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[Ashagar]

Besides we have enough confirmation on the maker... that seer who's currently stuck as a statue for telling true but unbelieved prophesy confirmed the maker is coming back eventually to their light fires what ever that means. Its likely the closet thing we will ever get to knowing that the maker does exist, he almost certainly won't appear in game unless its the end of the last game...

 

As for the golden city apparently there is confirmation that it appeared golden before Cory and crew tried to breach it via blood magic sacrifices of hundreds of slaves and a mountain of lyrium...(amount of lyrium and deaths sounds similar to what happened at the conclave.) We also know that the Neromenians and the later Tevinter Imperium belived it was the seat of the maker.

 

I hope in the next game we go to Tevinter and find out what the pre-andrastian maker beliefs were like and find how different they were from the chantry teachings on the maker.

[Sifr]

That's how I was looking at it. I don't think Bioware needs to confirm the Maker at all (I'd actually prefer it if they don't).

 

But I think it's going to be extremely difficult to keep the Black City off limits forever, given where Inquisition's story takes us. 

 

I hope that Nightmare was simply a tease for the kind of creatures that exist nearer the Black City (since the Black City was closer than ever before, something Solas even notes) and that they are all Eldritch-like, as a warning to prevent anyone from getting near the place? It could also explain why the demon who took over the Baronness had enough power to pull all of the Blackmarsh into the Fade, since her domain seemed nearer the Black City (although that might have been unintentional)?

 

I think that if they went in that direction, the best approach would have us get right outside the Black City, only for the ground to rumble and a deep voice, ala Leviathan in ME3, warn us that "You have come too far" before throwing us back out of the Fade... leaving the question of whether it's the Maker or just another Cthulhu-esque guard dog, up to us to try to figure out?

[Seraphim24]

@Kefka:
That's not exactly what I said. I actually do think that it should be impossible to undermine a religion on a large scale, in-world, without extremely exceptional circumstances.

What I would like to see changed is the impression that the story itself, as experienced by a player, supports core memes of the faith dominant within the fictional world, basically telling the players "you should believe this as far as it applies to your world". That can be done, for instance, by attaching counter-memes to a non-evil faction or individual and have them succeed. The Inquisitor could do this, for instance, by doing quite a bit more with their mark than close rifts. The story could do this by letting the Inquisitor gain use of the eluvian network. The ultimate event would be a visit to the Black City, most notably without triggering a disaster.

The questionable meme is that crossing certain boundaries which are non-moral in nature is only done by the evil, or always results in evil or at least large-scale disaster. That such memes exist and have a great deal of power in the fictional world is unproblematic, but the story should not feel like a propaganda piece promoting them. Well, unless its writers really want to promote them, which is the impression I'm increasingly getting.

 

That's true that's not exactly what you said, I was mostly over-excited someone was getting it that there just isn't anything particularly controversial or exceptional about DA:I. It's very "traditional," which is what you did say.

 

Honestly I'm just really tired, I've never seen such a profoundly wasted opportunity in my life. Heck, was there anything done in DA:I that Bioware themselves hadn't done in previous games that wasn't largely superficial? (Frostbite engine, etc)

 

As to this having a clearly delineated sidebar that is parallel to a hyper-dominant religious approach would still be somewhat boring to me, it sounds like "permissible disagreement" or something like that. If it's permissible it isn't interesting. Many people aren't religious at all, how would you expect to get universal appeal without at least referencing that phenomenon?

 

I personally have just scraped by with gog, older games, etc, but Witcher 3 not coming out was very difficult to stomach.

[Ieldra]

That's how I was looking at it. I don't think Bioware needs to confirm the Maker at all (I'd actually prefer it if they don't).

 

But I think it's going to be extremely difficult to keep the Black City off limits forever, given where Inquisition's story takes us. 

I agree. However, if they're going to be traditionalist about this - which I'm afraid they are - they can't let us go there, because the point of the tales is that it's beyond our domain.

[Il Divo]

I agree. However, if they're going to be traditionalist about this - which I'm afraid they are - they can't let us go there, because the point of the tales is that it's beyond our domain.

 

That's my worry. I was actually surprised at how much we learned about the Pantheon in this game, given Gaider's assurances that he'll never confirm the Maker's Existence.

[KaiserShep]

At least we know now that if we ever go to the Deep Roads again, we'll actually have areas of pitch darkness, unlike the perpetually well lit caves of DA:O.

[Lebanese Dude]

That's my worry. I was actually surprised at how much we learned about the Pantheon in this game, given Gaider's assurances that he'll never confirm the Maker's Existence.

There are a lot of subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints that the Pantheon are actually noble immortal elves with unique powers who were worshiped. 

 

It's a really interesting theme I hope they will continue exploring in the next game.

[Lebanese Dude]

At least we know now that if we ever go to the Deep Roads again, we'll actually have areas of pitch darkness, unlike the perpetually well lit caves of DA:O.

 

In "The Stolen Throne" we find out that caves near the surface often have cracks to the surface everywhere which is why they are well-lit. 

That explains Aeducan and Ortan Thaig, though the Deep Trenches are a mystery

[Ieldra]

That's my worry. I was actually surprised at how much we learned about the Pantheon in this game, given Gaider's assurances that he'll never confirm the Maker's Existence.

The elven pantheon doesn't carry the same memes. Its moralilty is based on a number of instructional tales which have in common that they're all tales of exemplified human interaction, which means they won't get invalidated if the world turns out to be different from what's told in the old mythology, excepting maybe tales that deal with specific practices like the valasslin. They would work in any kind of world, and it doesn't even matter if the protagonists are really gods, because the elven mythology doesn't recognize a dividing line between the domain of the gods and of mortals. Unsurprisingly, I might add, after the revelations of DAI.

 

Meanwhile, the tale of the Golden CIty is all about declaring such a divide, about human interaction with the world, and if anyone is shown crossing the divide without divine sanction or heavy punishment, this will challenge its very essence. Which is, of course, what I would want, but if Bioware continues with its traditionalist memes, we won't see it.

[MissMayhem96]

 "In Hushed Whispers" was all of the Grimdarkness I needed.

[Vilegrim]

"In Hushed Whispers" was all of the Grimdarkness I needed.

"In Hushed Whispers" was all of the Grimdarkness I needed.

It felt comical to me 'oh look half nekkid people in weird masks' aka literally faceless mooks. If we had failed to get back and had to win a victory in that world? Ok different story, but no one in it had anywhere near broodmother and freaky nursery rhyme of doom punch.

[Ashagar]

In Hushed Whispers effect for me was ruined a tad by the whole time travel thing amongst other things and I didn't find it nearly disturbing or dark as envy's dream realm or that section of the fade by the black city the nightmare controls but that's where we run into the thing that different people find different things dark and disturbing.