199 réponses à ce sujet

[Octarin]

DOS: - The story is bad, and the combat is repetitive.  Relations with your companions is none existent, and the whole thing is whitewash over a very simplistic game,.  There is no consequence as in you can kill someone and life goes on as before.  In general, it's empty under the hud.

 

But the worst thing of all is the conversations, they don't know when to shut up. It can drive you nuts.

 

I disagree. Finding out who you are, why you are who you are and your importance in the cosmos is a pretty compelling story. Side-stories are also absolutely great, meaningful and most are connected to the main. As for combat, you get a free go at being whatever you want, if you made yourself a boring character that doesn't mean the game is boring. You can shift and change tactics and skills as much as you like. 

[Raoni Luna]

Just went thru Leliana's personal quest for the second time, and encountered different outcomes based on prior choices. Some of the same quests with varied dialogue and conclusions; Sweet! My male Human Mage campaign is going somewhat different than my male Dwarven Archer session; has me wondering what will be seen in my future replays.

Am glad I avoided the frustrations met by some others.

Yeah, well, right. See this is the thing about Bioware games, they are not about you. So yes, if you are interested in a character, one that have "screen time" in the game, you will be pleased. Or if you are interested in the story they are telling, great, you will be pleased.

 

But the thing is: I want a good story, I read Lewis, Tolkien, Martin, whatever... I watch a movie and so on. The only reason for me to go to games is that I am there. I want to feel I am there, not through the eyes of Lucy, Éowyn or Daenarys, and Bioware games absolutely won't allow it. Never did, but this increased with each game, by this I mean, being more their character and less me.

 

Actually, due to identification, I feel more like characters from Narnia, LOTR and ASOIAF than my Inqui.

 

You are obviously interested in the story, since you have interest in seeing new outcomes and so on.

 

But this is not RPG. How would tabletop RPG be if the GM roleplayed the character for you and you just had choices? I'm sure most people would stop playing. I actually met one, I quit. He would go on describing what my actions were... hell no... I know what my character did, not you.

 

So this is the public that loves Dragon Age to this date, I could call you "the Watchers", you like exploring the world and the story, for you pursuing different paths is to make it "your story", you are happy to meet this wonderful world and story another one wrote for you. Not me, I accepted that in previous titles because it is impossible to make a game offering me total freedom, but in Inquisition it reached a critical point where I can't connect to my character even a little bit because it is 100% unadultered Bioware character. It is nothing of me, absolutely nothing.

 

So yeah, for one who can bear the pain of their boring stories, or even like it, game is amazing yeah right whoohoo. For people who think saving the world is tho most uninteresting thing a human being could do and that a personal drama based on you personal life and personal choices is a lot more interesting then game is like playing Avengers with you five year old son.

 

We came a long way from Baldur's Gate to Inquisition in a story of removing the player from the player character and putting Bioware there until it became 100% Bioware character. If you somehow identify yourself with some of their choices you will have no problem with the game. But if you don't... no amount of imagination can ignore the Biowarism the game throws at your face.

 

So I get it, I get you liking the game, can you please open your mind and understand that this game restricts the amount of people who like it, it is like playing Assassin's Creed or The Witcher, if you are not into the main character, what can you do? Can you understand that? Or do you think that people should be okay with wanting to go a certain route that the game does not offer and still be pleased and praising Bioware?

 

And I'm not talking only about story and personality. Stats gone, a lot less classes (specializations), skills, restriction to weapons (armors you can remove restrictions with materials). Can you understand that from BG to DAI a lot of things that allowed you to be your character are gone? Can yo understand that some things work for you and do not work for others? Being your character for you probably means living these stories and making these choices, I really really get it. For you, that's it, that's enough, and again you probably find their boring storytelling interesting somehow. But can you understand that there will be people that are not like you and are interested in other things? If you don't, there is no reason to be all "reasonable", just scream "I like it and people who don't are retardeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!" because as much as you try to post with reason, it is not true if you completely dismiss the fact that there are people with different needs and interests.

[TheOgre]

Not really.

Their frostbite decision huh? So they volunteered to take an fps engine.

Seems very strange, perhaps they were subtly encouraged to take that needle in the arm.. I realize it's hindsight but a quite a few of their "passive" talents don't seem to work, and there bugs are well, very evident..if they chose this engine, why does it seem like they are struggling with patches?

