126 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

1) VGChartz is about as reliable as reading tea leaves ( and less honest ).

2) VGChartz does not include digital sales. Which make up a significantly large portion of PC sales.

3) Next time try spending more than 30 seconds with Google to avoid bringing shame upon your family.

VGChartz uses statsical sampling of many stores across multiple retail outlets and uses scientifically found statistical analysis to extrapolate sales. This is done in every other industry.

SPOILER ALERT - you know Gallup polls, which have been used for close to a century to predict election results DON'T ACTUALLY ASK EVERY VOTER HOW THEY WILL VOTE? NO!!! It's not possible! Yet somehow they arrive at the correct conclusions within 5-10 percentage points every time. They must be really good at reading tea leaves!

Or, you know, the scientific strength of statistical sampling that eliminates for bias has been proven to be a reliable predictor of practically every decision driven by human behavior on the face of the planet. Scientific studies are based off it. Financial successes are built on it. Anyone who calls it reading tea leaves needs to go to school and take a math class.

As for digital downloads, yes... unfortunately no one has access to that information. EA can tell us how many downloads happened through Origin, but can't give a totally accurate number of XBoxLive or PSN digital downloads. It becomes even more murky for games that are distributed through Steam, where only Valve as a developer would have 100% clarity on what sold with their system. Despite being able to give totally accurate numbers with the simple generation of a report, companies have decided to keep this under lock and key for what I can only assume are cloak and dagger reasons.

Still, the amount of digital downloads for a game has been fairly predictable to project. And nothing about DA:I's rollout or distribution would suggest a huge skew of digital downloads more than any other game on the market right now.

[Fredward]

Well, luckily, because I wasn't born with this idea that the world constantly needs to serve my needs first by virtue of me being me I feel no real compulsion to go out and by a console.

[katokires]

Well... And if I don't want to play Star Citizen? What If I wholeheartedly love Mass Effect Universe?

Then you're in a hell just like I am for loving Thedas.

[TurretSyndrome]

You wish. Bioware needs to do better for the PC. It's their failure as a developer if they could not get the PC crowd proper to get into their game. If demanding a better quality from games nets you the scorn from developers that they ignore you, so be it. We're no drug addicts to be at the mercy of the dealers, like some people. 

 

In other news:

Windows 10 being released by the end of 2015

PC gets DX12

Xbox Live app giving PC players DVR features of XBOne

Microsoft declaring support for PC, brings Fable legends to PC previously exclusive to XBox, promises more XBox franchises to appear on PC

 

Yeah, I'm sure I'll be dying to buy a console in the future.

[FKA_Servo]

I love it too. Just wanted to point out that there is exlusive PC games that you have absolutely no chance to see on console because they are too big for it or need keyboard+mouse gameplay. Consoles games are more and more casual and will now NEVER come back at a point of complexity and content that was the norm several years ago. But on PC you can still have persons that create good old-style games. On console, you have a paywall named sony or crosoft or nintendo that want a big part of the price to be on their shop. All heil to the internet!

 

I think it's worth noting that my Xbox 360 still has a couple of USB ports on it. There's no inherent reason why you couldn't plug a KBM into it, and no inherent reason not to offer the support for that option sometimes, apart from the fact that they just don't really do it.

 

Honestly, in 2015, when consoles are literally mid-range gaming PCs, there's no inherent reason why the leveling field can't be equal. I'd like to see that come about.

[SpiritMuse]

Yeah, but the problem is, in this case the single knife(console) isn't specialised. It's just one of the small knives taken out of the whole set and sold separately. Not specialised because it can't do anything better than the Swiss knife itself.
 
Just for the kicks:
 
Console

Spoiler

PC

Spoiler

 
And don't get me wrong, I don't bash on consoles or their users. I have my PSP and android tablet - they both serves their purposes when I am away from home, but that's all. When I am at home I never touch them.
 
In short: Consoles are OK, just don't try to convince me they can do anything better than PC.

I I have no need for a PC because I never need to use any of the other tools of the SAK, but I get your point. It depends on the specs of your PC though whether it's better than a console at running any specific game. And that may be exactly what consoles are better at: with a console I never have to worry about or deal with games not running because I have the wrong specs or the wrong drivers.

