439 réponses à ce sujet

[Vox Draco]

Ah. this topic again ... long time no see, how are you?

 

DAI is dark in some places (Haven? Templar/Mage Recruitment? The whole Warden-Isues? Crestwood?) but I think it's the little details that are missing now and then. And one "mistake" in how the main-story is told after "Haven"

 

As Inquisition, which is an instituation that tries to be multi-national, has just been born and has too look for legitimiztion I have no real problem with us not being able to do "evil" decisions. Its not necessary and would feel contrived. We might be the Quizzy, but we are not operating in empty space. Cullen, Cassandra, not to mention the rest would come down on hte Quizzy with vengeance and hold us on a leash again if we get too sociopathic, killing little fuzzy animals as we ...oh, sorry, we can do that and noone cares   Anyway, the point is that the point of the Inquisition is not to turn the world into darkness, but save it from them. The darkness will come in the future, when the Inquisition evolves and gets abused by power-hungry individuals...

 

And back to "mistakes" after Haven .... the problem, both here AND in Origins, were that we played too much without the feeling of true opposition. Even as Wardens I barely felt as if we had to make a race for allies before Ferelden is consumed by the blight. And we were accused being Kingslayers, but the only time Loghain cared when he sent Zevran after us. WE could even enter Denerim at leisure...

 

In DAI its even a bit worse...because we are not a small rag-tag group of adventureres, but we have a whole army under our command. It just barely gets shown, used, threatened. I am no writer, but while Haven was a downer, we immediately got an "upper" again with Skyhold. And even with Cory's cronies going on a rampage across Orlais it from that point onwards never feels again as if we are fighting an uphill-battle.

 

And battle is a key here ... Just one example of what I mean: Let's look at Emprise the Lion. The village there is already destroyed when we arrive, the we free enslaved people, wipe the floor with the remnant Templars etc...

 

Why not having us arrive while a village is actually under attack? Under siege? With Cory's soldiers on a rampage, flames all around us, impaled people, NPC-soldiers dying and fighting, cats and dogs making love with each other, MASS HYSTERIA! Something like that is missing in all DA-Games...

 

When we attack the Warden-Keep the cutscenes before are cool...but more of that please. Its not like we are Game of Thrones and have to be cheap with mass-scenes because Extras are expensive. We have and army, we fight a war, SHOW US! And more Quizzy-Soldiers doing battle across the countryside, like Mages-Templars in Hinterlands!

 

I don't really think DA has to be like Game of Thrones (an  wonder how fans of only the series will react to the later seasons, when in the book nothing really interesting happens anymore ^^) or Witcher (which has so many weird humourous elements its not really that dark to me anymore, but yeah, still more rape, death, decay and Lord of the Rings-jokes). But when a giant hole in the sky is threatening the world I ... would like this world to feel its actually at danger more

[stonerbishop]

Perhaps it could but its better than being ham-fisted and trying to ram it down your throat, it would be nice if they could find a middle ground between the two.

Some middle ground might be good. I feel like they went too subtle if you are a longtime fan and we're expecting more of the overt

[stonerbishop]

Ah. this topic again ... long time no see, how are you?
 
DAI is dark in some places (Haven? Templar/Mage Recruitment? The whole Warden-Isues? Crestwood?) but I think it's the little details that are missing now and then. And one "mistake" in how the main-story is told after "Haven"
 
As Inquisition, which is an instituation that tries to be multi-national, has just been born and has too look for legitimiztion I have no real problem with us not being able to do "evil" decisions. Its not necessary and would feel contrived. We might be the Quizzy, but we are not operating in empty space. Cullen, Cassandra, not to mention the rest would come down on hte Quizzy with vengeance and hold us on a leash again if we get too sociopathic, killing little fuzzy animals as we ...oh, sorry, we can do that and noone cares   Anyway, the point is that the point of the Inquisition is not to turn the world into darkness, but save it from them. The darkness will come in the future, when the Inquisition evolves and gets abused by power-hungry individuals...
 

Here's my issue with this. Cassandra says,

How you lead us is for you alone to decide.

Well bull shite.

[Sifr]

It's not actually pretty sure Cole brings it up in a banter. Something about a templar telling a mage if they tell anyone they'll call em a bloodmage.

 

And it's heavily implied with the Tranquil girl Giselle is talking to in the Chantry when she mentions if she was reverted she would probably kill herself. "Would you like the tranquility reversed?" "I don't believe that is wise. Things happened to me that might make me uncomfortable if I was reverted. I can survive in this state I was reverted I might not." And there's the mentions about mages and templars alike abusing the tranquil. I guess you could take that to not mean sexual assault but given how in previous games that's exactly what abuse happened to them...

