where everyone said I couldn't make it to.

I kept Irving and the other members of the Circle's hierarchy alive, prompting Gregoir to retract his request for the Rite of Annulment.

 

And for its conclusion, three Wardens managed to stop the entire Blight. The Blight itself, which can take decades or longer to be wiped out, was stopped at the first engagement where the Archdemon had revealed itself.

 

The only thing that was ever in question was whether or not my Warden would die, and that trepidation did come until the final act when Riordan finally spills the beans on the Wardens' necessity. I went the majority of the game without it.

 

Everything about Origins is hopeful and optimistic. It's about hope constantly defying the odds.

Like you said, a matter of perspective. Somehow after each big quest in DA:O, I just felt like less hopeful than worried that the next task would be harder and grimmer. Of course by the time you get to Denerim you feel pretty good about yourself, only to have your ass handed back to you that, well, even all you've gathered now might not be enough to stop the Blight and live to see it. 

 

With Zathrian and the Lady, for example, at no point did I expect to be forced to side with either party, and I believe there's a way to get them to coexist (?) which I never managed. I left feeling rather more troubled than when I came to the Dalish. In Inquisition, for example with the mages in Redcliffe, I always found myself more concerned with 'how the heck did I manage time travel / who did this?' rather than why Cassandra had red crystals growing out of her nostrils. 

 

Semantics and perspective. I agree all stories are in effect equally dark - Inquisition can arguably be seen as the heaviest since the whole world is threatened, not just Ferelden or Kirkwall. My problem is presentation and the greater focus on 'oooh silverite x2' and mundane rpg mechanics rather than thought-provoking choices and chilling cutscenes. 

[Seraphim24]

Truth be told, I've never seen The Witcher games as really dark (as in depressing, hopeless, and so forth). It has more assholes in it than Dragon Age and the monsters are maybe more omnipresent, but apart from that it never seemed outstandingly grimdark in a 40K way or just horrifying in a Lovecraft way. In fact I've been more disturbed by the Broodmother and red Lyrium than by anything I can remember in The Witcher.

 

I mean, sure it has thematics of rape, war, pogroms and insidious monsters, but for each of these it also has dryads who want to have sex, werewolves trying to be Batman, a city of cliché jolly dwarves and lesbomancy jokes. I feel that people really overstate how dark The Witcher is, and sometimes it is in some sort of weird competition mentality where darker = always better.

 

I think that's what makes them grimdark to me though, sex seems more terrifying to most people than some kind of undulating Lovecraft horror.I was even thinking maybe Lovecraft's great horrors and madnesses and such are just how he perceives female biology and sexuality.

 

By the same token I think Mass Effect and Frozen are competitive with DA in the "dark, grim" because of their focus on relationships. DA has some focus on relationships, but it also just tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of sarcasm/jokes/action hero stuff like any 10 year old would enjoy. 

 

Which is a long way of saying, I suspect that's precisely why Witcher comes off more dark to me.

[Arisugawa]

Semantics and perspective. I agree all stories are in effect equally dark - Inquisition can arguably be seen as the heaviest since the whole world is threatened, not just Ferelden or Kirkwall. My problem is presentation and the greater focus on 'oooh silverite x2' and mundane rpg mechanics rather than thought-provoking choices and chilling cutscenes. 

 

It always fascinates me how players can play the same game and have vastly different views.

 

We can say that Inquisition has you looking for crafting materials, but I cannot tell you how many times I kept going to different vendors hoping that the next tier of crystal for Shale was finally available. Or how often I circled the map of Ferelden hoping to get the random event that gets you the Starmetal deposit for the Starfang weapon.

 

These are exactly the same thing.

 

And I'm not certain what you're referring to by chilling cutscenes. The only thing that stands out to me from Origins is the initial reveal of the Broodmother, and that was made chilling not by the reveal itself but rather by Hespith's off-screen narration. 

[In Exile]

It always fascinates me how players can play the same game and have vastly different views.

We can say that Inquisition has you looking for crafting materials, but I cannot tell you how many times I kept going to different vendors hoping that the next tier of crystal for Shale was finally available. Or how often I circled the map of Ferelden hoping to get the random event that gets you the Starmetal deposit for the Starfang weapon.

