636 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

That is merely perspective. And each of their own. I for one think the Templars are utterly without redemption and better off dead. Besides, the circle is not gone, it still exists, it just goes by an different name. And mages have it better there were there are no templars to push them around.

Of course, and thats the baeuty of this game, you can change Thedas , go back to the status quo or start a reform in how things go, I really like my ending, its perfect to me, but I know its not for everyone.

The problem with Vivienne is that if you support her, you do it with the belief that she is going to return things back to how they were with no reforms. Thus, you should be surprised that she gives reforms. you also forget about the ending where the templars refuse to serve a mage and rebel to form their own independent group.

I supported her because I agreed with her views, I agreed on her stance about the Circle and the Order.
A mage as Divine is not "return things back to how they were",it will change Thedas views on mages.
And I dont forget about the Silver Shield (cool name BTW), I conscripted the Templars, the ones who want to join Vivienne's Templars are the one with no bigoted views on magic, its a new time for the Templars, a time for them to be Defensor of the people against magic, it will not manter if the people are mage or not, and I doubt Vivienne will allow the abuses to occur on her watch.

[crimzontearz]

Apparently it happens if Vivienne is divine, cullen doesn't take lyrium, you ally with the templars, and you don't rebuild the seekers

oh see I tell Cass to rebuild the seekers

[SgtSteel91]

Of course, and thats the baeuty of this game, you can change Thedas , go back to the status quo or start a reform in how things go, I really like my ending, its perfect to me, but I know its not for everyone.

 

Liking because of this. I don't see why people have to bash endings that other people would like.

 

I say this while preferring Divine Leliana with the College of Enchanters, but seeing that any ending is Good for all kinds of players.

[crimzontearz]

Liking because of this. I don't see why people have to bash endings that other people would like.

where was this mentality when people were criticizing those who wanted a reunion scene for ME3??? No really....

[Qun00]

Of course, and Thats the baeuty of this game, you can change Thedas , go back to the status quo or start a reform in how things go, I really like my ending, its peerfect to me, but I know its not for everyone.
I supported her because I agreed with her views, I agreed on her stance about the Circle and the Order.
A mage as Divine is not "return things back to how they were",it will change Thedas views on mages.
And I dont forget about the Silver Shield (cool name BTW), I conscripted the Templars, the ones who want to join Vivienne's Templars are the one with no bigoted views on magic, its a new time for the Templars, a time for them to be Defensor of the people against magic, it will not manter if the people are mage or not, and I doubt Vivienne will allow the abuses to occur on her watch.

Anything good that comes out of it is mere accident.

Vivienne couldn't care less about her fellow mages and their suffering.

She's a power hungry noble.

[Korva]

The devs outright said that if Leliana becomes Divine, she will change the rules for the Divine's celibacy so that she can openly be in a relationship with the Warden. So no, she will never break up with the Warden if she's Divine.

 

Ugh.

 

I like Leliana. I truly do. And I roll my eyes until they fall out of my head at people who scream "Go all grim and dark or your game is stupid and infantile!" just as much as I do at people who scream "OMG how dare you not give me and my Wun Twoo Wuv our Perfect Happy Ending!"

 

But. Leliana's ending is just too one-sided and this little nugget is the cherry on a mess of utter pandering. There should be some price to pay, some drawback, something other than just this simplistically perfect bunnies-rainbows-and-happiness outcome.

 

Yes, her combination of genuine faith and political expertise arguably make her the best candidate for Divine. Yes, I like competent NPCs instead of all power and competence resting solely with the player character. Yes, not all options for every choice need to be equal. I just feel that softened-Leliana-as-Divine is too much, too clearly the author's favourite.

 

(Cassandra is fed up with the whole surrounding protocol before it even gets started, and Vivienne's never displayed anything resembling faith rather than just a lust for as much power as she can grab. Though I'd have to give Cass the best odds for actually caring for people and remaining personally stable. Leliana see-saws too much. That is why I still can't decide who works best for me. Either way, I can't play the mage mission because it annoys me too much, so the proposed "best ending" falls apart on that point.)

[Master Warder Z_]

Honestly why is there another thread about this anyway.

[Steelcan]

Anything good that comes out of it is mere accident.

Vivienne couldn't care less about her fellow mages and their suffering.

She's a power hungry noble.

A. She's not noble

B. She makes life better for mages

[samb]

I thought if Leliana became Divine she would have a sercret police that waged a shadow war with her detractors.  She was a reformer, but one that forced it on others.  Not sure if this is her hardened version of not.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Hardened Leliana + Free mages = Works for me.

