510 réponses à ce sujet

[SkyKing]

Tell me why the tiniest thing that challenges your worldview apparently makes you lose your goddamn mind.

 

Furthermore, if you hate the game and are so certain that Bioware has gone off the rails into SJW la-la land, tell me why you're still here and posting. Nothing you say is going to have any effect on the direction they take. Thankfully.

 

Because I don't play games for preach sessions.  Do you know the difference between having a gay character in the game and a preach session? 

 

Nothing I say will have any effect on the direction they take?  Obviously that's untrue, if the feminists didn't complain about the desire demon, it would still be there.  If LGBT didn't complain about no preach sessions they wouldn't be there.  So if more people complain about them putting them in the game and the majority don't want it, then they may reverse course.  

[AutumnWitch]

It's fact. Do you want me to pull up the story where the lead developer, a gay man, is intereviewed and speaks about how he feels he must insert gay issues into the game because gay issues are important to talk about and how he is always having to consider if he is putting enough in so it's not ignored but not too much where everybody feels it's shoved down their throats?   It's right here..... http://www.gamespot....r/1100-6417843/  I and many others don't want ANY gay rights issues in the games.  I don't play video games to hear stupid gay rights preach sessions.  If they want gay characters in the game that's fine, but leave the stupid preach sessions out of it! 

 

Dude no one is forcing you to play the fecking game.

 

What you are really saying here is that you resent that there is a inclusion of something in a game that you don't like. So you come here and ****** and moan about it instead of going somewhere else to play a game you do like. You don't like the game? Don't play it and take your money elsewhere. Bioware is fully aware their games are not for everyone.

 

The real issue here that you are bitching because you didn't get the game catered just to your own specific taste. You sound like a whinny little boy who got the wrong present for Christmas. I am so effing tired of people like you going on and on ad nauseam about this and other issues about DAI. We get it, you don't like it, Then go away and play something else if you dislike it so much. I'll hold the door open for you.

 

/rant

[tmp7704]

Here is the difference between LGBT elements being preachy or not preachy.  If it was not preachy, then Dorian would have merely been a gay character and left at that.  Here are the preachy elements,  when dorian says he is gay, "dialogue option: What do you mean you are into men" - to get a preach session.

You do realize what option means, right?

"Ye gods, I got a preachy lecture after I chose to ask for a preachy lecture!"

[FKA_Servo]

I wonder if you ever took a moment to think about what you swallow from TV and pondered whether what they shove down your throat is actually what is coherent with your knowledge about the world, scientific knowledge and  values which you follow, if you follow any. 

 

I would also question your knowledge about methodology of research within the field of psychology and other social sciences. Not to mention objective analysis of statistical data. Do you even knwo what you base your "worldview" on? 

 

I don't watch TV.

 

But my response to you there was probably excessive and certainly unjustified, and I apologize. I'll edit my post presently.

 

I stand by my original statement - the people who disdain political correctness use that disdain without fail to justify intolerance and ignorance. It all comes down to empathy and decency, and those are the things which inform my worldview, if you're interested. For some of the posters in this thread, Gaider's article is spot on - the mere existence, and mention of homosexuality drives them friggin' nuts. That makes no sense.

 

There is no rational argument against it - nowhere in science, nowhere in history, nowhere in the world - that justifies the extreme homophobia that is present all over the world (and which is frequently on display in this forum).

[SkyKing]

Dude no one is forcing you to play the fecking game.

 

What you are really saying here is that you resent that there is a inclusion of something in a game that you don't like. So you come here and ****** and moan about it instead of going somewhere else to play a game you do like. You don't like the game? Don't play it and take your money elsewhere. Bioware is fully aware their games are not for everyone.

 

The real issue here that you are bitching because you didn't get the game catered just to your own specific taste. You sound like a whinny little boy who got the wrong present for Christmas. I am so effing tired of people like you going on and on ad nauseam about this and other issues about DAI. We get it, you don't like it, Then go away and play something else if you dislike it so much. I'll hold the door open for you.

