266 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

So just because someone doesn't yell in your face "I'm straight!" it means they are automatically bi? The fact that Cullen doesn't feel attracted to a male warden and rejects the male Inquisitor doesn't mean anything? And it has been confirmed several times that Cullen is straight and that's not going to change in the future, yet people are still in denial.

 

 

Not automatically. It just means that they can be potentially bisexual.

 

It's as if you've never met a bisexual person. You do realize some bisexual people are more attracted to one gender than another. Some have trouble communicating with one gender more than the other. There are so many potential loopholes in your statement.

 

At the release of DAI, one can assume with confidence that Cullen is straight given he does not reciprocate the feelings.

Still, he never explicitly rejects the player for any given reason other than "I don't think it will work out". 

That's not exactly a complete shutdown towards the potential for other types of attraction.

 

This isn't like Dorian where his entire arc revolves around him being gay and refusing 100% to be with a woman. This is clear-cut 100% gold-star homosexuality. 

 

It's fairly unlikely that they will release a romance-oriented DLC that opens up new PC/LI combos, but the wording was rendered vague enough so that the developers have the option to potentially do so if they wished.

 

I believe that Cullen is indeed straight, but is no reason to shut anyone down who thinks otherwise.

 

Gaider's response questioning the need to prove that Cullen is straight is more aimed at mocking the notion that one needs to prove a sexual orientation, which you are ironically doing right now.

[Solbranthius]

Even if David Gaider himself popped in and wrote in big bold red letters .Stating  .That Cullen was ,and always has been straight .(Worded differently of course )

We would still get threads like this with people like yourself holding on tight to false hope .

 

Which isn't particularly surprising when Bioware have engaged in borderline 'queer-baiting'. They design very conventionally attractive male characters in the Dragon Age games (Alistair, Sebastian and Cullen) only to make them straight.

 

In Alistair's case I could overlook it, but Sebastian was the only straight character despite the rest of the main cast being bisexual or rather playersexual. Then we get Cullen and it's later revealed that they went so far as to create a romance with him for male characters only to scrap it. So I think it's pretty obvious why a lot of people are ticked off.

 

So yeah, a lot of it may simply be venting and nothing will change but hopefully when the next Dragon Age game comes around the gay/bisexual community will finally get the conventionally attractive 'knightly' romance option many have been waiting for since Origins.

[daveliam]

It seems like there's a misunderstanding happening here. 

 

On one hand, people are upset that some people want Cullen to be bisexual, even though it's been made clear by Gaider that he's straight and it's not going to change.  I can understand that because those requests are to change the established sexuality of a character.  While I'm disappointed about Cullen, I'm not in favor of changing that aspect of a character.

 

On the other hand, the idea that Cullen couldn't have been bisexual in DA: I is incorrect.  Cullen's hetero status was definitely not set in stone prior to DA: I and, specifically, Gaider's comments on him.  As others have rightfully pointed out, a character expressing interest in the opposite gender in the past does not lock their sexuality in as hetero.  It means that they are not gay.  It doesn't mean that they aren't bisexual.  A bisexual person does not have to express interest in both genders at all opportunities.  I see no retcons in Kaidan's and Anders' characters.  And, had Cullen be bisexual in DA: I, I wouldn't have seen that as a retcon either. 

 

Now, changing Dorian, Sera, or Cullen (at this point) to straight (for the former), gay (for the latter), or bisexual (for any of them) would be a retcon because, at this point, their sexualities have been established. 

[TammieAZ]

Which isn't particularly surprising when Bioware have engaged in borderline 'queer-baiting'. They design very conventionally attractive male characters in the Dragon Age games (Alistair, Sebastian and Cullen) only to make them straight.

 

In Alistair's case I could overlook it, but Sebastian was the only straight character despite the rest of the main cast being bisexual or rather playersexual. Then we get Cullen and it's later revealed that they went so far as to create a romance with him for male characters only to scrap it. So I think it's pretty obvious why a lot of people are ticked off.

 

So yeah, a lot of it may simply be venting and nothing will change but hopefully when the next Dragon Age game comes around the gay/bisexual community will finally get the conventionally attractive 'knightly' romance option many have been waiting for since Origins.

 

Don't hold your breath...

[Lebanese Dude]

Now, changing Dorian, Sera, or Cullen (at this point) to straight (for the former), gay (for the latter), or bisexual (for any of them) would be a retcon because, at this point, their sexualities have been established.

I remember that Cullen's reply was that "Nothing can happen between us. I'd prefer if we remained friends", so his sexuality still hasn't been set in stone.

Still, I'm fairly confident he's straight.

[Lebanese Dude]

Don't hold your breath...

Don't say such things

[TammieAZ]

Don't say such things

I apologize. I'm having a bad morning.    

[Amirit]

Not automatically. It just means that they can be potentially bisexual.

 

It's as if you've never met a bisexual person. You do realize some bisexual people are more attracted to one gender than another. Some have trouble communicating with one gender more than the other. There are so many potential loopholes in your statement.

 

At the release of DAI, one can assume with confidence that Cullen is straight given he does not reciprocate the feelings.

