439 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

Bring back the damn Desire demons, I loved the encounters we had in one and two, but no we can't have that can we because it would be too dark. I just wonder what caused them cut a lot of the darker elements in the game? They really went overboard with the toning down of the darker elements in the game. I mean when you have a child play with a rabbits finger bone and signing that creepy song and stuff like the Alienage orphanage which was my faviorte play through.

[Vilegrim]

De-sensitization...what seemed dark and disturbing in the first chapter looses its' edge by the third chapter because we have been overexposed to it...

 

 

Except it's missing entirely this time.   Hell I play BG2 and that has more dark elements than DA:I manages.

[Vilegrim]

I wish that the old god child thing would result in a game over screen that can't be avoided after you beat cory.

 

 

I would actually be fine with that.  I wish refusing to have Connor possessed lead to a game over before you beat cory

[Ieldra]

I just like to see this forum if the did what I suggested. It would be fun to see how everyone hates consequences after something like that.

It's not that. I just hate messages that reinforce the mainstream. I wouldn't have objected if it had been impossible to re-soften Leliana. Way better than being successful for having been stupid. In fact, I treat it as impossible for my Inquisitors and I stand by the decision I made in DAO.

[Vortex13]

Yes, I find the wold much more bland then in Origins. Not realy that interesting. Hell. DA2 was dark and full of bad and depiste it's flaws it was able to keep the spirit of DA:O. Inquisition doesn't feel that way.

 

 

Bland is the term I would use as well, though not so much in how dark and gritty DA:O/DA:A is compared to DA:I; people have gone back and forth over that issue enough already.

 

 

I am talking about DA:I being bland in the sense that the world feels smaller and more shallow than DA:O in terms of multiple perspectives. In DA:O/DA:A your human, elf, or dwarf Warden, or the races that you were a part of weren't the only voice in Thedas. You could interact with spirits/demons, werewolves, Sylvans, Golems, even Darkspawn; now whether the player would listen to what they had to say was another matter, but the fact that these creatures had their own motivations and personalities; their own perspective of the world; helped illustrate how the setting was more nuanced than our human(dwarf/elf) perspectives.

 

 

The spirits and demons would speak of how different the physical realm was to them, how alien the static nature of our world was. The Grand Oak offered the perspective of a creature that had seen thousands upon thousands of years of mortal interaction in the Brecillian forest and its long sighted motivations. The Werewolves and the Spirit of the Forest showed us a people suffering under an affliction but were still able to etch out some semblance of a society among themselves. The Golems Shale and Caridin showed how a creature with immortality would view the short lived creatures surrounding it; they offered the perspective on people that gave up what made them human(dwarf) in order to protect others. The Awakened Darkspawn showed us a truly alien species, and that while most will give into baser instincts, there is the possibility for others to develop beyond that. Etc.

 

 

All of these unique and surprisingly deep characters helped Thedas feel more vibrant and alive, it drove home the fact that the world doesn't revolve around our human(elf/dwarf/qunari) perspectives, that there are other beings out there that have an entirely different worldview than what we could possibly imagine. But come DA:I and all of that depth is discarded in favor of more 'human' perspectives. All the non-human(dwarf/elf/qunari) creature are mindless beasts and the perspective has shifted from on where the 'human' characters are just a small part of a larger world, to a 'human' setting with these always evil monsters infesting it.

 

 

DA:I is bland in this respect because it forgoes all of the characterization that DA:O/DA:A built up for these creatures. The game doesn't even consider that maybe these things might be intelligent; some even able to be reasoned with; its all: "Look a monster, lets kill it."

[Ieldra]

@Vortex13:

I think Cole's story and the spirit of command in Crestwood are examples of different perspectives. I agree there's not enough of that in DAI, but it's not completely absent.

[Steelcan]

Its a weird dichotomy.

 

On one hand DA:I is very obviously taking cues form "dark and gritty" universes like the Witcher and A Song of Ice and Fire, hell the Ball at Halamshiral rips out a plotline from the first half of Game of Thrones, and DA has always had a vibe of wanting to be taken seriously, more seriously than ME certainly.

 

But after the catastrophe of DA2 they also need to play it safe because branching out like they did failed rather hard.  That's why I think the main plot is so tame, inherently evil guy trying to destroy the world/become a god, along the way redeem a fallen order/exile a dangerous bunch of criminals, save an empire from falling into further chaos, etc...

