636 réponses à ce sujet

[EmissaryofLies]

had the Hero of Ferelden not shown up, reinforcements would have arrived from Denerim and the Circle annulled, so its not a failure at all, even if Hawke saves some of the mages the Circle is still razed.  Who would have guessed, following the rules and behaving reasonably leads to rewards.....

 

Fiona was also tricked, i don't blame her for that.  I blame her for stupid reasoning that let her be tricked, selling people into slavery, starting a war she couldn't win, etc....

 

If they way they tend their garden means lots of people dying as a side affect you can be damn sure I'll tell them whats what

 

But I thought they were supposed to protect the mages? Not royally screw up and have to "start over" about nineteen times. I understand that they are not perfect. But every time that we see them in a circle they screw the pooch.

 

They follow rules that leave a lot of them damaged, broken, and bitter. The best part is that they are not always rewarded for doing so and that they can be abused at anytime, with recourse depending entirely upon the temperament of their KC.

 

That is a big "if" for the time being; we have no idea how exactly they handle the abominations that are out of control. "Natural disaster" can imply that they have ways of mitigating such rare events. Either way, they love their seers and their way of life works for them and affects no one else.

[Steelcan]

But I thought they were supposed to protect the mages? Not royally screw up and have to "start over" about nineteen times. I understand that they are not perfect. But every time that we see them in a circle they screw the pooch.

 

That is a big "if" for the time being; we have no idea how exactly they handle the abominations that are out of control. "Natural disaster" can imply that they have ways of mitigating such rare events. Either way, they love their seers and their way of life works for them and affects no one else.

Mages make deals with demons and Circles fall to them, it is not the templar's fault Uldred went insane

 

Moral relativism *vomits*

[Hellion Rex]

But I thought they were supposed to protect the mages? Not royally screw up and have to "start over" about nineteen times. I understand that they are not perfect. But every time that we see them in a circle they screw the pooch.

 

I don't consider an abomination being born a "screw up" from the Templars. Abominations rip the Veil and try to facilitate more possessions. This could honestly happen in minutes or seconds. The Templars do the best that they can under some extremely *expletive* circumstances. The system isn't perfect, but it has at least prevented a crap ton of demonic outbreaks.

[EmissaryofLies]

Mages make deals with demons and Circles fall to them, it is not the templar's fault Uldred went insane

 

Moral relativism *vomits*

 

The ones that were closest to Uldred failed to slay him. They screwed Kirkwall in more ways than one.

 

Thedas World Police, yuck.

[Hellion Rex]

The ones that were closest to Uldred failed to slay him. They screwed Kirkwall in more ways than one.

 

Thedas World Police, yuck.

You seem to be forgetting the fact that templars have absolutely no defense against blood magic, in the case of Uldred.

[EmissaryofLies]

I don't consider an abomination being born a "screw up" from the Templars. Abominations rip the Veil and try to facilitate more possessions. This could honestly happen in minutes or seconds. The Templars do the best that they can under some extremely *expletive* circumstances. The system isn't perfect, but it has at least prevented a crap ton of demonic outbreaks.

 

Even if you do not, what of the other 18 "annulments"? Perhaps Dairsmuid happened more than once.

 

Agreed, that their system is not perfect. Somehow Tevinter is able to fight the Qunari and have circles as academies without these outbreaks it seems...

[Eliastion]

we meet a grand total of what, six mages who aren't possessed?  (Assuming Irving survives) from a Circle of hundreds?  The odds of them dying in an Annulment are pretty slim

We hardly meet those slain/possessed hundreds, now do we? It's an argument about as valid as saying that Orzammar sent the Warden an "army" of 50 people...

Oh, and when we're counting the army,  didn't that not-annuled-in-the-end Circle give us 12 mages? If we assume similar factor of compression, that means that only counting battle-ready survivors the Circle gave us 24% of Orzammar's expeditionary army count in mages.

[The Baconer]

Moral relativism *vomits*

 

Is it, necessarily? Just during the ~1000 year establishment of the Circle system, their practices did not cause an incident that warranted such a response sooner (or even later, it seems). All within the capital of Andrastian faith in Rivain, no less.

[Steelcan]

Is it, necessarily? Just during the ~1000 year establishment of the Circle system, their practices did not cause an incident that warranted such a response sooner (or even later, it seems). All within the capital of Andrastian faith in Rivain, no less.

How would we know when there is no difference to Rivaini between a flood and an  abomination running amok?

[EmissaryofLies]

You seem to be forgetting the fact that templars have absolutely no defense against blood magic, in the case of Uldred.

 

True. Though they still cowered behind a door and did nothing to help the situation even though there were quite a few mages left that they would have slaughtered had I not intervened.