These are exactly the same thing.

And I'm not certain what you're referring to by chilling cutscenes. The only thing that stands out to me from Origins is the initial reveal of the Broodmother, and that was made chilling not by the reveal itself but rather by Hespith's off-screen narration.

I have to distinguish between Hespith's own reveal (which was haunting) and the brood mother reveal itself (which I thought was so ridiculous I actually burst out laughing).

[Andres Hendrix]

The grittiest game Bioware ever made was ME2 (when the Collectors were turning people into sludge to make the human reaper). The game was very neon noir in feel e.g. Omega. Even ME1 had a drab kind of sci-fi noir feel. Actually, I would compare Mass Effect 1 with Conrad's "The Heart of Darkness" Shepard (Marlow) hunts Saren (Kurtz) while witnessing a discovered madness (colonization) in the world (universe) unfolding around him (the Reapers and Indoctrination).There is something about the new Bioware that is more Hollywood than say Asimovian. ME3 was like a transformers movie, with an ending pilfered from Deus Ex. In terms of DA: DA:O and II were much Darker on a personal level than DA:I. The way Hawke's mother died, or finding out how the Broodmothers were made were both incredibly dark. Point to such an instance in DA:I?

 

It seems like Bioware lacks the writers who would want to write a Witcher type of game, or a game reminiscent of Cook's "Black Company" etc. Even within the old guard of Bioware, there is something like a quirk that keeps DA from becoming true dark fantasy.

[Arisugawa]

The grittiest game Bioware ever made was ME2 (when the Collectors were turning people into sludge to make the human reaper). The game was very neon noir in feel e.g. Omega. Even ME1 had a drab kind of sci-fi noir feel. Actually, I would compare Mass Effect 1 with Conrad's "The Heart of Darkness" Shepard (Marlow) hunts Saren (Kurtz) while witnessing a discovered madness (colonization) in the world (universe) unfolding around him (the Reapers and Indoctrination).There is something about the new Bioware that is more Hollywood than say Asimovian. ME3 was like a transformers movie, with an ending pilfered from Deus Ex. In terms of DA: DA:O and II were much Darker on a personal level than DA:I. The way Hawke's mother died, or finding out how the Broodmothers were made were both incredibly dark. Point to such an instance in DA:I?

 

It seems like Bioware lacks the writers who would want to write a Witcher type of game, or a game reminiscent of Cook's "Black Company" etc. Even within the old guard of Bioware, there is something like a quirk that keeps DA from becoming true dark fantasy.

 

The fact that red lyrium is made by infecting a living host with it? That it transforms its host into lyrium, and in some cases like some of the Red Templars, they literally explode into pieces when it has grown sufficiently?

 

The fact that Grey Wardens have been reduced to sacrificing their own brothers and sisters in blood rituals in a mad effort to end the Blights before their order is prematurely wiped out?

 

The fact that one ruling member of a village was selling off the weak and elderly of her people, knowing what fate awaited them, in a desperate hope to save the remaining few who had no food and little resources after a freak freeze eliminated their resources?

 

That the mayor of a Blight-infected town chose to flood the town to prevent the Blight from spreading and spare the uninfected?

 

The whole game is full of this kind of darkness.

[frogkisser]

It always fascinates me how players can play the same game and have vastly different views.

 

We can say that Inquisition has you looking for crafting materials, but I cannot tell you how many times I kept going to different vendors hoping that the next tier of crystal for Shale was finally available. Or how often I circled the map of Ferelden hoping to get the random event that gets you the Starmetal deposit for the Starfang weapon.

 

These are exactly the same thing.

 

And I'm not certain what you're referring to by chilling cutscenes. The only thing that stands out to me from Origins is the initial reveal of the Broodmother, and that was made chilling not by the reveal itself but rather by Hespith's off-screen narration. 

The broodmother is something a lot of people mention, but honestly it wasn't the most riveting point of the game for me, or the creepiest. I'm not saying that many parts of the game were properly creepy, but enough were dark enough to be enthralling.  The cutscene where the Lady was released nearly had me crying the first time I saw it; I still LOVE Orzammar simply because of the music, and who can forget Duncan's death? I'm going off on a tangent here, this is more an argument about cutscenes themselves rather than the darkness of the games...

