The letter penned by Calpernia reads that the Seekers delivered to the Promisers precisely because they are resistant to Red Lyrium.
Just because they are resistant to it's mind control doesn't necessarily mean they are immune to it's negative effects like crystallizing organs.
The letter penned by Calpernia reads that the Seekers delivered to the Promisers precisely because they are resistant to Red Lyrium.
Resistant yes, but I'd imagine that anyone, resistant or no, would have trouble withstanding the stuff being force fed to you.
The letter penned by Calpernia reads that the Seekers delivered to the Promisers precisely because they are resistant to Red Lyrium.
I assume they were resistant to red lyrium radiation, that they can shrug off the corrupting influence of red lyrium if they are simply close to it.
Ingesting it is a whole other matter.
Maybe but is that now how we end up with Behemoths and such? Hence why would the Seekers be diferent?
As far as I know, the lore has never said that Seers have a screening process.
Besides, we are talking about alien entities completely focused on the pursuit of an impossible ideal who can't even understand the concept of time and can corrupted by something as simple as a strong belief.
Regardless of candidates, that is ridiculously dangerous.
Why would they NOT have a screening process? Do you honestly think the Rivain Seers would ignore the dangers of putting a spirit into someone like Anders?
And as I've told you, Seers obviously have a handle on spirits. They're trained for it. Otherwise it wouldn't be such a freaking tradition.
Maybe but is that now how we end up with Behemoths and such? Hence why would the Seekers be diferent?
No Behemoths only come from Red Templars who over-ingest the stuff/are force fed the mineral, and they transform into Behemoths.
I would imagine that whatever makes Seekers resistant is what prevents them from transforming. But at the same time, it appears that ingesting the substance in great quantities is simply deadly to them.
No Behemoths only come from Red Templars who over-ingest the stuff/are force fed the mineral, and they transform into Behemoths.
I would imagine that whatever makes Seekers resistant is what prevents them from transforming. But at the same time, it appears that ingesting the substance in great quantities is simply deadly to them.
Red Lyrium could just be toxic. Even without the magical effects.
The letter penned by Calpernia reads that the Seekers delivered to the Promisers precisely because they are resistant to Red Lyrium.
Off-topic: But I hope the Promisers get touched on more in future content
"one's own people" can be as broad as the person you ask.
However, the people of Thedas have divided themselves into clear groups and subgroups. humans vs elves, nations vs nations, normals vs mages.
Then how does that work in the argument of keeping mages from holding power over themselves or others?
Then how does that work in the argument of keeping mages from holding power over themselves or others?
Due to how normals and mages are two different groups and the South of Thedas (plus some North, Anderfels) was founded by normals who fought to free themselves from the influence of magic.
Due to how normals and mages are two different groups and the South of Thedas (plus some North, Anderfels) was founded by normals who fought to free themselves from the influence of magic.
Then the solution would be to segregate Thedas between mage (as they manifest) and non-mage?
No Behemoths only come from Red Templars who over-ingest the stuff/are force fed the mineral, and they transform into Behemoths.
I would imagine that whatever makes Seekers resistant is what prevents them from transforming. But at the same time, it appears that ingesting the substance in great quantities is simply deadly to them.
In Cassandra's own quest we find her apprentice with red lryium growing within him because it was forced into him.
He didn't need lyrium for his powers and he couldn't be possessed, so red lyrium was being grown in him, and apparently, so was a demon if I remember the dialogue correctly. It wasn't controlling him directly because he was a seeker, but it was within him nonetheless and he couldn't resist or fight because of th red lyrium.
If I remember correctly.
In Cassandra's own quest we find her apprentice with red lryium growing within him because it was forced into him.
He didn't need lyrium for his powers and he couldn't be possessed, so red lyrium was being grown in him, and apparently, so was a demon if I remember the dialogue correctly. It wasn't controlling him directly because he was a seeker, but it was within him nonetheless and he couldn't resist or fight because of th red lyrium.
If I remember correctly.
its not really clear
it may be in him, but not growing which would still be rather problematic
its not really clear
it may be in him, but not growing which would still be rather problematic
Yup. Now I need to replay that quest or watch it on youtube to get the exact dialogue again.
It's not a matter of bad or good governance but of autonomy.
Being ruled by one's own people should be a basic right of any group, do you deny this?
Even if you do, the mages seemingly don't because they went to war so they could rule themselves.
Therefore, the question is not whether mages make good or bad rules but whether they, by virtue of being powerful, will always end up dominating society if not kept in check as powerful creatures are wanton to do.
The fact remains that every society where mages aren't shackled is ruled by mages. Tevinter, the Dalish, Rivain, the Chasind.
But it is, undeniably, extremely dangerous. And unless there is some equally extreme reason as to why it is necessary, spirit possession means the Seers are placing the people at risk for no reason.
If there is no possession, there is no threat.
Heck, Seekers can't be possessed. Period.
1. The apparent difference between you and me is that I don't differentiate mages by virtue of them being mages. They are people, same as anyone else, born with more power and thus are subject to more accountability to their self-control and need for training, but a human mage is still a human, an elven mage is still elven, and even then they may grow up in a culture where neither their magic or their race matters. If they are born and grow up in the Qun, they are Qunari regardless of their race because that is their belief, and a Circle Mage would be very different from a mage who is trained to be an Avaar Shaman or a Rivaini Seer, regardless of race based entirely on the culture they grew up in.
I don't deny any group should have the right to rule themselves, but mages have long since lost that right based entirely on the disposition of the Knight-Commander in charge of each individual circle.