[alchemist42]

Loved DAO, DA2  (also ME2, ME3), some of the best games I ever played.

 

I won’t play DAI again, just so many things annoyed me about this game, something went badly wrong here.

[TheOgre]

It would seem they have, yes. Lebrun explained why too.

Origins and Dragon Age 2 also suffered from non-functional talents, passive or otherwise, in the months surrounding their release, if my memory serves me correctly.

Because it's the first time they work with Frostbite 3, their QA hasn't been particularly effective, those patches were rushed... there are plenty of things one could point at as reasons why Inquisition's patches have been considerably troublesome. However, there's only one thing we know for sure - that we don't actually know anything at all. Ultimately, this is all conjecture.

Kinda makes me feel moronic and very unsmart.. I just joined in the ea hate train without doing my own research. Woah.. I think I need to start reading more.

[Fingolfin1222]

Piece of advise to Bioware: "If it aint broke, dont fix it". 

Combat mechanics were perfect in DA2 (apart from the lack of a top down view), and spells/Specializations(and their variety) were brilliant in Origins. Dont know why they felt the need to **** all of that up. 

[Reymoose]

Because it's the first time they work with Frostbite 3, their QA hasn't been particularly effective, those patches were rushed... there are plenty of things one could point at as reasons why Inquisition's patches have been considerably troublesome. However, there's only one thing we know for sure - that we don't actually know anything at all. Ultimately, this is all conjecture.

 

It is conjecture, yes, but anyone with some kind of programming or development experience can point out some glaring flaws in the *use* of Frostbite 3 vs. another more accessible, modular engine.

 

Take path-finding for example, or how characters interact (or lack of) with the environment, the lack of dynamic scripts, simply things you would expect of the next generation of engines. Just looking at it from a environment design perspective-and disclaimer I have little to no programming experience-there is next to nothing I see Frostbite 3 having an advantage over existing engines or engines in development now. What I mean is, objects don't look "better" in this engine than say Unreal 4, or CryEngine, and at times look worse because of wonky material use.

 

To give you an idea of when I say 'interaction', take deformable terrain for example, which I *believe* Frostbite 3 is capable of. It's nothing new, and adds "wow" factor to combat moreso than any dancing with a staff does. Red Faction: Guerrilla and Fracture being two example off the top of my head.

 

 

Take a look at the capabilities of Unreal 4 for example, and this is by *one* person:

 

 

Besides working with a new(ish) engine as was the case for Frostbite 3, these concepts are years old now, and only require talented technical artists and programmers to execute, something that should be expected from a AAA, well funded, staffed company like Bioware.

[Riven326]

I am a PC exclusive gamer, mainly because I like games like Civilization, Tropico, Spellforce and other non action oriented games.  These games are not available on consoles so I see no reason to buy a console, that simple.

 

However by reading the majority of the threads here I have to agree with this.  Basically EA was going for the casual gamer who never played Dragon Age before.  Because if you liked Dragon Age: Origins, either on console or on the PC, you wouldn't like this game.  This is the mistake they made with Ultima 8 which ended up killing that franchise 20 years ago, now they are doing it again.

 

If a game is as highly regarded as Ultima or Dragon Age you do  not change it or you will lose your core audience, but EA wanted to make it appeal to a larger audience and will probably end up killing both franshises in the process.

 

Genres exist for a reason, which is that not everyone likes the same thing.  Some like FPS games, some like Racing games, some like RPGs and almost everyone likes several different genres, I know I do.  But EA tried to make a game that will make everyone happy, and you know the old saying "When you try to make everyone happy, you end up making nobody happy."

There is some truth to this. But I would argue that they don't really have a choice anymore in this market. The amount of money the publisher has to invest to make a Triple A game today is quite insane. You can't make a game like Inquisition and not try to appeal to the widest audience possible because you won't make enough of a return of the investment. This means shareholders get upset and people end up losing their jobs because the company can't make payroll. It's simply the reality of the industry today. We don't have to like it and we can still vote with our wallets well enough though.

[TheOgre]

It appears quite a few things were scrapped, looking at the initial E3 footage (Which played a big part in GOTY). Whos to say that a lot of accomplishable things were at one part on the table and were just, scrapped...

[luism]

Rose coloured glasses? At the time there were a lot of complaints about the DAO console version.
 
