510 réponses à ce sujet

[Poison_Berrie]

It's fact. Do you want me to pull up the story where the lead developer, a gay man, is intereviewed and speaks about how he feels he must insert gay issues into the game because gay issues are important to talk about and how he is always having to consider if he is putting enough in so it's not ignored but not too much where everybody feels it's shoved down their throats?   It's right here..... http://www.gamespot....r/1100-6417843/  I and many others don't want ANY gay rights issues in the games.  I don't play video games to hear stupid gay rights preach sessions.  If they want gay characters in the game that's fine, but leave the stupid preach sessions out of it! 

It's an article specifically focused on the issue of including gay focused content into games and inclusiveness in games. This doesn't mean that all Gaider is focused on is doing gay content.

 

Then wouldn't they call this demon something else? Honestly man, the game has desire female demons form the same universe. Why are they locked to one form and he isn't? I can blindly accuse them of saying this desire demon was far more powerful than the female desire demons, this being men are more powerful.. The fucked up thing is I could probably be on to something there.

Shall I tell you a secret...

It's because they didn't make the f-ing model!

Why didn't we see a sloth demon get their own form? How come there are no Darkspawn Emissaries around in DA:I? Why are some bosses nothing more than reskinned or high health regular enemies?

 

It costs time and money to make these enemies. If they feel the need to include the other enemies over a desire demon. You know like they did with the "male" desire demon ingame, who just takes a the form of a few other demons.

[SkyKing]

Well if you are talking about nudity, the only characters that get naked are Cass, Cullen, Dorian, Sera, and femquisitor. So the nudity actually IS pretty evenly distributed.

 

No it's not.  Cass is a real quick nip slip. Look on youtube and compare.  

[daveliam]

Either bare chests is nudity for both, or it is nudity for neither. There is no middle ground that makes sense. The fact there is a middle ground is nothing but a double standard.

Sounds like an issue you have with societal double standards then. But it doesn't change the fact that bare cheated males are not considered nude.

[Rawgrim]

DA feels like a generic PG-13 fantasy "movie" now. Used to be Game of Thrones. Now it is Percy Jackson.

 

 

Side note. As a straight male gamer, I do not feel like the inclusion of "gay elements" oppresses me in any way. If anything it makes the society in Thedas feel more real and alive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sounds like an issue you have with societal double standards then. But it doesn't change the fact that bare cheated males are not considered nude.

Just because something isn't considered as something doesn't mean it isn't. 

 

The fact is that both The Iron Bull and Male Inquisitor have nude models that are used in the game, thus they count as being nude. 

[daveliam]

No it's not. Cass is a real quick nip slip. Look on youtube and compare.

I've seen the Cass scene. It's comparable to Dorian's scene and more extensive than Cullen's.

[SkyKing]

Can you really say that what they're doing isn't what they want to do, and it just happens to match up somewhat with this nebulous "agenda?" Gaider's interview, linked earlier, is pretty sincere and thoughtful. And honestly, the people who rail on about how this stuff doesn't have any place in gaming... just don't get it. They don't get context, they don't get art, and they don't get social criticism. Or literary criticism, for that matter.

 

Like I said, Bioware's writers didn't consult focus groups or the blagosphere to put inclusive content in in the first place. They did it because they wanted to. They're also free to ignore what the players want (and they do - frequently).

 

You are talking as if Gaider is straight and WANTS to include these things.  Did you miss the article I linked that Gaider is gay and WANT to put gay issues into the games?  As lead developer, if bioware said no, he'd call 1 800 LGBT ACTIVIST. But anyway, you spin it like a gay person would NOT want to put gay things into their game.  In his interview he's admitted to being an activist, so he is putting some lgbt activist agenda into the game.  

[FKA_Servo]

You are talking as if Gaider is straight and WANTS to include these things.  Did you miss the article I linked that Gaider is gay and WANT to put gay issues into the games?  As lead developer, if bioware said no, he'd call 1 800 LGBT ACTIVIST. But anyway, you spin it like a gay person would NOT want to put gay things into their game.  In his interview he's admitted to being an activist, so he is putting some lgbt activist agenda into the game.  

 

Jesus christ, I'm talking as if he's a sincere human being. You're ridiculous.

 

So you don't mind gay characters, but as soon as you know they're gay, you're being preached at. You'd be a little more believable if you were one of those ones who railed against ALL romance subplots getting in the way of your srs srs RPG.

[tmp7704]

Either bare chests is nudity for both, or it is nudity for neither. There is no middle ground that makes sense. The fact there is a middle ground is nothing but a double standard.

Are you just pretending, or have it never occurred to you two piece bikinis are made for women only for a reason?

There *is* double standard when it comes to chest coverage, and nudity in general.

[daveliam]

You are talking as if Gaider is straight and WANTS to include these things. Did you miss the article I linked that Gaider is gay and WANT to put gay issues into the games? As lead developer, if bioware said no, he'd call 1 800 LGBT ACTIVIST. But anyway, you spin it like a gay person would NOT want to put gay things into their game. In his interview he's admitted to being an activist, so he is putting some lgbt activist agenda into the game.