 

But the side areas like the Temple of Dumat or Dirthamen, or zones like the Emprise du Lion, companion mission's like Iron Bull's and Cole's stand out from that

[MisterJB]

Do you really need to be submerged in it, though? Do you really need to see Dorian being subjected to a blood magic ritual to change his sexuality? Is his palpable anger and hurt not enough, or is actual blood and suffering required to have an impact?

I don't believe we need the grisly details, no. We certainly didn't need to see Shianni raped to know that was what happened.

But we do need to interact with the people affected.

DAI actually has many dark situations. The issue is a great number of them are happening the background.

For instance, there is this codex entry that lets us know Templars stole food from a group of refugees, then the mages came in and demanded food. When told there was none, they burned the refugees. Then the Templars came in and killed them all. However, when a badly burned woman is revealed to still be alive, one Templar actually starts to take his armor off.

That is dark. Hell, one could even claim is over the top. And maybe it could have had more impact if we had a quest that allowed us to interact with these refugees.

 

And what if, rather than just discovering a letter, we had been given a quest where we are sent to investigate the disappearance of Tranquils and thus find out they are being decapitated by the Tevinters?

 

[Vortex13]

@Vortex13:

I think Cole's story and the spirit of command in Crestwood are examples of different perspectives. I agree there's not enough of that in DAI, but it's not completely absent.

 

 

Not entirely absent true, but DA:I is nowhere as balanced as DA:O/DA:A was.

 

 

 

I don't care about your [insert political/cultural/sexuality issues] [insert companion or NPC], I can get plenty of that when I turn on the news. I want to find out more about that creature that is the embodiment of fear, or learn more about that clan of Giants over there, etc.

 

Taking real world issues and re-texturing them as an elven society (for example) is not as interesting to me, I deal with real world issues in the real world. Give me more things that have no comparison to the real world, let me see and explore the 'alien' side of things.

[Sylvianus]

I have no idea what happened with the writers. But DA:I is bland compared to the previous games. ( it's a good game, it's not my point ) The story is okay despite its flaws, huh, but for a Bioware's game, that's disappointing, okay isn't enough and part of that result is the fact that the game wasn't enough dark and engaging. It didn't punch people at all for most of them, and yet the potential was there.  For the love of god, we have a breach with lots of demons, where is the damn oppressing atmosphere that should make us understand that the world is truly in danger ? Where is the visceral feeling of living in a ruthless world like it happened in DAO and DAII ? Why only Darse, a small village erased is the worst consequence happening for the inquisition ? I felt that not many people died in this war and that's a shame when the story keeps telling me that the world is threatened by the greatest threat since the first blight.. 

 

We have a templar - mage war happening ( a bit  surprised how it just happened in the beginning of the game, it could have been way more complicated and way more engaging ), we have a civil war in Orlais, we have elves conspiring against shems, we could have the bloody noble game with orlesians, we have the inquisition fighting against chaos and fighting for power. It should have been much more darker than that, it should have been very bloody, it should have made us uncomfortable sometimes, it should have punched to the gut, giving us chills and emotional strokes.

 

Reading just the codex is certainly not enough. I wondered once or twice in DA:I if it was the same world between what was written in the codex and the universe in the game where my PC ran everywhere. 

 

Anyways the game feels sanitized as hell, they probably wanted to remove everything that could be considered as controversial. It feels beautiful and empty at the same time, it feels much more like high fantasy. No more brothels while in a medieval time,  and yet they were normally everywhere and very sucessful, no more desire demons, no more choices like cutting the throat of a child, no more disgusting things like seeing its own mother murdered by a blood mage or a child possessed by a demon.

 

We can also hardly roleplay an ambitious man building only his own power to the expense of others, I don't need to mention an evil man as well. That's very infortunate that they took this road with a game named " Inquisition. " I expected something else lol.

[Cell1e]

This game can't be grittier because then someone might get offended by the grittiness.
"Someones mother got killed and that reminded me of that time my mom went to the store and I didn't think she would come back because she was away for so long" or something like that.

Hello

 

Dark events in a rpg game in which you are so immersed and invested in the story and the characters, can be really shocking and upsetting (for some people) when a character is killed off mid or end game. For me I can accept maybe one death of a loved family member or companion but not someones whole family wiped out in the course of a game, that changes the theme to one of horror instead of fantasy adventure.

 

Now for me personally I have lost both my parents and grandparents and many other relatives; so exploring the themes of family deaths within a game setting is something I shy clear of. I think many people feel this way, especially those suffering from or recovering from depression and /or deaths of loved ones.

