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[KaiserShep]

^that is  hilarious

 

(I've forgotten how brown everything was)

 

I like how Hawke's comment to Merrill touches on this. Kirkwall's not brown enough for me. But hey! No darkspawn!

[Il Divo]

I think that the best part though is that most of the brutality that the Warden could inflict was more a laugh than anything.

 

 

I think that pretty much nullifies any arguments that the Warden isn't "stupid evil". When taking evil actions, you're very much a sociopath rather than treating it as a matter of necessity. Not to mention, there's more than a few moments where you make decisions that really aren't up to you to make (Ex: Killing the Mabari Hound). 

[KaiserShep]

Heck killing the merchant in Lothering is really ridiculous, but what makes it worth the laugh is Leliana and Morrigan's reaction. Morrigan approves of you siding with the merchant, and when Leliana objects to you killing him, Morrigan turns around and points out that she objected to what the merchant was doing, and should approve of this XD

 

But the real problem with this is that it undermines the integrity of the companion characters. If you were following someone around and he or she resorted to knifing people for no good reason, you'd get your ass out of this group before it happens to you. It's funny to hear their shocked reactions in one playthrough, but after that, their generally passive nature gets old and takes me out of the experience. My City Elf murder Warden was a good laugh, but I can never do it again, because the novelty wears quickly.

[Vilegrim]

I see. Welp, I suggest writing up some fanfic about it and see how that plays out. Who knows, you might strike gold.

 

 

Never seen the point of fanfic, let alone spending effort writing some, if I had the talent (and I am pretty sure I do not) my own world would be the place I would build with it, not someone else's, I just hope/wish that Bioware follow their own world to it's logical conclusion: a tyranny far worse than the dark spawn, with the Chantry leading it to hell on a tide of racial genocide and the annihilation of mages and all families that may birth one later.

 

^Aye, another reason why I find critics of the Hinterlands kinda funny. The Hinterlands are ugly, but in much the same way that much of DA:O was ugly pretty much....everywhere except Orzammar/the Deep Roads. 

 Graphically DA:I is great, but so at the time was LoTRO.

[Iakus]

It's funny too because, while DA:O strikes me as a bit darker in some respects, what he's describing doesn't even sound like the same franchise. 

Yep, Dragon Age has never been really "dark fantasy"  It just had dark elements (whcih as I've said before, I'm fine with.)  Sure it draws on A Song of Ice and Fire as part of it's inspiration.  But it also draws on Wheel of Time and other high fantasy stories as well.

 

I wonder if people are just p*ssed that DAI doesn't allow for as much "Evil for the Lulz" as other games?

[Il Divo]

Yep, Dragon Age has never been really "dark fantasy"  It just had dark elements (whcih as I've said before, I'm fine with.)  Sure it draws on A Song of Ice and Fire as part of it's inspiration.  But it also draws on Wheel of Time and other high fantasy stories as well.

 

I wonder if people are just p*ssed that DAI doesn't allow for as much "Evil for the Lulz" as other games?

 

Speaking as someone who almost always chooses "Evil for the Lulz" options (I did KotOR 16 times Dark Side, yes, I'm psychotic), I was more than happy with the direction Inquisition went. It's fun for doing something different, but I actually prefer it when the game focuses on giving you role-playing options that don't require me to raise my eyebrows and say "WTF?". I want as many diverse role-playing opportunities that can fit into the story as possible. RPG's tend to place you in the role of saving the world, which often makes killing random civilians an issue. 

 

Like you said, DA:O did the "dark" stuff ocassionally (The Joining Ritual, The Brood Mother, etc), but there's so many other elements that follow the High Fantasy structure. Take the opening narration where Duncan describes the Grey Wardens "Warriors and Mages, Barbarians and Kings" with the epic music in the background. That doesn't make me think "This is GoT" it makes me think "My character is going to be a hero". 

[Herr Uhl]

Yep, Dragon Age has never been really "dark fantasy"  It just had dark elements (whcih as I've said before, I'm fine with.)  Sure it draws on A Song of Ice and Fire as part of it's inspiration.  But it also draws on Wheel of Time and other high fantasy stories as well.

 

I wonder if people are just p*ssed that DAI doesn't allow for as much "Evil for the Lulz" as other games?

 

Eh, I think most of it has to do with that it now has a vibrant colour palette (which I approve of).

 

Imagine something like Stalker or Metro in a summery environment for example. It completely changes your impression of the game.