[Shechinah]

Nah, I'm sticking to my good ol' PC until the day it overheats and burns my house down... then I'll eat it because I'd have nothing else to eat or do for that matter.

[FKA_Servo]

And that may be exactly what consoles are better at: with a console I never have to worry about or deal with games not running because I have the wrong specs or the wrong drivers.

 

A certain subset of DAI fans here might disagree with you, although that's an exceptional situation. Still happens.

 

I think the differences are such that even when a PC and a console are equivalently powerful, the PC will still generally run the game better. You'll still have video and interface options that aren't available to the consoles (this is certainly the case with DAI) that allow you to further tweak the graphics and enhance performance. And then, of course, there are mods. Limited in scope for some games, but they unambiguously allow for a better experience in almost all cases where they're available.

 

And I play most of my PC games on my TV with a 360 controller. So there's also that.

[Shechinah]

I just genuinely feel more comfortable playing with a keyboard and mouse than I do a controller.

[SpiritMuse]

A certain subset of DAI fans here might disagree with you, although that's an exceptional situation. Still happens.
 
I think the differences are such that even when a PC and a console are equivalently powerful, the PC will still generally run the game better. You'll still have video and interface options that aren't available to the consoles (this is certainly the case with DAI) that allow you to further tweak the graphics and enhance performance. And then, of course, there are mods. Limited in scope for some games, but they unambiguously allow for a better experience in almost all cases where they're available.
 
And I play most of my PC games on my TV with a 360 controller. So there's also that.

True, there are games that have problems on consoles, too, but that is exceedingly rare and generally a problem with the game, not the console.

And that's cheating, using a controller on a PC! I'm sure there are PC purists somewhere who would regard that as an abomination.

I guess I just prefer the simplicity of consoles. I like to just get on with playing the game instead of endlessly fiddling with graphic settings to get the best looking game out of my current hardware (though I'm sure that can be very satisfying). And I grew up playing console, so it's what I'm more used to and more comfortable with. That's not to say I haven't played and enjoyed my share of PC games. I just currently don't have a games-worthy PC and I don't mind.

But I'm not a spokesperson for console players everywhere, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.

[TurretSyndrome]

 

And that may be exactly what consoles are better at: with a console I never have to worry about or deal with games not running because I have the wrong specs or the wrong drivers.

 

Wrong specs and drivers? There's the minimum specs required for the game to run and then there's the driver updates for your graphics card. If I have a console equivalent specs, I'd never have to worry about multiplats not performing as well as the console. There's no "oh crap I installed a wrong driver or my graphics card" or a "oh crap I have the wrong specs". It even feels weird to say that. 

 

Just as your console has its share of updates, Windows takes care of everything that it is needed for the OS. The graphics card updates are also automatic once you install the initial driver that comes with it.

 

It's cool you just want to plug in and play your games on console without the extra couple of steps you'd need to do before you play on PC. But that initial advantage is so small that it's not worth sticking to console and losing control over the hardware and software forever for me. 

 

The real advantage to consoles are their exclusives and even that is a waning one these days.

[Sidney]

I just genuinely feel more comfortable playing with a keyboard and mouse than I do a controller.

Depends on the game honestly for me. I could never FPS on K+M at all. I know it is "better" but it never clicked for me. Same with driving games. I love those on a controller. Something like Europa Universalis would be impossible on a console. I think in terms of control I might prefer DA games on the computer but since my wife and I watch each other play it is a lot easier to sit on the couch and kick back wi the big screen and the XBox to achieve that end.

[Fast Jimmy]

I think it's worth noting that my Xbox 360 still has a couple of USB ports on it. There's no inherent reason why you couldn't plug a KBM into it, and no inherent reason not to offer the support for that option sometimes, apart from the fact that they just don't really do it.

Honestly, in 2015, when consoles are literally mid-range gaming PCs, there's no inherent reason why the leveling field can't be equal. I'd like to see that come about.

I'd die to see a developer tell console users to go out and buy KBM accessories to properly play their game the same way people responded to PC DA:I players by telling them to buy a controller.

[Nefla]

Well... I did buy XBox 360 for Mass Effect only, so my case still stands debatable

I bought an Xbone for DA:I...d'oh!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

NPD, the most respected industry source of video games sold, does not count digital downloads either. This isn't due to shoddy fact checking or oversight, but the fact that Steam, Origin and GOG refuse to release this information, unlike retailers. Even as MS and Sony get into the digital download game, they aren't releasing their numbers either.