 

Most rpg games try not to cross those lines without a lot of thought and good reason. Dragon Age 2 for me was too dark, I felt really upset watching Hawkes mother die, and then after that terrible experience saw tragedy after tragedy unfolding as the game progressed. I can play through the game now without being overly affected but my first few playthroughs were difficult, trying to not get my emotions tangled up with the story.

 

For me Inquisition has just enough threat to make it compelling that I complete the storyline but there are a lot of feel good moments, and I need them from my games. I have seen enough dark and gritty events in my life,

 

Howver I know there are many of people who love these themes so I go with the flow.

 

I feel Bioware did well giving us a lighter, less tragic theme this time, especially after DA2,

[Sylvianus]

If they have to give us something very light or much more lighter than DAII, then they shouldn't choose big war events with an organization which should build its power and a world threatened as theme in this case. They should give something more like a personal story. 

 

Mass effect 3 was marvelous with its amosphere, it was really oppressive, the threat of the reapers  and the war felt real. I just wish that the ending would be a bit different. I'm not sure the devs had any idea where their first ending could lead. 

[Ryriena]

I want too play an ambitious man or woman that doesn't give a **** about others and only in it for themselves. In fact, I can't play something like this in this game even thought the inquisition in real life was a really dark and gritty experience for the common folks of old. I am naming the Spanish inquisition for one example forced the Jews and Muslims out of Spain. Heck their were other accounts of inquisitions that put down witches that were burned at the stake.
Like the below picture

Spoiler

[Seraphim24]

Thousands of people die on a mountaintop. Some weird living crystalline fungus grows into people and turn them into agonized monstrous automatons. Someone's face gets skinned. Some nobles torture and abuse their daughter to try and suppress her magic only to have it backfire and everyone dies horribly. Torture in the name of religion. A mage burns himself to ash to keep himself from being possessed. A number of demonic shenanigans. We learn about a man that drowns hundreds of men, women and children to save the rest of his town. A woman sells some of her villagers to become lyrium statues so that she has the resources necessary to save the rest. Tranquil get used to make ocularum in such a way that for a brief moment they become normal again except not really because Tranquil that get 'restored' become extremely emotional so in that brief moment before they get killed they must experience near inhuman amounts of mind numbing terror. Priests dismember and bind their abbot. In a war table mission you can have a bunch of people's tongues cut out. You can stand by and watch us an empress is cut down. A man who has gone insane betrays his order and those who trust him implicitly and lures them to a place where they are fed red lyrium. A group of men and women who have dedicated their lives to fighting an inhuman evil are tricked and exploited into killing those they've served with for years in what they think is their last selfless, necessary act and is actually just demonic binding.

 

No doubt I've forgotten a whole slew of things but you get my point. DAI is rife with grimdark. But I don't know? A number of people seem to lack the imagination or empathy to notice them as such without the game grabbing them by the head, twisting it to where they're suppose to look and yelling in their ear "HEY LOOK AT HOW EDGY WE'RE BEING ISN'T THAT LIKE SO COOL AND CONTROVERSIAL?!!?"

 

This kind of makes me wonder what is dark and gritty exactly? I heard George R.R. Martin talk about how you see violence a lot (Law and Order, etc) but it's like you don't know or really care about the characters.

 

It seems to me Dragon Age's problem isn't whether it's violent enough, it's just a generalized failure to make people care enough about the universe or characters, so that when violence does happen, it feels extremely plastic and artificial, akin to watching an action movie from the 90s or something.

 

A lot of the DA characters, merchants, ideas, are frankly just pretty asinine, so I think the failure to create drama stems more from just not making enough likable characters and people. Alternatively, they are just kind of on the periphery.

 

Heck in WoW in like Mists of Pandaria, you take out a huge number of peple, but it's all kind of cheap fantasy violence so no one blinks. The same for many action games, CoD. DA:O was actually perhaps less violent than it's successors, but the violence it did have was more meaningful by virtue of relating to more personal themes or ideals, picking between Loghain and Alistair for instance was more interesting because of likability of both of them. 2 seemed to start the trend more towards cheap fantasy violence.

 

It's also unfortunate because that's the only thing DA really has to distinguish itself, liking or being invested in the characters or ideas. When they decide to be cool, artificial, and with heaping pile of slick and edgy violence they're basically no different than a typical game.