 

/rant

 

If you would like to send me a full refund for the game, since it wasn't predisclosed, then I'll accept that.  

[SkyKing]

You do realize what option means, right?

"Ye gods, I got a preachy lecture after I chose to ask for a preachy lecture!"

You didn't if you did his personal quest or with Krem.  Unless you just avoided talking to them altogether. 

[FKA_Servo]

Because I don't play games for preach sessions.  Do you know the difference between having a gay character in the game and a preach session? 

 

Nothing I say will have any effect on the direction they take?  Obviously that's untrue, if the feminists didn't complain about the desire demon, it would still be there.  If LGBT didn't complain about no preach sessions they wouldn't be there.  So if more people complain about them putting them in the game and the majority don't want it, then they may reverse course.  

 

But you've made it clear that if this gay character does or says anything that might be construed as "gay" that you'll regard it as a "preach" session.

 

If you don't like what Bioware does, then play a different game. Play the witcher.

[Zatche]

Because I don't play games for preach sessions. Do you know the difference between having a gay character in the game and a preach session?

Nothing I say will have any effect on the direction they take? Obviously that's untrue, if the feminists didn't complain about the desire demon, it would still be there. If LGBT didn't complain about no preach sessions they wouldn't be there. So if more people complain about them putting them in the game and the majority don't want it, then they may reverse course.

You haven't exactly stated why you don't like the preach sessions. What about the gay "agenda" is insulting/threatening to you? Many people would find Dorian's story at least sympathetic if not relateable. How is it diminishing your experience playing DAI?

[Feranel]

You didn't if you did his personal quest or with Krem.  Unless you just avoided talking to them altogether. 

 

This is patently false, when you meet the chargers, immediately following Krem's comment about Iron Bull's "breasts" you can pick "what about the rest of your crew" to skip all dialogue about Krem's gender and move right along to meeting the rest of the crew.  When talking to Krem, you can pick all the options about the chargers or iron bull or w/e without having any discussion of gender.  When talking to Bull about Krem you can merely ask about Krem's political status as tevinter citizen, and whether bull is worried about working with a 'vint, the people he's been at war with forever.

[Winged Silver]

Here is the difference between LGBT elements being preachy or not preachy.  If it was not preachy, then Dorian would have merely been a gay character and left at that.  Here are the preachy elements,  when dorian says he is gay, "dialogue option: What do you mean you are into men" - to get a preach session.  Then his personal quest, no idea what the personal quest is about but once it happens then it's a whole story on being oppressed for being gay and his daddy trying to change him. All dialogue options are for supporting him only.  Then with Krem, it didn't stop after Krem saying what he is, then Ironbull and and other dialogue going on and on about it.     NONE of that dialogue and options are for the LGBT community.  Gay people won't be asking what it means to be gay, or wanting a game where the gay character isn't accepted by their father for being gay,  ALL of those elements were put in for the NON LGBT community to be preach sessions and to push their agenda.  

 

I recall selecting that option out of curiosity my first run though, and didn't think much of it. My second runthrough, I didn't bother because it was clear what he meant. I can see that selection being there for anyone who's somehow now aware of different sexualities, but the simplest answer seems to be not to select, since what he means is heavily implied. As for Dorian's personal quest revolving around his sexuality - well it's his personal quest. If the writers felt that the best option for character growth for Dorian was to include the tensions between him and his father, than they certainly have that right! And not everything revolved around issues like that. Sera never mentioned her sexuality. She discussed traits she found attractive in banters, but in general conversation her preferences never came up. 

 

As for Iron Bull and Krem, the only thing I can say is that I kind of laughed when Iron Bull interpreted my question judgmentally. There, I can agree that it would have been reasonable to take a more calm approach, seeing as this is the first opportunity we've had to meet a character who was designed to be transgender. My second run through, I simply didn't ask, and all went well. And not asking questions is a thing one can do. Bioware has also had some of the question dialog in the past illicit strong responses. I recall Merrill in DA2 disapproving if you asked her if her blood magic was responsible for killing Pol.