Historically, as recently as 2014, digital downloads have made up roughly ~15 to 20% of sales for games that appeared on console and PC. There is very little evidence to suggest that for DA:I, it would sudden and magically increase up to 40, 50 or 100% to make the game seem more financially viable. Comparing it to VGChartz sales of DA:O and DA2 is also valid, since those digital downloads were not captured either.

In a nutshell, NO ONE knows how much DA:I sold, not even EA. They know how many retail copies they issued, how many digital keys they issued out and how many copies have already been returned, but until all digital download sources become transparent the question can't be answered clearly.

Hence, VGChartz uses statistical sampling of retail and anyone with a lick of sense adds 20% for games that come out on PC for multi platform games for uncounted digital downloads. It's not an exact science, but it's been remarkably accurate for years now and it's the best we have, since if the game does poorly EA tends to sweep such things under the rug in financial reports or bundles it together in ways that make it impossible to tell the success of the product.




I just do not get the irrational hatred of VGChartz.

 

I wasn't really referring to VGChartz (which I know pretty much nothing about) but to the OP's assertion that the numbers meant that people needed to purchase consoles in the future.

 

But, even if the PC sales figures are lower (although 20% for digital seems like an awfully small estimate to me, since virtually everyone I know who plays multi-port games on PC gets the digital version) I don't think they figure into the OP's thesis very much. Even with the numbers that are there, I'm sure the PC sales form a pretty important part of the profit equation. And there are still games under the EA umbrella that have sold equally well or better on PC.

[Sidney]

Wrong specs and drivers? There's the minimum specs required for the game to run and then there's the driver updates for your graphics card. If I have a console equivalent specs, I'd never have to worry about multiplats not performing as well as the console. There's no "oh crap I installed a wrong driver or my graphics card" or a "oh crap I have the wrong specs". It even feels weird to say that. 
 
Just as your console has its share of updates, Windows takes care of everything that it is needed for the OS. The graphics card updates are also automatic once you install the initial driver that comes with it.
 
It's cool you just want to plug in and play your games on console without the extra couple of steps you'd need to do before you play on PC. But that initial advantage is so small that it's not worth sticking to console and losing control over the hardware and software forever for me. 
 
The real advantage to consoles are their exclusives and even that is a waning one these days.

You say this and yet I see a crap ton of whining on every forum for every game from PC gamers having issues with this that and the other based on their system setup.

[katokires]

True, there are games that have problems on consoles, too, but that is exceedingly rare and generally a problem with the game, not the console.

And that's cheating, using a controller on a PC! I'm sure there are PC purists somewhere who would regard that as an abomination.

I guess I just prefer the simplicity of consoles. I like to just get on with playing the game instead of endlessly fiddling with graphic settings to get the best looking game out of my current hardware (though I'm sure that can be very satisfying). And I grew up playing console, so it's what I'm more used to and more comfortable with. That's not to say I haven't played and enjoyed my share of PC games. I just currently don't have a games-worthy PC and I don't mind.

But I'm not a spokesperson for console players everywhere, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.

Yeah but for people like me, who were pratically born in a PC, it comes as easy and natural as breathing. Even more I'd say so. And PC offers us the option to make things even better. I can't play Inquisition without SweetFX anymore, it just seems too pale. Also because we can mod games it can be a lot less painful playing old games in HD, and it is amazing because every game gets too old. There is more things like being able to play games from the next generation with no problems just changing settings or by just buying a specific hardware, making it cheaper.

But I'm not a spokesperson for PC players everywhere, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.

[Fast Jimmy]

I wasn't really referring to VGChartz (which I know pretty much nothing about) but to the OP's assertion that the numbers meant that people needed to purchase consoles in the future.

But, even if the PC sales figures are lower (although 20% for digital seems like an awfully small estimate to me, since virtually everyone I know who plays multi-port games on PC gets the digital version) I don't think they figure into the OP's thesis very much. Even with the numbers that are there, I'm sure the PC sales form a pretty important part of the profit equation. And there are still games under the EA umbrella that have sold equally well or better on PC.