 

It's still there. It's just not in your face with a glowing neon sign anymore.

 

It's a tad darker with the heavy implication that she's Avexis, the little elven girl from Dawn of the Seeker, due to one of her lines to Giselle being "I no longer talk to dragons". That makes the ending of that movie a lot more depressing, in retrospect.

[Ryzaki]

It's a tad darker with the heavy implication that she's Avexis, the little elven girl from Dawn of the Seeker, due to one of her lines to Giselle being "I no longer talk to dragons". That makes the ending of that movie a lot more depressing, in retrospect.

 

I never saw the movie but oh

[Draining Dragon]

Perhaps it could but its better than being ham-fisted and trying to ram it down your throat, it would be nice if they could find a middle ground between the two.

They did. It was called Origins.

[Iakus]

It's a tad darker with the heavy implication that she's Avexis, the little elven girl from Dawn of the Seeker, due to one of her lines to Giselle being "I no longer talk to dragons". That makes the ending of that movie a lot more depressing, in retrospect.

Having seen the movie, I'm thinking abuse at the hands of Templars may not have even been needed to make her so "uncomfortable" she may not survive.

 

Tranquility may have been a mercy

[Draining Dragon]

One big difference is that the darkness in Inquisition is, for the most part, implied or informed rather than shown.

[Mirth]

No - DA.:I isn't dark enough, or gritty enough. Most of the bad stuff happens via codex, and I tend to skip a lot of that reading.

You see bodies laying on the ground, but I never bothered to investigate them or examine them because everything I killed vanished into thin air, so I tended to think of corpses (in the world) as simply "decorative". As significant as any tree or bush, and less noticeable than resources or loot I'm constantly looking for.

I killed stuff and it exploded and vanished, without a trace. It held no visceral feeling, what-so-ever. It was "HA! I win moth...(swoosh body disappears).. f.....???? Huh?"

The world was neat and sanitized after my visits.

[Helmetto]

The sad thing about this topic is, I bet writers at Bioware will read this and say, "welp, time to kill everybody we know and care about in a bid for drama and darkness."

[Laurelinde]

The sad thing about this topic is, I bet writers at Bioware will read this and say, "welp, time to kill everybody we know and care about in a bid for drama and darkness."

 

They already did, in a way...there was a post from one of the writers a week or so ago which explained that originally DA:I was going to follow directly on from DA2 and they implied that the fate of the characters we'd met was very, very dark.  Not to mention that one of the inspirations for the series, originally, was the Song of Ice and Fire, and nobody kills off characters with reckless abandon like Martin.  Then you have Gaider and his avatar where he's holding a mug that says 'Fan Tears.'

 

I understand that you can't write a good story if there's no drama, no setbacks and nothing bad happens.  I just wish that literature and the arts in general saw as much value in making people feel joy as in making them feel sadness.  It's not like joy is really guaranteed to anyone in mundane life.  Maybe they do, I dunno.  My literary education was pretty bleak, though.  I don't care if it's a masterpiece, Tess of the d'Urbervilles can fall down a hole and never come out as far as I'm concerned.  Give me Wall-E and Eve dancing any day of the week.

 

Bah, I'm crotchety today. 

[LadyJaneGrey]

The sad thing about this topic is, I bet writers at Bioware will read this and say, "welp, time to kill everybody we know and care about in a bid for drama and darkness."

Perhaps instead of a collector's edition, the marketing will offer a "Darker, Grittier" version?

On the outside the cover's scribbled over with a black marker, and in the inside the discs are covered with sand.

[Helmetto]

They already did, in a way...there was a post from one of the writers a week or so ago which explained that originally DA:I was going to follow directly on from DA2 and they implied that the fate of the characters we'd met was very, very dark.  Not to mention that one of the inspirations for the series, originally, was the Song of Ice and Fire, and nobody kills off characters with reckless abandon like Martin.  Then you have Gaider and his avatar where he's holding a mug that says 'Fan Tears.'

 

And I'm absolutely ****** glad they didn't, because that would've been a really, really cheap sucker punch.

 

Characters dying? sure, feels. Torturing them and driving them toward despair ridden holes that maybe they can climb out of? More feels.

 

Character death is usually very cheap, imo, and seldom done right. I've never read Game of Thrones, nor do I intend to, because all I hear is 'characters suddenly die and its like, but but, they can't die.' I'm sure people will say its done good and well, but in my experience, it's generally not been done correctly.