 

I felt less pressure in those games to look farm in such a way - rpg-wise it made sense to me that I would return to Orzammar late game to buy good armor (this didn't take an ungodly amount of time to do) but I let the random events be random in Origins. The Power mechanic of Inquisition, and the crafting system, either forces you to spam repetitive quests, spam the landscape, or the war table. I'm not saying the other games didn't have this too - I remember hitting the Dalish camps a bit too often for elfroot.

 

It just wasn't personal. Companion backgrounds aside, all the rest of the stuff that happens in Inquisition affects a lot of characters, and when THEY react, rather than having the player react, the effect diminishes. Seeing the Broodmother would have been quite different if some npc had rushed out to you just beforehand shouting 'ARGH MONSTER!'.  Finding out where Blackwall had gone would have been far more interesting if you weren't at first told that he had rushed off to something related to an execution. 

 

I'm not looking for Dragon Age to become the Witcher series. Those, to me, are a different kind of fantasy (more folklore-ish than high fantasy) which manages darkness in different ways. I still love the setting, the world, etc. I just dislike that all this emotion and reaction that was firsthand in DAO and DAII is second hand in Inquisition. 

[Arisugawa]

The broodmother is something a lot of people mention, but honestly it wasn't the most riveting point of the game for me, or the creepiest. I'm not saying that many parts of the game were properly creepy, but enough were dark enough to be enthralling.  The cutscene where the Lady was released nearly had me crying the first time I saw it; I still LOVE Orzammar simply because of the music, and who can forget Duncan's death? I'm going off on a tangent here, this is more an argument about cutscenes themselves rather than the darkness of the games...

 

I felt less pressure in those games to look farm in such a way - rpg-wise it made sense to me that I would return to Orzammar late game to buy good armor (this didn't take an ungodly amount of time to do) but I let the random events be random in Origins. The Power mechanic of Inquisition, and the crafting system, either forces you to spam repetitive quests, spam the landscape, or the war table. I'm not saying the other games didn't have this too - I remember hitting the Dalish camps a bit too often for elfroot.

 

Hmm...again, different perspectives.

 

I didn't care for the Lady of the Forest at all. Wasn't moved by her and didn't like her character, and when the end came, I was actually more moved by Zathrian letting go of his curse than anything else.

 

And Duncan's death didn't move me either. My first Warden was a Cousland noble who despised Duncan for conscripting her. She wanted to save her mother or die trying, and being literally pulled out of Highever was not something she ever forgave him for. And in any event, I think the soundtrack to that scene is the reason most fans find it compelling.

 

But again, that's my perspective. And both yours and mine are equally valid on this.

[Andres Hendrix]

The fact that red lyrium is made by infecting a living host with it? That it transforms its host into lyrium, and in some cases like some of the Red Templars, they literally explode into pieces when it has grown sufficiently?

 

The fact that Grey Wardens have been reduced to sacrificing their own brothers and sisters in blood rituals in a mad effort to end the Blights before their order is prematurely wiped out?

 

The fact that one ruling member of a village was selling off the weak and elderly of her people, knowing what fate awaited them, in a desperate hope to save the remaining few who had no food and little resources after a freak freeze eliminated their resources?

 

That the mayor of a Blight-infected town chose to flood the town to prevent the Blight from spreading and spare the uninfected?

 

The whole game is full of this kind of darkness.

We have known about red lyrium since DA:II... The lives of Grey Wardens have already been sacrificed, it just takes a few years to kick in. Blood magic has been a thing since DA:O--it was more revealing in Golems of Amgarrak, and focal in DA:II. As for dark fantasy, I'm talking about aesthetics, more so a literary aesthetic. One that the writers at new Bioware can't seem to pull off. How do I judge this, well, the aforementioned issues happen in the story but how they are presented leaves people wondering why DA is not dark enough. Would you find many people saying the same about ME2, the Witcher, or infamous fantasy novels like Cook's Black Comapany? I don't think so.

[frogkisser]

Hmm...again, different perspectives.

 

I didn't care for the Lady of the Forest at all. Wasn't moved by her and didn't like her character, and when the end came, I was actually more moved by Zathrian letting go of his curse than anything else.