 

And I'm going to go on a limb here, but I'm going to say that you're going off thin evidence when you state that LGBT people wouldn't want a mission about a father not accepting his son because of his sexuality. Perhaps some wouldn't, for a variety of reasons, but I can say that there are certainly some who did, in fact, appreciate moments like those in the game. Bioware can't please everyone, but just because something seemed off to one person doesn't mean that everyone else also found it to be so. 

[SkyKing]

I don't watch TV.

 

But my response to you was probably excessive and unjustified, and I apologize. I'll edit my post presently.

 

I stand by my original statement - the people who disdain political correctness use that disdain without fail to justify intolerance and ignorance. It all comes down to empathy and decency, and those are the things which inform my worldview, if you're interested. For some of the posters in this thread, Gaider's article is spot on - the mere existence, and mention of homosexuality drives them friggin' nuts. That makes no sense.

 

There is no rational argument against it - nowhere in science, nowhere in history, nowhere in the world - that justifies the extreme homophobia that is present all over the world (and which is frequently on display in this forum).

 

Ok, from here on, EVERY videogame must have these elements included,  quests about how blacks are oppressed and police target them, about how islam and muslims are oppressed because they are the religion of peace, about how mexicans shouldn't be forced to immigrate legally and illegal ones should be allowed to stay, about how people in africa are hungry, about how the poor should get more welfare and benefits.   All tv shows and video games should have all of these issues in every game and show and if not then they should be blacklisted and protested until they put all those things in their games and shows.  Have every issue for everything in every game and every show.  And if you complain then you are just being a hater because you should have no problem having all the issues in your face on all the tv shows and video games you play.  

[FKA_Servo]

Ok, from here on, EVERY videogame must have these elements included,  quests about how blacks are oppressed and police target them, about how islam and muslims are oppressed because they are the religion of peace, about how mexicans shouldn't be forced to immigrate legally and illegal ones should be allowed to stay, about how people in africa are hungry, about how the poor should get more welfare and benefits.   All tv shows and video games should have all of these issues in every game and show and if not then they should be blacklisted and protested until they put all those things in their games and shows.  Have every issue for everything in every game and every show.  And if you complain then you are just being a hater because you should have no problem having all the issues in your face on all the tv shows and video games you play.  

 

This, again, is just too easy. So we'll just let it stand and speak for itself.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

So much truth right there. They have been shoving it down our throats for years now. I wish they kept their socio-political stances out of their games.

 

I was so rolling my eyes with the Krem situation. I was like..."really Bioware?" And then the whole speech by Iron Bull almost trying to justify Krem's identity.

 

I wanted to throw up. Not because of the character, but because of how blatantly Bioware was shoving their SJW agenda down my throat... which is one of the many reasons I will not spend a penny on a BW game again.

 

I won't support this.

 

 

 

Then why are you posting here? 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Ok, from here on, EVERY videogame must have these elements included,  quests about how blacks are oppressed and police target them, about how islam and muslims are oppressed because they are the religion of peace, about how mexicans shouldn't be forced to immigrate legally and illegal ones should be allowed to stay, about how people in africa are hungry, about how the poor should get more welfare and benefits.   All tv shows and video games should have all of these issues in every game and show and if not then they should be blacklisted and protested until they put all those things in their games and shows.  Have every issue for everything in every game and every show.  And if you complain then you are just being a hater because you should have no problem having all the issues in your face on all the tv shows and video games you play.  

 

You simply are going to have to deal with it. The world we live in sucks. We all have to come to terms with it. Popular culture as always been the mirror held up to the world to show what is wrong with our world and helps some of us with compassion and decency learn how to deal with it, People like you not so much.   