But if we go by the Circles, the mages were promised a level of autonomy when the Nevarran Accord was first signed. They were promised a place where they could freely practice magic and be governed by a council of their own enchanters because the alternative was being glorified janitors for the Chantry or being killed in an exalted march because they peacefully refused to light candles. The Right of Tranquility was meant to be used as a last resort for mages too weak to handle demons and nothing else, and there was no Right of Annulment. Fast forward to Thedas pre-Asunder and you have a system that is far different in all but technicality in form, where mages don't have autonomy because tranquility is used as a bludgeoning instrument of punishment, Annulment used without justification in Kirkwall and Rivain.
As for the war, the mages as a whole didn't go to war. A very small council after the college was attacked by Lambert before any vote of any kind was made, and even then it won by only one vote. Most mages wanted nothing to do with it. And it wasn't even a vote for war, it was a vote to separate from the Chantry because its templars had abandoned their sworn role and duty in guarding mages as well as mundanes. It was the templars who separated from the chantry so they could wipe out the mages or force them back into circles, while the chantry's position was to let the mages be, so in that point of view it was the templars and the seekers, not the mages, who wanted the war.
2. You have no proof whatsoever that the mages who aren't controlled and leashed to a circle are in control everywhere. The Dalish have mages as guides and leaders, but even they are subject to the will of the hahren, the elders of their clans. The Dalish Warden's parents went behind their clans back to bond and one of the parents was a Keeper. We have no evidence on the Chasind whatosever so you have no ground to make the claim that they are ruled by mages. In fact, there's evidence to the contrary in Mark of the Assassin with that one bodyguard of Prosper's who is a Chasind who breaks the minds of mages, and Rivain has mages as spiritual guides and honored advisors, in positions of influence but don't seem to be rulers at all. Your claim that free mages will rule is severly lacking in actual evidence beyond your own speculation laid out as fact.
And on your topic of spirit possession of the seers, if you want to make the case that it is irresponsible and dangerous, you'll need to come up with specific examples in the lore or history of thedas that shows the traditions and the very nature of the magic they practice is such that it is what you claim, whereas, as I pointed out repeatedly in debates, all the existing lore shows the exact opposite because they seem to have far better results in their system than the Circle system, and a better standard of living for its people than Tevinter, which shows they have a system in place that works and it doesn't need the Chantry or the Circles in order to function.
As for the Seekers, they can't be possessed, because they are already touched by a Fade Spirit. And that doesn't eliminate the danger of willingly working with demons like Lucius and the Envy Demon, alongside all his top lieutenants and the entirety of the the templar leadership.
Also, Cassandra's apprentice apparently had a demon in him, although it wasn't controlling him, if I remember that bit of dialogue correctly. Immune to mind control and possession, but most certainly not immune to corruption. Apparently that Book of Secrets we get from Lucius tells that the Seekers had been corrupt for a great period of time. Cassandra briefly mentions that the Seekers deliberately kept information from the Divine, the one person they answer to, in order to increase their own power and influence alongside them hiding the cure for tranquility.
Though I must be forgetting something, because I don't understand why that particular bit of information was enough to drive the Lord Seeker to lose his mind and join an insane doomsday cult.
Lord Seeker explicitly says "we Seekers are abominations". If the thing about spirits is so important in his going mad, it could be taken as more than just a figure of speach. After all we are told the Seekers have been "touched by spirit of Faith" but not what it actually means.
They're immune to mind control and possession - how? Could it be that the Faith spirit never actually goes home after coming into contact with a Seeker? And if it does indeed stick around, augmenting seeker's abilities and protecting him from possession and mind control, isn't it basically a possession in the same sense Wynne is possessed?
The ending information is far too short in all cases. A single codex detailing each ending would have been gold.
Lord Seeker explicitly says "we Seekers are abominations". If the thing about spirits is so important in his going mad, it could be taken as more than just a figure of speach. After all we are told the Seekers have been "touched by spirit of Faith" but not what it actually means.
They're immune to mind control and possession - how? Could it be that the Faith spirit never actually goes home after coming into contact with a Seeker? And if it does indeed stick around, augmenting seeker's abilities and protecting him from possession and mind control, isn't it basically a possession in the same sense Wynne is possessed?
That's my point, I suppose. It's never really explained. And if the Spirit had remained, wouldn't the host know it? Wynne and Anders both knew, so wouldn't Cassandra as well?
Wynne and Anders were both talented mages, while Cassandra has magical aptitude and training of a potato. I mean, she seriously managed to NOT notice being made tranquil... and when she actually completed her Vigil, she never even suspected some spirit was actually involved, if I remember correctly her pre-book explanation of the ritual.
I'm pretty sure she wouldn't notice a spirit sticking to her unless it tried really hard to be noticed.
That's my point, I suppose. It's never really explained. And if the Spirit had remained, wouldn't the host know it? Wynne and Anders both knew, so wouldn't Cassandra as well?
Well, they were rendered Tranquil without ever knowing, so...
Wynne and Anders were both talented mages, while Cassandra has magical aptitude and training of a potato. I mean, she seriously managed to NOT notice being made tranquil... and when she actually completed her Vigil, she never even suspected some spirit was actually involved, if I remember correctly her pre-book explanation of the ritual.
I'm pretty sure she wouldn't notice a spirit sticking to her unless it tried really hard to be noticed.
That's just it. Spirits are sentient. Why would a Spirit of Faith attempt to hide the fact that it was hanging around in someone's body?
Well, they were rendered Tranquil without ever knowing, so...
Tranquility isn't a sentient being sharing your body.
Then the solution would be to segregate Thedas between mage (as they manifest) and non-mage?
Well, they were rendered Tranquil without ever knowing, so...
Cole would know. Solas would know. She also visits the Fade and nothing happens.
Cole would know. Solas would know. She also visits the Fade and nothing happens.
Good points.
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