 

And Duncan's death didn't move me either. My first Warden was a Cousland noble who despised Duncan for conscripting her. She wanted to save her mother or die trying, and being literally pulled out of Highever was not something she ever forgave him for. And in any event, I think the soundtrack to that scene is the reason most fans find it compelling.

 

But again, that's my perspective. And both yours and mine are equally valid on this.

Of course they are Speaking of music, that's a point I had made earlier. A good soundtrack contributes enormously to a scene....and for the life of me I can't really think of ANY Inquisition songs aside the tavern ones, which is part of what makes them so memorable for me. 

 

Speaking of Zathrian, I only just realized who Solas really reminded me of...both appearance wise and poor decision making...I feel slow. 

[Arisugawa]

We have known about red lyrium since DA:II... The lives of Grey Wardens have already been sacrificed, it just takes a few years to kick in. Blood magic has been a thing since DA:O--it was more revealing in Golems of Amgarrak, and focal in DA:II. As for dark fantasy, I'm talking about aesthetics, more so a literary aesthetic. One that the writers at new Bioware can't seem to pull off. How do I judge this, well, the aforementioned issues happen in the story but how they are presented leaves people wondering why DA is not dark enough. Would you find many people saying the same about ME2, the Witcher, or infamous fantasy novels like Cook's Black Comapany? I don't think so.

 

We didn't know how Red Lyrium was made back in DA2 - Meredith's death could very easily been caused by any number of things of a magical nature tied to her sword.

 

Wardens sacrificing the lives of their own is not something we've readily seen, Avernus's research post the fall of Soldier's Peak aside, and that it was sanctioned by the Warden Commander or Orlais whom we witness cut the throat of her long-time friend...we haven't seen that.

 

To answer your question, though...why do people say DAI is not dark enough?

 

In my opinion, because the protagonist and her/his inner circle are not killed or directly harmed by the events of the story. Most fans seem incapable of recognizing just how dark things have become unless it directly affects them. Why is Mass Effect 2 dark? Because everyone can die except Joker and EDI.

 

But killing the protagonist or their inner circle, or even just wounding them, is a storytelling crutch. It is the classic girlfriend in the fridge type of trope, where the only way to motivate or engage someone is by taking something away from them. Or, in the case of Mass Effect 2, with the threat that something could be taken away.

[frogkisser]

We didn't know how Red Lyrium was made back in DA2 - Meredith's death could very easily been caused by any number of things of a magical nature tied to her sword.

 

Wardens sacrificing the lives of their own is not something we've readily seen, Avernus's research post the fall of Soldier's Peak aside, and that it was sanctioned by the Warden Commander or Orlais whom we witness cut the throat of her long-time friend...we haven't seen that.

 

To answer your question, though...why do people say DAI is not dark enough?

 

In my opinion, because the protagonist and her/his inner circle are not killed or directly harmed by the events of the story. Most fans seem incapable of recognizing just how dark things have become unless it directly affects them. Why is Mass Effect 2 dark? Because everyone can die except Joker and EDI.

 

But killing the protagonist or their inner circle, or even just wounding them, is a storytelling crutch. It is the classic girlfriend in the fridge type of trope, where the only way to motivate or engage someone is by taking something away from them. Or, in the case of Mass Effect 2, with the threat that something could be taken away.

 

Not just that the inner circle or that companions can't / don't die, just that anyone who does die (Hawke/Warden choice aside) is of almost no direct interest to you or  the Inquisitor. Do you care that the Divine died? Not much. That Felix died? Not much.  It may be a trope, but not having /anyone/ die in what should be the most dangerous Thedas plot yet adds to that feeling of invincibility and optimist that pervades Inquisition. 

 

And speaking of Clarel, I found her rather rapid turn-around very...odd. She cuts his throat, it almost, ALMOST makes me hate her, then within minutes she's turned on the venatori bloke and shooting bolts at dragons to help the Inquisition. I mean, if she was committed enough to the whole demon binding craze, the speed with which she changes her mind really makes her lose standing as an antagonist / protagonist. 

Modifié par Lazy Lunatic, 26 janvier 2015 - 10:30 .