[SkyKing]

You haven't exactly stated why you don't like the preach sessions. What about the gay "agenda" is insulting/threatening to you? Many people would find Dorian's story at least sympathetic if not relateable. How is it diminishing your experience playing DAI?

 

Because a preach session is stepping out of the game, putting the game on hold, to consider/discuss/contemplate an issue not related to the game or even tv show.  For example in downton abbey, thomas is a gay butler, the setting of the show is the late 1800's/early 1900's.  There is a whole episode with the Lord and lead characters saying how times are changing and being gay shouldn't be judged, etc.  That would NOT have happened during that time period, that whole episode was stopping the show for a preach session, inserting those things in a time period when in reality he would have been judged, jailed, etc.  It atleast would have been somewhat possible if it was the personal choice of the lord of the manor to say he doesn't agree with things, but he said times are changed and that's all a thing of the past.  

 

Now in this game, if they didn't put the Dorian preach session in, what would his personal quest have been like? He was a tevinter mage who has left his people, could have been a great story, instead it's a preach session w/ his parent not being accepting.  

 

When playing a game, it's an escape to another world. When fighting monsters, saving the world, etc, then suddenly a preach session it's like stopping the game for an announcement from LGBT activists about gay issues before resuming the real game.  

[In Exile]

Suffice to say:
If a desire demon is meant to represent what one finds attractive, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like the way mine would look.

Plus, a hot dude desire demon can really vary. Someone who wants an Iron Bull might not be happy with a Fenris.

[berelinde]

Because I don't play games for preach sessions.  Do you know the difference between having a gay character in the game and a preach session? 

 

Nothing I say will have any effect on the direction they take?  Obviously that's untrue, if the feminists didn't complain about the desire demon, it would still be there.  If LGBT didn't complain about no preach sessions they wouldn't be there.  So if more people complain about them putting them in the game and the majority don't want it, then they may reverse course.  

Alright, I was one of the people who complained about the desire demons. If there had to be objectification, I wanted it to be equal objectification. It isn't a tough concept to grasp. It doesn't strike me as feminism as much as basic fairness. Nor do I think that my stated dislike of the female-only desire demon had any influence whatsoever on the decision to change things up. I'm just one person, and an insignificant one at that. I do think the developers might have realized that they had exhausted the current design concept's potential. Every game has succubi, and they all look and act the same. It's been done before, many many times, and it's trite.

 

And what wound up in the game was so much better than what I asked for! Hey, I was just tired of the same old jewelry-jiggling song and dance, but they went and wrote in a really fun encounter. As far as I'm concerned, they knocked it out of the park with that one. Genre savvy? Of course! But it was entertaining.

[FKA_Servo]

Because a preach session is stepping out of the game, putting the game on hold, to consider/discuss/contemplate an issue not related to the game or even tv show.  For example in downton abbey, thomas is a gay butler, the setting of the show is the late 1800's/early 1900's.  There is a whole episode with the Lord and lead characters saying how times are changing and being gay shouldn't be judged, etc.  That would NOT have happened during that time period, that whole episode was stopping the show for a preach session, inserting those things in a time period when in reality he would have been judged, jailed, etc.  It atleast would have been somewhat possible if it was the personal choice of the lord of the manor to say he doesn't agree with things, but he said times are changed and that's all a thing of the past.  

 

Now in this game, if they didn't put the Dorian preach session in, what would his personal quest have been like? He was a tevinter mage who has left his people, could have been a great story, instead it's a preach session w/ his parent not being accepting.  

 

When playing a game, it's an escape to another world. When fighting monsters, saving the world, etc, then suddenly a preach session it's like stopping the game for an announcement from LGBT activists about gay issues before resuming the real game.  

 

Dorian's "preach" session didn't interrupt your monster fighting and world saving. You visited his book nook during some downtime and asked him what was up. He told you.

 

His issues and situation are not at all out of place in Thedas, which (and this bears repeating, apparently) is not actually the real world, and does not actually represent a real time period.