[papercut_ninja]

Call me crazy, but I didn't find DA:O to be as grim and dark as so many people. To me it was about as grim and dark as Army of Darkness and felt like Bioware was trying to hard to be dark fantasy. But, that could be because I love old school horror movies, Conan and Warhammer fantasy.  

 

It ain't exactly Call of Cthulhu...

[papercut_ninja]

Somehow I don't feel like a couple of tatties on the demons and a rape scene would make me shudder in discomfort...perhaps if they included a boy band they might achieve that reaction...

[line_genrou]

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it’s another girl’s turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hate it as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she’s become the beast.
Now you lay and wait, for their screams will haunt you in your dreams.

[Raven Witch]

(I apologise for my bad english)  

 

I do agree that iquisition lost much of its dark themes.

 

When I was watching the intro of Origins, where the darkspawn breach this gate in the deep roads und butcher the dwarves, with aHurlock impaling a dwarven soldier on his spear, i was like: alright, this is serious. In the Ostagar Tower of was confronted with piles of mutilated bodies and heads on pikes. In Inquisiton, I never really got this sense of danger. Witch is rather sad, taking into account this was supposed to be a game with the world tearing itself apart.

 

Here are some examples in inquisition, witch I guess wasn’t already mentioned, where I believe mutch potential was given away.

 

the mage-templar war: I never had the feeling, there was an actual war waging on. I mean, did we ever hear about a battle? About desperate Mages, turning into abominations, or paranoid templars, terrorising civilians, because they might secretly support the enemy? We pretty mutch know next to nothing about this war, despite the war at the white spire and the culling of the circle in darismund, witch was said to be pretty bloody. In the hinterlands, the darker side of this conflict was hinted at by some letters, but never really shown. Show, don’t tell us.

 

Another point I find rather disappointing was the presentation of the freeman of the dales. These guys are supposed to be simple man and woman who had enough of dieing meaningless deaths for the nobility, witch couldn’t care less for them. There is a reason they shout something like “No nobles, no crown, no inquisition.”  It could have been really interesting to question yourself, who are the actual “bad guys” are. Some deserters, wanting freedom from the oppressive and uncaring nobility, or said nobility, you as an political figure rely on for your campaign against corypheus.

 

Last but not least, the Venatori and the Red Templars. With the Venatori, i had the feeling, I would deal with some crazed madman. And maybe some of them are. But more focus on the aspect of bringing back old tevinter would make a much more interesting story. People who couldn’t watch any longer what there once proud nation has become, believing it had fallen that far from grace, that the only hope for a better future was this twisted darkspawn-thing.

 

As for the Red Templars, I whished there would have been more focus on the struggle with the red lyrium, fighting against the insanity with slowly consumes them, watching there brothers and sisters transforming into mindless crystal-monsters, knowing yourself could be the next.

 

Dragon Age Origins and 2 had those darker elements. Inquisition always just hints at his dark aspects, but telling just isn’t enough. Show, don’t tell. And it isn’t like people nowdays wouldn’t want them. Dark themed storys like Game of Thrones etc. are insanely popular. I really hope, Inquisition can go back to its roots in the dlcs.

[Fishy]

The problem with DAI vs DAO is just one little phrase

 

Less is more.

 

In DAI how many pride demon I fought ? So each one of them felt less epic than the only one you fight in Origin in the Tower of Magi ( and that was creepy too)

 

When you go in the deep road and seek the Anvil. ''That atmosphere'' you're in  a place that not many have visited and you should not be there. There's also only one high dragon. In DA:I I was farming Dragon. So killing them was like killing  big vermine.

 

 

Also the way that magery/ The fade and the side-story of Flemeth Morrigan was done. It was much more tense and enigmatic than DAI story. Cory was too mucha big cliched vilain and he never felt threatening like the Archdemon.

[Rosey]

*cracks knuckles*

 

Alright. You want your grimdark darkness?