Exactly. He WANTS it in the game and Bioware supports him. Stop trying to pressure Bioware to cave to your agenda. Video game companies should be free to make the games they want.

[eyezonlyii]

Equal in what sense? How many naked women are there that run through the street? naughty pixels or suggestive scenes for that matter? There is no ****** house mind you. We have two options, two, and Josie we don't get to see any breast or ass where with Cass, its breast only. Tell me how this is equal to the situations above?
 
Mind you, Iron Bull, Dorian have full scenes, I haven't seen anything with them, but I heard this, Cullen I haven't heard either.
 
From the short amount I can gather, a lot more lewd, side quests and companion quests, main quests combined, or suggestive for that matter for lgbt.
 
True equality would have equality for all.

So you're commenting on something you haven't seen and have no intention one watching anyway...right. Now this goes to hinako up thread as well. Breasts and male chests are not sexualized the same way, and so the cannot be compared the same way until either one is moved to the level of the other. Whether that's fair or not, is a different discussion, so thems the vreaks. There is no total nudity in this games, so the Cullen running away scene is ostensibly the same as if you unequipped Alistair's armor in origins: you don't see anything. As Dave said, bull has no nudity either and Dorian gets a little cheeky. Meanwhile both Sera and Cassandra go topless. So again I'm not seeing how the portrayals of romances favors any one side over the other, especially if the argument is that straight men are left in the cold. If you want to complain that every love interest doesn't look like xxxLeliana, there are way too many threads that are still open for that. If you want to complain about the brothels, remember that even in origins, there were men there to service characters who wanted them. So I implore you, please tell me how straight men are slighted in this game as opposed to the others.

[TheOgre]

Jesus christ, I'm talking as if he's a sincere human being. You're insane.

Hey, no need for the insane part.

[Rawgrim]

You are talking as if Gaider is straight and WANTS to include these things.  Did you miss the article I linked that Gaider is gay and WANT to put gay issues into the games?  As lead developer, if bioware said no, he'd call 1 800 LGBT ACTIVIST. But anyway, you spin it like a gay person would NOT want to put gay things into their game.  In his interview he's admitted to being an activist, so he is putting some lgbt activist agenda into the game.  

 

So what if Gaider is gay or not? He has probably experienced plenty of gay issues, and is probably the best man to include such things into the fictional world of Thedas.

 

The game isn't overflowing with bits of gay agenda or anything like that. The game has a gay character or two, and that is pretty much it. The games even has two stereotypical gay fellows in DA:O.

 

The only agenda in play here is just to make gay and bisexual players feel welcome too. As a straight guy this does not harm me in every way. Krem might be a case of Bioware trying too hard though. Still. Cool character.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Are you just pretending, or have it never occurred to you two piece bikinis are made for women only for a reason?

There *is* double standard when it comes to chest coverage, and nudity in general.

I know, and I am saying it is a ridiculous concept. Either both genders showing off their chest is bad, or neither is.

[daveliam]

I know, and I am saying it is a ridiculous concept. Either both genders showing off their chest is bad, or neither is.

Well, there's the crux of the problem. Nobody said anything about 'bad'......

[fireproof_boots]

You are talking as if Gaider is straight and WANTS to include these things.  Did you miss the article I linked that Gaider is gay and WANT to put gay issues into the games?  As lead developer, if bioware said no, he'd call 1 800 LGBT ACTIVIST. But anyway, you spin it like a gay person would NOT want to put gay things into their game.  In his interview he's admitted to being an activist, so he is putting some lgbt activist agenda into the game.  

 

Right, its his damn story.  He is the lead author the story.  Author's put their personal experience in their work, it is what they have always done.  It reflects their beliefs, morals, and experiences.  You don't get to read (or play) a story and then ****** that the author doesn't share your views.

 

I will say again: it is like reading Chronicles of Narnia and being upset about the Christian themes.  Don't read C.S. Lewis if you don't want to read a story influenced by Christianity.  Don't play a game written by someone who cares deeply about LGBT struggles if you don't want to hear about them.  You don't get to tell an author not to include their personal experiences in their story and simultaneously ****** about censorship.  You literally want to censor an author.

[TheOgre]

So what if Gaider is gay or not? He has probably experienced plenty of gay issues, and is probably the best man to include such things into the fictional world of Thedas.

The game isn't overflowing with bits of gay agenda or anything like that. The game has a gay character or two, and that is pretty much it. The games even has two stereotypical gay fellows in DA:O.

The only agenda in play here is just to make gay and bisexual players feel welcome too. As a straight guy this does not harm me in every way. Krem might be a case of Bioware trying too hard though. Still. Cool character.

Well, I suppose I and quite a few others didn't see it from that angle. If it was Gaiders intent all along well, and to make it more friendly I'm on board.

