510 réponses à ce sujet

[Barrendall]

I have to admit I'm disappointed as well with some of the changes. I enjoyed the addition of other types of demons such as horror and despair, but I'm curious why it was at the cost of Sloth and Desire.  If I remember correctly they wrote a codex explaining something about Sloth but my philosophy is that if it isn't broke don't fix it.  I'm of the same mind about the Darkspawn.  DA2 totally ruined the darkspawn model (minus the Ogre), and DAI left out every species of Darkspawn except the Hurlock, and it's still the lame zombie dropout from DA2, not the horrific monster construct born from a broodmother in DA:O.  What happened to the Ogres, Genlocks, and Shrieks?  (Although admittedly Shrieks were a bit disappointing...).  This is just my opinion however.

[DirkJake]

How exactly does having topless monsters make the game 'darker'?

[BSpud]

Bigots aren't very bright.

[Terodil]

There's at least one that's honourable though, and pretty awesome in general.
 
Reading through this thread again and thinking back on similar discussions brought up a question again...
 
Would anybody actually like to define 'mature' for a change? It gets bandied around a lot in such threads, and it seems to flop from one end of the spectrum to the other. I find it quite difficult to understand because it's a summary term for a lot of different qualities, and seems highly dependent on cultural context (just consider "Nipplegate" for a moment, which caused an outrage in the US and barely elicited a crooked smile in Europe).

- Why is DA:I (im)mature for not including desire demons?
- Why is having romances in RPGs (im)mature?
- (from previous page) Why is 'SAW' (im)mature?

I think the problem with "(im)mature" is that it implies a value statement. Mature = good, immature = bad. That injects bad blood into the discussion.

I miss:
- desire demons
- 'evil' choices
- violence
- humour
- emotionally touching stories
- controversial topics
- ...

Would their inclusion make DA more mature? I dunno. It would definitely make it more interesting, and less bland, for my tastes.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Desire demon and brood mother romance confirmed DA4.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

i like being immature, i giggle when i see pixelated intestines flying around. i squeed when my Warden shanked dying soldier in the Korkari Wilds "he's dead now. can we go?", i love Alistair's reaction and the dark humour of this scene :3

 

nudity isn't mature either, it seems more like something teenager would be grinning at 'yay, breasts!'. that's not something i pesonally care about, i wouldn't mind if it was gone completely from games, i'm a strange person like that. brood mothers are missed tho - the idea of how they are created is creepy. and i like creepy, there's mature content, right there, hidden very deep - so it can connect on emotional level (the poem, right?), but so subtle you can stare at the monster and imagine a bra instead. that was dark. not how they looked.

 

i have enough serious/morally gray/time-consuming content IRL, thank you.

[TheOgre]

i like being immature, i giggle when i see pixelated intestines flying around. i squeed when my Warden shanked dying soldier in the Korkari Wilds "he's dead now. can we go?", i love Alistair's reaction and the dark humour of this scene :3

 

nudity isn't mature either, it seems more like something teenager would be grinning at 'yay, breasts!'. that's not something i pesonally care about, i wouldn't mind if it was gone completely from games, i'm a strange person like that. brood mothers are missed tho - the idea of how they are created is creepy. and i like creepy, there's mature content, right there, hidden very deep - so it can connect on emotional level (the poem, right?), but so subtle you can stare at the monster and imagine a bra instead. that was dark. not how they looked.

 

i have enough serious/morally gray/time-consuming content IRL, thank you.

 

Female desire demons at least always brought some kind of dark fucked up cost to get what you wanted from them.

 

Imshael, "let me live and i'll give you virgins!"

 

Okay buddy.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

i like the idea Imshael represents... a choice. too bad devs made him into a demon 

[TheOgre]

i like the idea Imshael represents... a choice. too bad devs made him into a demon 

 

He did give us choices, I will concede..

 

All of them were really lame because I could kill and get them though.

[Lumix19]

Desire and Sloth Demons are more the subtle type, manipulating and making deals. Doesn't really fit when Corypheus only used demons as soldiers. Envy and Imshael being the obvious exceptions.

[daveliam]

How does a topic about broodmothers, desire demons and blood/gore turn into a sexual orientation political debate?

 

Because people are getting their talking points confused.  This was meant to be a "the feminists are ruining the video game industry" type of thread, but someone got confused and turned it into a "the gay agenda is being forced down my throat" thread.  I've yet to see (in 15 pages) a single point that explains why the LGBT community has anything to do with the removal of desire demons.......  Just goes to show how weak those arguments actually are, since people are just throwing them about interchangeably, huh?