Actually, the ~20% was of the total sales, not the PC. So if the game sold 3 million retail, add about another half a million and that's what digital downloads likely are around. Which would put PC sales just under a million, which seems about right for the game.

Would the added costs of developing DA:I for PC cover a million in sales? I think so. Of course, this is with less than complete PC optimization. To avoid scorn from PC players, does increasing costs for this platform further overshadow the returns they would get from not making it a console-only franchise? That's a question for someone at EA. I have a feeling the answer would still be "yes," but they may also say that the PC will be more similar to the console version in all future titles, full stop. Deal with it or move on, consumer.


In so many words, that is.

[AxholeRose]

Not unless 4k becomes the norm.  I'm enjoying DA:I on PC with everything maxed, occasionally struggling with the UI and cursing at the menu system, but still enjoying.

[TurretSyndrome]

You say this and yet I see a crap ton of whining on every forum for every game from PC gamers having issues with this that and the other based on their system setup.

 

And I'm sure console gamers never whine about technical problems with their games. 

 

Fact is, if PC gamers are whining about certain games not running on their setup, either they are the idiots that try to play a game far above the system requirements(which means they are trying to play on some crappy old laptop which they are not supposed to) or the games are not optimized and buggy messes. The latter is usually true and consoles are no exception. In fact, consoles are at the mercy of the developers in this, while things can still be fixed and worked around on PC.

[Octarin]

Or as PC gamers we could stop supporting companies we find unsuitable. There's no need to buy a console, especially if one does not desire to, when there are tons of games that are great on the PC. BW is just one company, if someone does not like what they're making then they should stop supporting them. Holding your wallet is the only way to show you're unhappy.

 

^this.

 

Also, seriously, there are still very many games that are exclusive to the PC. I think you have things a little wrong there, OP. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

Interesting that DAI has sold at a ration of more than 2:1 on PS4 vs Xbone. Is there that much difference in the target audiences of those two platforms? I know PS4 is a fair way ahead on overall console sales into the market, but 2:1 is still a significant variation.

[Rhaine]

My PC is your console + 100 other things. What you can do on your console I can do on my PC. What I can do on my PC ... well, you can do 5% of that on your console.

 

Why would I change my Swiss knife for a simple butter knife?

 

Btw, nice bait thread.

1: exclusives

2: devs are lazy at optimising pc games

 

3: be a pro like me and have both!

[Xhaiden]

VGChartz uses statsical sampling of many stores across multiple retail outlets and uses scientifically found statistical analysis to extrapolate sales. This is done in every other industry.

 

No, they basically make rough guesses and estimates then retroactively edit their figures after NPD releases their figures and proves them wrong. They also claim that their sources and exact methodology are confidential thus shielding it from direct scrutiny. They actually have very little in the way of direct contacts in the retail industry to draw samples from to estimate ( Because retailers charge money for sales data ). They freely admit they only have 2-3% of platform coverage based on what small retail samples they can obtain and that what sample data they could get is not on a consistent time frame ( Some of its weekly, some of it monthly, etc. Its up to the retailers ). The rest is guess work.

 

All of their figures are ultimately estimates and they will "fix" the numbers ( without mentioning it or crediting their sources ) to match after a more reputable source body such as the NPD releases their figures. They are not equipped to accurately track sales figures. Especially PC sales figures. Only try to project them. 

 

They freely admit that they are only projecting/guessing based on publicly available data ( not private / paid for retailer sales data that companies get ) and that sometimes they just flat out make it up if they have to. So no, this is not scientifically sound statistical analysis. Not even VGChartz themselves claims it is. 

[xkg]

1: exclusives

2: devs are lazy at optimising pc games

 

3: be a pro like me and have both!

 

1. Depends on preferences. There are far more exclusives for PC than for consoles that interest me. Strategy games (eg. Total War, Crusader Kings, Close Combat), various sim games (Sim City, The Sims etc.) and the list goes on. The only console serie I regret not having is Tiger Woods PGA tour. They stopped releasing it for PC few years ago. But I won't buy console only for one game.

 

2. Bugs, glitches, poor performance won't bother me if the game is good plus I can always tweak few things myself. I know it requires some experience/knowledge and some people may not want to spend time to learn how. They will choose to play on console, it's ok, I have nothing against it.

 

3. Ehh, I am past that "who's the pro" age.