Still leaves me disappointed but I suppose it's because it felt so foreign from dao and da2.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, there's the crux of the problem. Nobody said anything about 'bad'......

They don't have to say it. The fact is that people see topless women as not acceptable(aka bad) while they see topless men as perfectly acceptable. 

 

Personally, I think both should have to wear shirts. 

[SkyKing]

Jesus christ, I'm talking as if he's a sincere human being. You're insane.

 

So you don't mind gay characters, but as soon as you know they're gay, you're being preached at. You'd be a little more believable if you were one of those ones who railed against ALL romance subplots getting in the way of your srs srs RPG.

 

Trying to spin away from the weak argument.  What gay game developer would NOT want to put in gay stuff?  What straight game developer would NOT want to put in straight stuff.  You can't show something biased and apply it to everybody else.  If he was straight then your argument might have merit.  

 

As for the " you don't mind gay characters, but as soon as you know they're gay, you're being preached at" adding words I didn't say again.     How about  I explain it one last time, there is a difference between having a gay character and then having 'gay oppression/issues/preaching' in a game.    Do many games and tv shows you watch have black people in it?  Do you mind their are black people?  What if every show and game other than just having normal black people in it always had something about black oppression in it? Wouldn't it get old if you couldn't watch a show or game that had black people in it without something about black oppression always popping up in it?  

 

I'm fine having gay characters in a game, not with having gay oppression/issues/preaching in them.  

[tmp7704]

I know, and I am saying it is a ridiculous concept. Either both genders showing off their chest is bad, or neither is.

It's slightly less ridiculous when you realize where it stems from. Men get aroused by the sight of female breasts but don't give a damn about seeing one's like their own, so if they're in position to dictate women should cover up 'so they don't get tempted' that's exactly what happens. And here we are.

[berelinde]

Fun fact: In New York City, women are legally allowed to go topless under the same conditions that men are (i.e. if a restaurant says "No shirt, no shoes, no service," it applies equally to everyone). I have absolutely no idea how this works out in practice.

[Rawgrim]

Well, I suppose I and quite a few others didn't see it from that angle. If it was Gaiders intent all along well, and to make it more friendly I'm on board.

Still leaves me disappointed but I suppose it's because it felt so foreign from dao and da2.

 

Well I can only speak for myself on this, I guess. But I never felt there was any kind of gay agenda forced into this series at all. Gaider is a writer who happens to be gay. What he does in his spare time is up to him. The only issue I will have with him is I buy a game or book he has written, and the writing in it sucks.

[TheOgre]

Right, its his damn story. He is the lead author the story. Author's put their personal experience in their work, it is what they have always done. It reflects their beliefs, morals, and experiences. You don't get to read (or play) a story and then ****** that the author doesn't share your views.

I will say again: it is like reading Chronicles of Narnia and being upset about the Christian themes. Don't read C.S. Lewis if you don't want to read a story influenced by Christianity. Don't play a game written by someone who cares deeply about LGBT struggles if you don't want to hear about them. You don't get to tell an author not to include their personal experiences in their story and simultaneously ****** about censorship. You literally want to censor an author.

Judging from your post you seem really frustrated about people expressing their differences in this particular matter. From my own case, it's because it was a shift from predecessor games. I expected something different than what I experienced, so I am personally disappointed. While suspecting it had to do with lgbt groups, it's never nice to find your expectation spoiled by someone else's hand in the batter.

[eyezonlyii]

I know, and I am saying it is a ridiculous concept. Either both genders showing off their chest is bad, or neither is.

You may feel that way as do others, but this is not the case culturally, the reason being that breasts, abd women to be honest, as a whole are sexualized in a way that men aren't. With the inclusion of more women's and gay male voices in the media space, I'm sure this will change, or at least force straigh t men to confront the way that women have been presented throughout history.
As they say: the reason straight men are so afraid of gay men is they are afraid gay men will treat them the way straight men treat women.

#notallstraightmen

[SkyKing]

Right, its his damn story.  He is the lead author the story.  Author's put their personal experience in their work, it is what they have always done.  It reflects their beliefs, morals, and experiences.  You don't get to read (or play) a story and then ****** that the author doesn't share your views.

 

I will say again: it is like reading Chronicles of Narnia and being upset about the Christian themes.  Don't read C.S. Lewis if you don't want to read a story influenced by Christianity.  Don't play a game written by someone who cares deeply about LGBT struggles if you don't want to hear about them.  You don't get to tell an author not to include their personal experiences in their story and simultaneously ****** about censorship.  You literally want to censor an author.

 

But that is completely double sided.  First I don't know if he is the lead author for the whole game.  Atleast until DAI he only did parts of games.  Now who was writing to C.S. Lewis to include LGBT and Feminist issues in her story?  Are all of these shows and games having LGBT stuff because suddenly all the writers want it put in or because they have to be in 'compliance' and 'prove' they are not bigots, etc?