[Terodil]

@Your Honour: Nipplegate, a world-shaking crisis of modern civilisation. To be admired e.g. here: http://en.wikipedia....how_controversy

 

@daveliam: You really confused me now with your assertion that this thread was "meant to be a 'the feminists are ruining the video game industry' type of thread". Here's the OP, and for the life of me I cannot see any allusion to LGBT. Which would be rather silly IMO anyway.

 

I read the OP as requesting more controversial diversity, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Here's the OP verbatim:

 

Notice how much more PC the monsters are? 

Brood mothers were gross but at least they were compelling... there are no compelling, hideous, and gross monsters in DAI... maybe the thing in the fade, but one's not enough.

Darkspawn have gone from hideous monsters to tiny soldier variations.

Desire demons are just staples of the series... inclusive is fine, but the devs seem too quick to throw away the past of dragon age, like with the new qunari. The arishok was a scary dude, there's no way to replicate his look in the character creator, the eyes, the look aren't even an option.

Everyone is so bloody pretty.

 

And ofc the last sentence I don't agree with at all, since prettiness seems to have been replaced with a boring average.

[Fredward]

[Saphiron123]

You know what, to save this discussion on dark and mature, I'm going with "Gritty". The fact I chose broodmothers and desire demons and both were females were strictly coincidental. They were cooler, creepier and more horrible then anything in DAI. 

It was never about boobs, folks. It's about  "holy crap, most rpgs don't have stuff this messed up" which, when origins came out, sort of set it apart... a gritty kind of world with awesome characterization and story.

Dark, but amazing.

[TheOgre]

You know what, to save this discussion on dark and mature, I'm going with "Gritty". The fact I chose broodmothers and desire demons and both were females were strictly coincidental. They were cooler, creepier and more horrible then anything in DAI. 

It was never about boobs, folks. It's about  "holy crap, most rpgs don't have stuff this messed up" which, when origins came out, sort of set it apart... a gritty kind of world with awesome characterization and story.

Dark, but amazing.

 

Imshael probably wouldn't have been such a bore for me if they made him look more.. demon like, and not a clone demon -.- It didn't help that all of his "choices" were easily to be gained just through a kill. He had no real "I'll give you the power of a blood mage" in exchange for the soul of a child. "let me live and you'll never deal with me again!". Your reward for letting him off the hook? Not killing him and taking all the things he would have given you if you did kill him.

 

I feel like the boobs argument trivializes it and makes it immature, just as arguing there's nothing "dark" about desire demons. It's a lazy argument that tends to win on the PC vs Anti PC threads.

[Saphiron123]

Imshael probably wouldn't have been such a bore for me if they made him look more.. demon like, and not a clone demon -.- It didn't help that all of his "choices" were easily to be gained just through a kill. He had no real "I'll give you the power of a blood mage" in exchange for the soul of a child. "let me live and you'll never deal with me again!". Your reward for letting him off the hook? Not killing him and taking all the things he would have given you if you did kill him.

 

I feel like the boobs argument trivializes it and makes it immature, just as arguing there's nothing "dark" about desire demons. It's a lazy argument that tends to win on the PC vs Anti PC threads.

True, also he din't have a unique form... rage demon, pride demon etc... nothing special there.

And no reason to agree, nothing even slightly tempting was offered.

He was a terrible desire demon.

[KaiserShep]

Imshael probably wouldn't have been such a bore for me if they made him look more.. demon like, and not a clone demon -.- It didn't help that all of his "choices" were easily to be gained just through a kill. He had no real "I'll give you the power of a blood mage" in exchange for the soul of a child. "let me live and you'll never deal with me again!". Your reward for letting him off the hook? Not killing him and taking all the things he would have given you if you did kill him.

 

I feel like the boobs argument trivializes it and makes it immature, just as arguing there's nothing "dark" about desire demons. It's a lazy argument that tends to win on the PC vs Anti PC threads.

 

I don't really care what he looks like, I would have just liked better options. Personally I never really cared much about the desire demons in the past games. I don't recall any of them ever really offering the PC anything worthwhile. The most interesting instance, to me, was when the desire demon made Isabela attack Hawke in the Fade. There was that Templar in the Circle in DA:O, but all's I can say is "meh", it was just some creepy thing that turned him into a mini boss.

 

What I would have liked would be a better reward for doing something terrible. I like that Michel can die, but I want something that would actually tempt the player beyond simply having whatever drama comes with the death. Give me a special power or a unique class-specific weapon, maybe lots of gold, like that demon in the Asunder quest.