 

 

Perhaps instead of a collector's edition, the marketing will offer a "Darker, Grittier" version?

On the outside the cover's scribbled over with a black marker, and in the inside the discs are covered with sand.

 

You mean that's not what I ordered? Well ****, better return that right away. Not like it'd run any better than my current version.

[leaguer of one]

You can marry Morrigan? I must have missed that option.

Yes you can. It's called play witchhunt with a warden who romanced her and still loves her.

[Neon Rising Winter]

I don't mind dark and I don't mind violent, but there's something about the word gritty. You hear that and you know you're in for another angst-a-thon, packed to the brim with whinging characters who will incontinently spray their tales of sorrow and woe about the place. Take a chainsaw to the lot of 'em.

[leaguer of one]

I guess it was a lack of heart-wrenching moments, which were available in DA:O and DA2.

 

DA:O = Every origin started out as a tragedy, and made you super invested in the character you built. And from that point on you are confronted with choices that can end up pretty dark. The Tower (kill Wynne and all mages) Redcliffe (sacrifice a kid or his mom) Zathrian (slaughter an entire clan) and so on and so forth. It also includes the choice to die, and of course the tear-jerky Alistair dying instead of you.

 

DA2 = Sibling dies, Sibling dies again if you don't bring Anders, or gets recruited to the GW/ or gets imprisoned in the Circle and/or becomes a Templar (joins the very people who are your natural enemies) - then your mother dies in a horrific way. Pretty much a series of "OMG WHAT". Then Anders becomes a terrorist, and you can also choose to side with the Templars and fight with Anders (which is really sad if he is your LI)

 

DA:I = You become a prisoner, then suddenly you are the new Jesus. Haven gets attacked but you gain a sweet fortress. And from that moment on you continue to kick ass and nothing really bad happens (with the exception of The Abyss, but if you get to choose between Stroud and Hawke its pretty much "uh ok.")

You forget the part were hundreds of people die in an explosion in the opening.

[Ashagar]

They did. It was called Origins.

 

Origins had the subtlety of a brick to the head while DA2 was even worse. As I said I'd like a middle ground not extremes, some of us can appreciate subtlety in our dark fantasies and horror.

[senior caliente]

I atleast expected some main chars to die.... Blackwall or maybe Dorian

[Helmetto]

You forget the part were hundreds of people die in an explosion in the opening.

You mean the hundreds of people who were nothing but faceless NPCs?

 

DAI could've done well if it had a ****** prologue to make us, you know, care about the hundreds of people who died. Because hundreds of people die at Redcliffe, the Free marches, Val Royeux.

 

It's kind of just a meaningless number, and unless you're a truly bleeding heart you're just going to blink and shrug. Kind of shows how desensitized we are, really.

 

 

I atleast expected some main chars to die.... Blackwall or maybe Dorian

 

Out of all the characters, the only person we can kill is Blackwall, and that's if we opt to leave him to rot in prison, lol.

[NedPepper]

To me, the darker the better.  I love the love the gritty low fantasy.  Or fantasy with horror themes.  As a kid, what got me into fantasy were actually films like The Never Ending Story and Legend.  The Dark Crystal.  Old Grimm fairy tales.  They've always been dark.

Inquisition's tone doesn't come close to it.  I can't fault the devs for going in that direction.  Again, maybe they just wanted to change things up.  But the grimness of Origins (the broodmothers, the grey moral area, the misogyny,) gave it a weight.  It felt like a world that NEEDED saving.  Dragon Age 2...Hawke's story is a tragedy, in many ways.  And that's what makes it riveting.  The world is falling apart around him.  Serial killers, mad mages, a tyrannical Templar order, Qunari invaders, Kirkwall's political ineptitude.

I just don't get that feeling out of Inquisition.  At all.  There's nothing scary at all about Coryepheus.  He's more Cobra Commander/Skelator level of "seriously?  That's your plan?" cartoon character. (And when I first saw ol' Cory in Legacy, I LOVED the idea of this character...sigh...)  Even the mage/templar war lost it's weight.  It's supposed to be tearing Thedas apart.  I never felt that SCOPE, you know?

 I do hope we see a return to Thedas with a little more darker edges.  All the things mentioned above are still present in Thedas.  (Hell, you can find it all in the books and comics leading up to this game written by the same writing staff.)  Just for whatever reason, the presentation of the game muted them significantly. 

[papercut_ninja]

I saw a lot of violence...like seriously, a lot...where were you looking at?