[Il Divo]

Eh, I think most of it has to do with that it now has a vibrant colour palette (which I approve of).

 

Imagine something like Stalker or Metro in a summery environment for example. It completely changes your impression of the game.

 

Possibly, but Game of Thrones also has many vibrant, colorful palettes. 

 

 

[Herr Uhl]

Possibly, but Game of Thrones also has many vibrant, colorful palettes. 

 

Not watched the series, but I know that one of the main themes of the book is supposed to be that "winter is coming" and that it includes a lot of mud.

[Vilegrim]

Not watched the series, but I know that one of the main themes of the book is supposed to be that "winter is coming" and that it includes a lot of mud.

 

 

Yes and no, Winter is Coming is more of a warning (Westeros winters are very strange and can be years long, so get your supplies in unless you like eating your shoes) Some of the characters get the 'lots of mud' others get 'huge burning desert and silks' depending on their location at the time.

[Herr Uhl]

Yes and no, Winter is Coming is more of a warning (Westeros winters are very strange and can be years long, so get your supplies in unless you like eating your shoes) Some of the characters get the 'lots of mud' others get 'huge burning desert and silks' depending on their location at the time.

 

I know that, but the ones that get the huge burning deserts and silks have an entirely different mood to the ones with the vast amounts of mud. Other than just the concept of slave empires, the Easterosi lands seem to have a lot more levity to them with their generally opulent and eccentric leaders and weird cults like the faceless men or warlocks. The down to earth stuff is almost solely set in the north.

 

And the "winter is coming" thing is my way of saying that most of the story is locked in an eternal autumn right now, which lends itself excellently to the generic grimdark mood.

 

I have read all the books, in case that wasn't clear.

[Ashagar]

I never understood the instance some have that fire and ice is dark fantasy. When I think dark fantasy, I think The Black Company series, the old Thieves' World Anthology series, the Diane Tregarde series and other books not a song of fire and ice. That being said as others noted every DA game has a extremely dark elements its not the driving force of the series, the story of thadas in the dragon age is the focus and the various stories are going to be different.

[wicked cool]

They went big picture world is ending but they left out the little violence. I love walking dead but the zombies are only part of what makes it so good

[abisha]

this what i missing from DA:I

 

unless you can't see Eye to eye.

[xJLxKing]

***Game Of Thrones, the Books have very little to do with "Winter is Coming". It's just a saying one house says. Ice and Fire isn't about evil or good. I don't want to spoil things but it's actually about 2 people; nothing to do with evil or good. The White Walkers are not evil or good, you  don't call a lion evil because it kills a human. 

 

 

ANYWAYS

 

 

This was scary. Similarly, Dragon Age needs to go back to this type of tone. Origins had a dark tone/theme had felt grim. This game threw all that out the window 

[Mark of the Dragon]

The game was not gritty enough or emotional enough. It seemed like the game tried to tackle all these huge issues yet I felt like I was told more then I experienced. The mage templar war is supposed to be some huge earth shattering war yet I never got that impression. Its like the OP says, the writings on the war are far worse then anything you ever actually see.

[Uccio]

Possibly, but Game of Thrones also has many vibrant, colorful palettes. 

 

 

 

Red Viper -> Dat Man. Too bad he was over confident.

[Andrew Lucas]

ME3 was dark, gritty and violent. It fitted the theme and tone. I don't think that Inquisition needed that in ME3's proportions because the game never gave me the feeling of you against an unbeatable force that kills everyone on sight with no exception, they never showed that quite well, a massacre, like with ME3's intro, so I think that what with we've got, the game's execution was fine, no need for exaggerated amounts of blood just for the lolz.

[Rawgrim]

***Game Of Thrones, the Books have very little to do with "Winter is Coming". It's just a saying one house says. Ice and Fire isn't about evil or good. I don't want to spoil things but it's actually about 2 people; nothing to do with evil or good. The White Walkers are not evil or good, you  don't call a lion evil because it kills a human. 

 

 

ANYWAYS

 

 

This was scary. Similarly, Dragon Age needs to go back to this type of tone. Origins had a dark tone/theme had felt grim. This game threw all that out the window 

Game of Thrones has o do with the end of the world. The whole story is based on the Ragnarok mythology.