But then I don't believe the issues of DAI can be blamed on consoles, I think in terms of the gameplay multiplayer was a big influence and some of the other complaints relate to the open world implementation.

I own da o on PC and PS3 in fact my first play through was on PS3 I didn't buy the PC version up until years later to do play throughs with mods. I always preferred the comfort of the couch to the desktop. The ui was fine on both.

[earymir]

You know how the interwebs has been doing reasonable cuts to Star Wars new trilogy and The Hobbit? 

 

Imagine how much better this game would be if they scrapped like 3/4 of the side quests, cut the levels in half, and only had companion/advisor quests, main quests, and made sure the primary quest of each zone was a bit more cohesive (e.g., had some dialogue about it...).  I think that would be a huge improvement.

 

Of course, I think more stuff should be added (tactical combat, for instance, and more "Inquisitor's Path" type quests), but cutting out the crud would make the game soooo much less grind-y.  

[Reymoose]

For the record, it is not my intention to defend BioWare, Frostbite 3 or how the former made use of that engine to create Inquisition. I do not possess the knowledge to speak of Frostbite (or any other engine), either.

 

Path-finding in this game is awful, denying that would be absurd. I know not why it is in the state it is, but I do understand that it shouldn't be. What exactly are these dynamics scripts?

 

Assuming Frostbite 3 is indeed capable of supporting terrain deformation, is it perhaps fair to say that, as it always happens during development, ideas were scrapped in favour of others, and this may very well have been one?

 

I don't know much about path-finding, it's programming, but from my limited understanding the problems stem from the Z-axis, jumping, going from one plane to another, and a *ton* of games deal with this issue. DA:O and DA2 *didn't* have to deal with a Z-axis as far as I'm aware, but this is one issue I'm on the side of omission rather than than inclusion.

 

If it were up to me, I'd rather have cut out the Z-axis (jumping, moving to different levels of a zone via jumping/hopping) and made more linear paths (roads, stoneways, ramps, bridges etc), and cut out the problem if I couldn't figure out how to deal with npc's being unable to deal with it.

 

Dynamic scripting (I think that's the term?). Think basically that tagline that a lot of games use "dynamic, living world", and it's mostly to do with A.I. behavior, it behaves one way for a while, then learns what you're doing (though learn is the wrong term, it just records it) and if you're doing the same thing (like targeting casters first, or...opening up with a taunt) then it changes it's behavior accordingly.

 

So let's say, you're charging in with Cassandra, and ranging away at an enemy group, the next enemy group might on aggro, open up with stunning Cassandra and AOE'ing your party. Other times it can retreat and there's *some* of this in DA:I (like Despair Demons jumping away when you have melee on them), but not to the extent that we haven't seen in other games, which is my point in that since Frostbite 3 isn't the easiest to work with, the benefits of it seem minuscule to none versus other engines other than being proprietary.

[earymir]

 

 

If it were up to me, I'd rather have cut out the Z-axis (jumping, moving to different levels of a zone via jumping/hopping) and made more linear paths (roads, stoneways, ramps, bridges etc), and cut out the problem if I couldn't figure out how to deal with npc's being unable to deal with it.

 

 

 

YES.  So not worth the irritation-fest that is moving in a third dimension (Crestwood, Hinterlands, and Exalted Plains being the worst offenders).  I think plenty of games suffer from this (MMOs, Skyrim), but for some reason it's just like absurdly annoying in this game.  Maybe because at heart it's not an exploration game, but certainly tries it at times.  

[Elhanan]

@ Raoni Luna: Assume much? I am a huge proponent of Attributes and Player design and customization. That said, I am able to adapt and play the game presented; not just the game I want to make myself.

And DAI is a cRPG whether or not it fits some definition others may have. While there is some auto-dialogue, DAI has fewer cinematics and meandering speech than many other titles, and it offers more options for responses than I have seen since NWN1 multi-player; the closest I have experienced to PnP.

Personally, I enjoy the story, game, and am pleased it has done so well for Bioware.

[Violetbliss]

Never fun when you have bad experiences with a game, although OP seems to want a game that is hard to achieve, in the sense that you would need a role within the game tailored for you, like that of the first game was (through chance). I find that is an unrealistic expectation to have of any given title, although it is awesome if it happens. I can agree on some of the console limitations however, it is just something we have to deal with unless they make two completely different games. Frustrating as a PC user, and most likely to the console users that don't want a little on the simple side gameplay. However, I don't particularly mind third-person rpgs like this, so I didn't really get bothered too much by the frankly abysmal tactical cam (again, made for console).