[Hellion Rex]

Even if you do not, what of the other 18 "annulments"? Perhaps Dairsmuid happened more than once.

 

Agreed, that their system is not perfect. Somehow Tevinter is able to fight the Qunari and have circles as academies without these outbreaks it seems...

You can't draw any conclusions about the other 18 b/c we know nothing about them. Thus, they are not viable examples.

 

As for Tevinter, do remember that they are the magically adept people in Thedas. They can easily fry any abomination who became a viable threat. So you can't possibly use them as an example in this argument.

[Hellion Rex]

True. Though they still cowered behind a door and did nothing to help the situation even though there were quite a few mages left that they would have slaughtered had I not intervened.

And what if during the course of sending people in, the abominations also get out? What then?

[Steelcan]

True. Though they still cowered behind a door and did nothing to help the situation even though there were quite a few mages left that they would have slaughtered had I not intervened.

better to charge into unknown enemy numbers, in defense of people they don't know are alive

[AresKeith]

True. Though they still cowered behind a door and did nothing to help the situation even though there were quite a few mages left that they would have slaughtered had I not intervened.

 

Because they was heavily outnumbered and they have no way of knowing who's an abomination or not

[Master Warder Z_]

True. Though they still cowered behind a door and did nothing to help the situation even though there were quite a few mages left that they would have slaughtered had I not intervened.

 

o.o you definitely were never a soldier.

[The Baconer]

How would we know when there is no difference to Rivaini between a flood and an  abomination running amok?

 

Because, again, it was in the capital of Andrastian influence in Rivain? Do you think the same people that purged their own population by the thousands for following the Qun would allow such practices to continue if an abomination rampage were to occur?

[Steelcan]

Because, again, it was in the capital of Andrastian influence in Rivain? Do you think the same people that purged their own population by the thousands for following the Qun would allow such practices to continue if an abomination rampage were to occur?

if they can't do anything to stop it, yeah.

 

Rivaini tradition is in favor of the Seers, a good way to end up degrading head/neck integrity is to trample all over the traditions of people you rule

[EmissaryofLies]

You can't draw any conclusions about the other 18 b/c we know nothing about them. Thus, they are not viable examples.

 

As for Tevinter, do remember that they are the magically adept people in Thedas. They can easily fry any abomination who became a viable threat. So you can't possibly use them as an example in this argument.

 

That's why I used the word "perhaps". And Dairsmuid is a great example of their capabilities, so it is possible that it happened more than once. Knowing what the Chantry believes and considering that they once were going to annul their own church because mages wouldn't light candles, it is not far fetched.

 

And why are they adept? Could it be that they do not view magic as a curse? Could it be that they do not limit their students? Vints are not the only ones who are adept btw, so yes, yes I can use them. 

[Eliastion]

You can't draw any conclusions about the other 18 b/c we know nothing about them. Thus, they are not viable examples.

 

As for Tevinter, do remember that they are the magically adept people in Thedas. They can easily fry any abomination who became a viable threat. So you can't possibly use them as an example in this argument.

If they can actually fry any abomination who became a viable threat, that means that they handle abominations better than templars and slave-Circles of Southern Thedas, meaning their system is better, you know?

 

Though I would be very cautious about bringing Tevinter into this discussion because we really don't know anything about them and their ways of handling such problems... Perhaps they defend themselves better, perhaps they are more careful, perhaps they kill abominations more efficiently, perhaps they're better at cover-ups... Or perhaps they're just too far and we just don't hear about things that happen there.

[EmissaryofLies]

o.o you definitely were never a soldier.

 

Ok?

 

And what if during the course of sending people in, the abominations also get out? What then?

 

 

They're in the middle of a lake with people on the outside that can give warning. They do not think it is worth the risk, good for them, and only them.

[Steelcan]

 

They're in the middle of a lake with people on the outside that can give warning. They do not think it is worth the risk, good for them, and only them.

I certainly don't blame them for not immediately rushing into unknown enemy numbers, after the losses they've taken, while reinforcements are on the way

[EmissaryofLies]

better to charge into unknown enemy numbers, in defense of people they don't know are alive

 

Or send a shadow/scout in. Nah, lets just wait and kill them all.

[Steelcan]

Or send a shadow/scout in. Nah, lets just wait and kill them all.

great so the scout goes in, gets mauled by an abomination and now they are one more down and still in the dark

[EmissaryofLies]

great so the scout goes in, gets mauled by an abomination and now they are one more down and still in the dark

 

If that were to happen, sure. But the opposite can also be true.

[Steelcan]

If that were to happen, sure. But the opposite can also be true.

why would they even need to send in a scout?  They know the situation, Circle fallen, abominations everywhere