[Vortex13]

we took different things away then, I saw inquisition retcon and remove pretty much everything that made DA:O such a good game, treating it (and by extension its fans) as an old shame to be ignored and ridiculed.  Think that the chantry is an oppressive dystopian nightmare of a cult? Tough you WILL support them, you WILL ensure their power never dies  Think the templars or mages need to be wiped out: Tough you WILL have them in your inquisition, (you end up with some even if you choose the other) you WILL NOT  do what needs to be done to avenge the Dalish, you WILL NOT free Orleais from the game by fire and sword ,the best option imho, would have been to solve the Gordian knot of the game via a huge perfect storm in that ballroom, a few thousand dead nobles, then hunting their family lines to extinction would have solved the game, unified the nation and been a far better out come for the population than the choose which worthless inbred maniac gets the throne, the choice we where given...I choose that Celene's skinned corpse is nailed to the throne and the nobles knee capped, and tied to poles genuflecting to it, Viveinne can get her life long wish and be crucified standing behind the throne, as close to the imperial power she will do anything for as she ever deserves to get..then the building burnt down as they beg and scream, THAT is justice, that is order, all will bow to the inquisition or be exterminated, exactly as the warden could do, that is a darkness worthy of using the name Dragon Age.

 

 

You can't do those things because it would drastically alter the fabric of the setting. Being able to completely abolish the Chantry and/or kill off all of Orlais' major political power would work for a one-off title, but in trying to keep a consistent narrative that can be carried to future titles the plot can't allow us to make such universe shaping decisions.

 

 

This is the trap that ME fell into over its trilogy, the ending was just a symptom of the cause which was epic bloat. Being able to decide the fate of entire species and generally wielding immense power over the setting only served to weaken the overall flow of the narrative (IMO). By the third game, the story had to give players carbon copy clones of major characters to interact with (your 'Not-Mordin' and 'Not-Legion') just to advance the plot along a semi-coherent path.

 

 

Its better to limit your protagonist's universe defining qualities. It might seem antitheses to an epic heroic fantasy, but unless we are going to be okay with dealing with the 'Not-Chantry' and/or 'Not-Orlais' in the future we shouldn't be given the power to make such grand sweeping decisions. 

[RinuCZ]

Stories set in medieval-like worlds have become a fantasy place for exercising an abundance of rape scenarios (almost exclusively happening to females) and humiliating female characters. People drool over it and call it "grim dark". More graphic and less complex, the better. I find the trend quite depressing.

 

I welcomed Inquisition's attempt to do things in more subtle way. It abandoned the popular narrative to use vilified women as "grim" bait and focused on how politics, spying and faith affect society which is way more close to how wars work. Grim stuff are delivered via casual talks. It switched from "Oh noes, the noble jerk touched my friend! I personally set him on fire!" to "You know, let's me tell you how Sera and Varric would shatter under Qun. Haha, interesting, right? Pass me another beer.".

 

• The ball mission presents the empress as okay-ish person, who even has genuine moments of regret, only to hear about her many crimes later. There is no clear-cut choice who would be a better ruler because all of them got their hands dirty in order to be in their place. Even your companions voice very pragmatic opinion how to "fix" the situation. There is no Alistair's level of hysteria involved, just pure scheming.
• Cassandra's trust was abused by Seekers and she has a crisis of faith you don't really have powers to resolve on your own.
• The major in Creswood did terrible things but he had some very solid arguments why he did so. No a fat bag of money or hate for mages or covering a rapefest. Human, pragmatic reasons.
• Wardens loosen their glamorized aura and it made them more human. When there is nothing keeping you in check, it is easy to loose the perspective. Don't forget their order can do anything they want in case of upcoming blight. Anything. Nobody watches over them. And they are constantly hearing voices.
• Sera's backstory glanced how casually you can sow a hate into a mind of child.
• Tarot cards gently remind you for the rest of gameplay an event scattering a soul of your companion. And I don't recall painted bunnies.

This is all in stark contrast with DA:O where everybody seems to forget their issues after Warden slashes a couple of darkspawns and drops a line. Disturbing things are delivered via laidback chatter and it is much more frightening, at least to me. I mean - Are you thrown off guard by the nice colleague using a rasist slur with ease when preparing a cup of hot coffee for you in the office kitchen or by a bald guy in Martens screaming about a superiority of white people on the street?

 

I keep fingers crossed for more games trying to handle matters this way. We need more mature games, not another slasher.

[Vilegrim]

Stories set in medieval-like worlds have become a fantasy place for exercising an abundance of rape scenarios (almost exclusively happening to females) and humiliating female characters. People drool over it and call it "grim dark". More graphic and less complex, the better. I find the trend quite depressing.