 

 

1. Calpernia is a former slave being manipulated by Corypheus. Who's going out of her way to free as many slaves as she can because she believes that through her connection to Corypheus she can HELP. Turns out? He's using her too. Even imprisoned her old master, not out of revenge for how she was treated, but because he needed him for INFORMATION on how to continue manipulating her.
2. Sampson is a fallen templar who wanted so very badly to help that he drank the red-lyrium kool-aid. He was a man broken by the system he pledged himself to, so profoundly, so deeply, that his solution to the problem, to trying to give others in his order who'd lost their way A REASON TO KEEP FIGHTING, was to force feed them blighted lyrium. He even went so far as to push his best friend, a TRANQUIL MAGE, into killing himself rather then being captured by the Inquisition.
3. Corypheus manipulates a broken man, a broken FATHER, who's wife was killed and his son is blighted, with promises of saving said son from emanate death. Does he make good on that promise? No, instead of curing his son from the blight, he just effectively makes him a ghoul. All for the sake of power.
4. The seekers of truth - the original inquisition - had the cure for Tranquility for almost a thousand years, and TOLD NO ONE. Not even the Divine. Instead they kept that secret, allowing generations of mages to be made tranquil, taking away their emotions and the very thing that makes them mages, mind raping thousands of people "for the greater good." And when someone found out? They started a WAR to keep their secret hidden, and fed the seekers to demons and cultists.
5. And if all of that, all the war and devastation and lack of care for life, the starving townsfolk we're asked to help find supplies for, the DEMONS raging through the countryside, All of the Chantry hierarchy being brutally murdered in an explosion so big it caused a hole in the sky, the ongoing war in orlais, the WHOLE CITY of people sold off to the red templars in order to save the rest, the skeletons rising up from the waters in a swamp that was once a small town that died from a plague, the manipulation of the wardens via the false calling that sent them into a panic so fierce that they willingly sacrificed hundreds of their own and bound hundreds more, our own companion who's father tried to use blood magic to alter him because, gay. If all of that, and more is not grimdark enough for you?
6. Corypheus? Sure, he's the "big bad" we're trying to stop. But, he's not actually the antagonist. Solas is. That's right. Your best friend, fade guide, perhaps even lover! Solas is the REASON all the badness is happening. He straight up is a parallel to Judas. He betrays you before anything has even happened, and he leaves you once you've 'fixed' his mess. And when I say fixed? I mean broke his toy that he gave TO ONE OF THE BLIGHTED MAGISTERS THAT NEARLY KILLED THE WHOLE WORLD SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES. Which? All of Thedas' issues with Demons and darkness? All caused by SOMETHING Solas did during the time of Arlathan.

I dunno, guys. It's a pretty dark setting. Just because the lighting is bright, not everything is colored varying shades of brown, our companions are funny and generally light-hearted, and there's not gratuitous amounts of shock-value scary, doesn't mean Thedas isn't a fucked up place to live in. It also does not mean DAI isn't still 100% low fantasy, game of thrones grimdark.

[abisha]

know what i think when i hear cole talk.....

shut the **** up. that how much i care about his whining.

 

reading in codex how "dark the world" is around you is nothing compare to experience it.

i experienced DA:I as PGI 6.

 

Fade rifts, the hell they suppose to be scary? i not seen any villagers being rip into pieces by demons.

how i experienced them, like god again a rift, already closed 30 of those for nothing.

 

demons in general just look like Elementals then demons, Rage demon?? lol i see a fire Elemental.

Pride demon=just a Earth elemental etc, totally not demonic. play Diablo to know what demons suppose to look and feel like.

 

even sons of Rome have people crucified, like they did at that time, to shock people into submission totally missing here.

 

also find the companions missing Emotional deep, so what blackwall killed a few people for money... the hack is that all about their are Orlesian

assassins being promoted by high sociality so whats the big deal?)

Viviana will move some furnitures worst thing that can happens to the Inquisitor.......

[FiveThreeTen]

I just found a journal in the Western Approach, thirsty and starving travelers who were forced to resort to canibalism (near the ruins in which you fight Servis).

 

There you go, ooooh !!!! "dark and gritty"

[abisha]

Call me crazy, but I didn't find DA:O to be as grim and dark as so many people. To me it was about as grim and dark as Army of Darkness and felt like Bioware was trying to hard to be dark fantasy. But, that could be because I love old school horror movies, Conan and Warhammer fantasy.  

 

things that you can do in DA:O

 

killing connor, *child killing* and make alistair mad after (priceless)

killing Liliana

Killing That tower whence *healer one*

kicking a tainted person into lava

possible to make a pact with desire Demon leaving connor as slave to the demon.

leaving a child possessed by demon cat, for fun. *DLC one*

leaving a village die, for being a *******.

leave a templar brainwashed to a desire demon.

kill a defenseless human in a cage for kicks.

kill a wounded soldier because your time was more precious.

Etc, Etc list go's on and on.

 

DA:I

ahhhh their is nothing to put.