Soft Leliana + Free mages = Leliana is dead in under a year and another rebellion starts.

[Steelcan]

I thought if Leliana became Divine she would have a sercret police that waged a shadow war with her detractors.  She was a reformer, but one that forced it on others.  Not sure if this is her hardened version of not.

hardened Leliana goes on a murder spree, softened talks everyone down presumably while holding hands

[Qun00]

What you call it is irrelevant. Vivienne's motivation boils down to a woman of high social status craving to ascend to a seat of power.

Of course. That is, assuming mages were happy the way things were before. Which... they absolutely were not.

[crimzontearz]

hardened Leliana goes on a murder spree, softened talks everyone down presumably while holding hands

oh maker kumbaya

[Steelcan]

What you call it is irrelevant. Vivienne's motivation boils down to a woman of high social status craving to ascend to a seat of power.

Of course. That is, assuming mages were happy the way things were before. Which... they absolutely ****** weren't.

Since when is ambition a bad thing?  All achievement and progress is due to ambition.

 

She gives them more independence and leashes the templars further, so I don't see your point

[Todrazok]

Not at all, infact alot of players do not like having Leliana as the Divine for various reasons. This in my view is a major pro to Inquisition in general compared to the previous games, most of the choices rightfully feel grey and we'll probably be debating over what is the so called best outcome for years to come.

[Master Warder Z_]

I think the endings were all horriblely done to be honest.

A cheap last minute cop out to make radical unprecedented change.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think the endings were all horriblely done to be honest.

A cheap last minute cop out to make radical unprecedented change.

Yep

[Qun00]

Since when is ambition a bad thing?  All achievement and progress is due to ambition.
 
She gives them more independence and leashes the templars further, so I don't see your point

Only when it's vanity driven.

So making the writing more coherent is in order, because during her dialogue at Haven she says the little freedom mages had in the Circles already was more than they deserved.

Vivienne is very Templar minded, and not the good ones like Cullen.

[Steelcan]

Only when it's vanity driven.

So making the writing more coherent is in order, because during her dialogue at Haven she says the little freedom mages had in the Circles already was more than they deserved.

Vivienne is very Templar minded, and not the good ones like Cullen.

the results of her as divine serve against your argument

[StrangeStrategy]

<sub>So, what happens to the mages who aren't the Bright Hand (AKA, The Worst of what mages represent) how are they dealt with? If they should attack a village or turn into abominations, how could the Templars reach them in time?

I like to think that mages are generally good, but the Circles are for the bad mages. And because they can cause so much damage so quickly they need to be dealt with immediately, and it isn't possible to have a Templar outpost in every little village in Thedas. No, I still think Circles are for the best.</sub>

 

_{The Circles may irritate some, but its for the good of the many. Vivienne increases mage right's, soooo... I think she knows what must be done.}
 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Not at all, infact alot of players do not like having Leliana as the Divine for various reasons. This in my view is a major pro to Inquisition in general compared to the previous games, most of the choices rightfully feel grey and we'll probably be debating over what is the so called best outcome for years to come.

Unless they do what they did to the Bhelen vs. Harrowmont choice and make future games show off how much better Divine Leliana is in pretty much every single way that they might as well say anyone who didn't pick Leliana made the wrong choice. I would pay to see pro-templar faces if/when that happens.

[Steelcan]

Unless they do what they did to the Bhelen vs. Harrowmont choice and make future games show off how much better Divine Leliana is in pretty much every single way that they might as well say anyone who didn't pick Leliana made the wrong choice.

Oh great and glorious one, how did we ever survive without you to tell us what the best choices are

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh great and glorious one, how did we ever survive without you to tell us what the best choices are

To be honest I never had a problem with putting either on the throne.

Both are adequate.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Oh great and glorious one, how did we ever survive without you to tell us what the best choices are

I didn't say Leliana was the best choice even though I think she is, what I said was that Bioware may make Divine Leliana so much better than the other candidates like how Bhelen is better in practically every way to Harrowmont as revealed in Inquisition that they might as well have said anyone who chose Harrowmont is wrong. Now this comment just makes me hope something like this happens with Leliana just so you can rage.

[Steelcan]

I didn't say Leliana was the best choice even though I think she is, what I said was that Bioware may make Divine Leliana so much better than the other candidates like how Bhelen is better in practically every way to Harrowmont as revealed in Inquisition that they might as well have said anyone who chose Harrowmont is wrong. Now this comment just makes me hope something like this happens with Leliana just so you can rage.

Enjoy your inevitable retcon