 

I welcomed Inquisition's attempt to do things in more subtle way. It abandoned the popular narrative to use vilified women as "grim" bait and focused on how politics, spying and faith affect society which is way more close to how wars work. Grim stuff are delivered via casual talks. It switched from "Oh noes, the noble jerk touched my friend! I personally set him on fire!" to "You know, let's me tell you how Sera and Varric would shatter under Qun. Haha, interesting, right? Pass me another beer.".

 

• The ball mission presents the empress as okay-ish person, who even has genuine moments of regret, only to hear about her many crimes later. There is no clear-cut choice who would be a better ruler because all of them got their hands dirty in order to be in their place. Even your companions voice very pragmatic opinion how to "fix" the situation. There is no Alistair's level of hysteria involved, just pure scheming.
• Cassandra's trust was abused by Seekers and she has a crisis of faith you don't really have powers to resolve on your own.
• The major in Creswood did terrible things but he had some very solid arguments why he did so. No a fat bag of money or hate for mages or covering a rapefest. Human, pragmatic reasons.
• Wardens loosen their glamorized aura and it made them more human. When there is nothing keeping you in check, it is easy to loose the perspective. Don't forget their order can do anything they want in case of upcoming blight. Anything. Nobody watches over them. And they are constantly hearing voices.
• Sera's backstory glanced how casually you can sow a hate into a mind of child.
• Tarot cards gently remind you for the rest of gameplay an event scattering a soul of your companion. And I don't recall painted bunnies.

This is all in stark contrast with DA:O where everybody seems to forget their issues after Warden slashes a couple of darkspawns and drops a line. Disturbing things are delivered via laidback chatter and it is much more frightening, at least to me. I mean - Are you thrown off guard by the nice colleague using a rasist slur with ease when preparing a cup of hot coffee for you in the office kitchen or by a bald guy in Martens screaming about a superiority of white people on the street?

 

I keep fingers crossed for more games trying to handle matters this way. We need more mature games, not another slasher.

 

 

except to me it felt like it was being ignored completely, yes we got some 'the qun is bad m'kay' but anyone paying attention knew that, we didn't get the chance to tell Viveinne she was wrong about the Dalish (as a freaking Dalish who should have slapped her down so hard her skull shattered like glass in a rock crusher) or to actually be a Dalish supremacist like other non-companion  characters are *insert race here* supremacists, we have to be this shining paragon of virtue, and that is not re-playable, it's ok once, but without the contrast I don't see the point of another character, the setting may have some darkness but it is drowned out and hidden, and we cannot be part of it.

[ThreeF]

I keep fingers crossed for more games trying to handle matters this way. We need more mature games, not another slasher.

Me too. I really liked these moments and some more:

 

• If you side with Celene and then go to  Exalted Plains you realize that you doomed all those people to death. They literally sit there and wait to  be executed.
• If you don't seek peaceful resolution at Winter Palace you get your soldiers unceremoniously slaughtered before your eyes. 
• At Crestwood you can stumble on a corpse of a mage with a note that indicates that she was planning to go and help the villagers fight the undead, it is unclear if the undead got to her first or if it was the villagers.

 

I'd take more such grim moments over the murder knife and brood mothers any time.

[KaiserShep]

except to me it felt like it was being ignored completely, yes we got some 'the qun is bad m'kay' but anyone paying attention knew that, we didn't get the chance to tell Viveinne she was wrong about the Dalish (as a freaking Dalish who should have slapped her down so hard her skull shattered like glass in a rock crusher) or to actually be a Dalish supremacist like other non-companion  characters are *insert race here* supremacists, we have to be this shining paragon of virtue, and that is not re-playable, it's ok once, but without the contrast I don't see the point of another character, the setting may have some darkness but it is drowned out and hidden, and we cannot be part of it.

 

Vivienne's immunity to being corrected by the Inquisitor is an exceptionally annoying part of her character, but being unable to strike her because we don't like what she says is not unique to this game. Heck I was surprised that the Inquisitor was able to hit anyone at all. Neither the Warden or Hawke ever got to slap anyone upside the head because they said something that might p*ss you off enough. Also, I think it's a little easy to assume why we can't punch the female characters also. As much as people think they should be able to hit Vivienne and Sera (and possibly Cassandra in the low approval dialogue), I can see this becoming a really crappy point of discussion among fans.