 

Personally I dislike the premise - I didn't really want it to be centered around an Inquisition - but I found myself able to select enough choices to take my own path through it within the narrative, which was a pleasant surprise. It'd be awesome if I could just say /no and go after the bad guy a wholly different way, but I totally understand the time and resource constraints in making that possible, particularly given the amazing amount of voice talent.

 

Overall I found it a nice game. 

[Jerome620]

Their frostbite decision huh? So they volunteered to take an fps engine.

Seems very strange, perhaps they were subtly encouraged to take that needle in the arm.. I realize it's hindsight but a quite a few of their "passive" talents don't seem to work, and there bugs are well, very evident..if they chose this engine, why does it seem like they are struggling with patches?

 

Engines can be adapted to any game genre. Obviously you would not take an FPS engine and use it for an RTS. Square peg > Round hole. Game engines are chosen for many reasons. Including, but not limited to, overall graphics appearance and performance, as well as how easily it can be adapted to meet the needs of a different game. There have been many games that ran on the Unreal engine that were not FPS. 

[DuskWanderer]

Sounds like you're the one that needs to grow up.

 

I only call out immature behavior. I certainly don't spend long winded rants filled with nothing more than personal opinions on how I didn't get everything I wanted and throw tantrums demanding attention

[Dominic_910]

I only call out immature behavior. I certainly don't spend long winded rants filled with nothing more than personal opinions on how I didn't get everything I wanted and throw tantrums demanding attention

How dare she post her opinion in the "Feedback and Suggestions" forum, that is so out of place...

[Biotic Flash Kick]

hey i wish i could return DAI 
But instead i got a free PC copy so
atleast i can keep playing and changing up builds 

[Zinho73]

You know, DA:O was a great game on consoles as well, and there are probably just as many upset console gamers over this game as PC gamers.  Stop blaming the existence of consoles for this.  

It is not the consoles or the console players, but there is that idea in marketing that console players are more about immediacy and shallow, immediate rewards. Pause before combat? Lunacy. Skill points? What's the point? Everybody is going for the internet and use the same, optimum specs for each character. More involved quests? This is the Assasin's Creed, GTA and MMO generations - it is all about quantity, and we do not have time do do 100 hours of cool quests. 

 

They do not make a game based on a clear vision with focus. They do not aim to surprise us anymore, they aim to check as many items as possible:

- romance? OK

- Mounts? OK

- Sprawling vistas? OK

- Tactical camera? OK

- Crafting? OK

 

All those things are great while well implemented, but without focus, the design crumbles.

Why do I need a Tactical Camera in an action RPG?

Why do I need mounts if their existence will lower interaction with the environment and the other characters?

Does crafting really needs that many steps? Is the experience going to suffer since we have to use list menus and not grid menus? 

Is the head of a religious/military organization the right person to fetch blankets and pick flowers?

 

They are not thinking about what they are doing, they are just doing it. 

 

And what is sad is that this is enough to gain the Game of The Year accolade. When it works, it is an OK game with entertaining characters, a grandiose scope, nice graphics and dumb but occasionally fun combat. But the problem is that an OK game is not what we were used to get from Bioware.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Their frostbite decision huh? So they volunteered to take an fps engine.

Seems very strange, perhaps they were subtly encouraged to take that needle in the arm.. I realize it's hindsight but a quite a few of their "passive" talents don't seem to work, and there bugs are well, very evident..if they chose this engine, why does it seem like they are struggling with patches?

 

Mass Effect series used the Unreal 3 engine, which was originally meant for fps, too. Adapting the new Unreal 4 engine for DA:I would have been possible as well. But why pay for it if they have Frostbite 3 already? The amount of work to adapt it for a cRPG would have been the same.

[Octarin]

It is conjecture, yes, but anyone with some kind of programming or development experience can point out some glaring flaws in the *use* of Frostbite 3 vs. another more accessible, modular engine.

 

<LONG SNIP>

 

The Unreal Engine was the epitome of perfection. Nothing can top it. To me, moving from the Unreal engine to Frostbite was a step backwards.