 

If it bothers you so much, you can metagame this all away. Don't recruit Bull. Don't recruit Dorian. Don't recruit Sera. Problem pretty much solved.

[SkyKing]

But you've made it clear that if this gay character does or says anything that might be construed as "gay" that you'll regard it as a "preach" session.

 

If you don't like what Bioware does, then play a different game. Play the witcher.

Quote me where I've made that clear,  I've made quite the opposite clear.  

 

As for if I don't like bioware does, play a different game?  How about if the feminist and LGBT community didn't like the bioware games, they make their own games instead of protesting bioware to make these changes then telling everybody who didn't like what THEY complained about to change to then play a different game.  They complained to change those things, so I'll complain to change them back and if you don't like it, then YOU play a different game.  

[TheOgre]

Hahaha I know this isn't exactly what is happening..

Just imagined a lot if people piling up and beating up the guy that doesn't agree with their stance.. In a cartoony fashion..

But the hostility in the post, would like that to die down a bit..

[tmp7704]

You didn't if you did his personal quest or with Krem.  Unless you just avoided talking to them altogether.

Like Feranel pointed out already you can go through Bull's quest and talk with Krem about many things (including getting war table missions) without ever bringing up this subject. It's in fact how I played my game so I can verify Feranel is right in this regard and you are not.

[FKA_Servo]

Quote me where I've made that clear,  I've made quite the opposite clear.  

 

As for if I don't like bioware does, play a different game?  How about if the feminist and LGBT community didn't like the bioware games, they make their own games instead of protesting bioware to make these changes then telling everybody who didn't like what THEY complained about to change to then play a different game.  They complained to change those things, so I'll complain to change them back and if you don't like it, then YOU play a different game.  

 

Bioware has been sneaking this stuff in for more than ten years now. Since long before the evil shifty feminists and el gee bee tees noticed and started paying attention.

 

It's Bioware's choice and preference to include this stuff. No one "forced" them into adopting this direction. Some people just noticed and liked what they saw.

[Zatche]

Stories have always had themes that relate to real life. Dragon Age has many other themes besides gay issues that relate to real life, that aren't just escapism. Corruption in government. People doing dumb things out of desperation. The atrocities of war and the hardships of refugees. Why are you so focused on hating on this one?

[FKA_Servo]

Alright, I was one of the people who complained about the desire demons. If there had to be objectification, I wanted it to be equal objectification. It isn't a tough concept to grasp. It doesn't strike me as feminism as much as basic fairness. Nor do I think that my stated dislike of the female-only desire demon had any influence whatsoever on the decision to change things up. I'm just one person, and an insignificant one at that. I do think the developers might have realized that they had exhausted the current design concept's potential. Every game has succubi, and they all look and act the same. It's been done before, many many times, and it's trite.

 

And what wound up in the game was so much better than what I asked for! Hey, I was just tired of the same old jewelry-jiggling song and dance, but they went and wrote in a really fun encounter. As far as I'm concerned, they knocked it out of the park with that one. Genre savvy? Of course! But it was entertaining.

 

Apparently the notion of that the females might wanna do some gazin' (or "gayzin" as it were) is completely alien to some people.

[SkyKing]

Bioware has been sneaking this stuff in for more than ten years now. Since long before the evil shifty feminists and el gee bee tees noticed and started paying attention.

 

It's Bioware's choice and preference to include this stuff. No one "forced" them into adopting this direction. Some people just noticed and liked what they saw.

 

You are ignorant then.  Many tv, video game, etc, companies are bullied into adopting those things.  Threatened with bad PR for being against equality, rights, etc, if they don't comply, etc.  You only need look at some of the top LGBT activist organization websites about their tactics, sending messages and emails, scouring for things that don't include their content and what to write/threaten about, pressuring for their changes, etc.   A lot of these things in shows and games, etc, are not the company itself thinking they should do it, but because of activists and threats of having a bad public image if they don't comply, etc.