Still, he never explicitly rejects the player for any given reason other than "I don't think it will work out". 

That's not exactly a complete shutdown towards the potential for other types of attraction.

 

This isn't like Dorian where his entire arc revolves around him being gay and refusing 100% to be with a woman. This is clear-cut 100% gold-star homosexuality. 

 

It's fairly unlikely that they will release a romance-oriented DLC that opens up new PC/LI combos, but the wording was rendered vague enough so that the developers have the option to potentially do so if they wished.

 

I believe that Cullen is indeed straight, but is no reason to shut anyone down who thinks otherwise.

 

Gaider's response questioning the need to prove that Cullen is straight is more aimed at mocking the notion that one needs to prove a sexual orientation, which you are ironically doing right now.

 

With all due respect, you and the person with the post next to you are both perfect example why DG's "mocking" contains too much truth to be funny. YOU are saying that because Cullen never said out loudly "I am a straight man" he is potentially "bi" no matter what. 10 years of dreaming about Surana Amel? Talking about her in DA2? Who cares! He did not say "I am not bi" hence, he can be one.

 

Btw, according to your logic Sera is not a lesbian. Her plot ark does not revolves around her sexuality either. So, what if she is taking about women and dating women? For sure she is a potential "bi", right? 

[pinkjellybeans]

Not automatically. It just means that they can be potentially bisexual.

 

It's as if you've never met a bisexual person. You do realize some bisexual people are more attracted to one gender than another. Some have trouble communicating with one gender more than the other. There are so many potential loopholes in your statement.

 

At the release of DAI, one can assume with confidence that Cullen is straight given he does not reciprocate the feelings.

Still, he never explicitly rejects the player for any given reason other than "I don't think it will work out". 

That's not exactly a complete shutdown towards the potential for other types of attraction.

 

This isn't like Dorian where his entire arc revolves around him being gay and refusing 100% to be with a woman. This is clear-cut 100% gold-star homosexuality. 

 

It's fairly unlikely that they will release a romance-oriented DLC that opens up new PC/LI combos, but the wording was rendered vague enough so that the developers have the option to potentially do so if they wished.

 

I believe that Cullen is indeed straight, but is no reason to shut anyone down who thinks otherwise.

 

Gaider's response questioning the need to prove that Cullen is straight is more aimed at mocking the notion that one needs to prove a sexual orientation, which you are ironically doing right now.

 

 

I'm not shutting down anyone, I'm just finding it hard to believe that some people still think he could be bi even after Inquisition. I can understand before DAI but not after, when it was confirmed he's straight and when he rejects male Inquisitors. It's like the only way people could be convinced is if Cullen would run around Skyhold's corridors screaming "I'm straight!".

 

I think people are just making this whole thing more complicated than it has to be. This is a video game, not real life. Cullen is a fictional character, not a real person. His sexuality was confirmed by the devs, the people who created him (not only by Gaider but they confirmed it when they announced the possible romances). I really doubt they will make Cullen bi in a patch or DLC since it was also already confirmed that is not going to happen. I think people are just in denial and are trying to come up with excuses for Cullen to be "potentially" bi. But that's just my opinion. *shrug*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then there's Kaidan. Ignoring the fact that the same-sex scenario was cut out due to anti-gay pressure at the time of release, Kaidan never explicitly reveals his sexual orientation to the player. The hidden sexual tension between them is pretty obvious, only to be escalated in DA2 when he tells you that losing you was like losing a limb. There was no "retcon".

They always intended Kaidan to be heterosexual in ME1. From the wiki: 

 

As part of a workaround for a programming issue, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale voiced all of the lines for both human romances in Mass Effect even though the romances were intended to be exclusively heterosexual.^[1] As these voiced lines remain in the game, Kaidan and Ashley can be romanced by same-sex Shepards through the use of save edits, although some of the dialogue options are missing and Shepard will be addressed as a member of the opposite sex.^[2][3]

 

So him being a bisexual in ME3 was a retcon. 

[Lebanese Dude]

With all due respect, you and the person with the post next to you are both perfect example why DG's "mocking" contains too much truth to be funny. YOU are saying that because Cullen never said out loudly "I am a straight man" he is potentially "bi" no matter what. 10 years of dreaming about Surana Amel? Talking about her in DA2? Who cares! He did not say "I am not bi" hence, he can be one.
 
Btw, according to your logic Sera is not a lesbian. Her plot ark does not revolves around her sexuality either. So, what if she is taking about women and dating women? For sure she is a potential "bi", right?

You do understand what potential means right?

Also Sera explicitly tells you she isn't into you cause she's into "wimmin", so check your facts before trying to make a point.

[Lebanese Dude]

They always intended Kaidan to be heterosexual in ME1. From the wiki:

As part of a workaround for a programming issue, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale voiced all of the lines for both human romances in Mass Effect even though the romances were intended to be exclusively heterosexual.^[1] As these voiced lines remain in the game, Kaidan and Ashley can be romanced by same-sex Shepards through the use of save edits, although some of the dialogue options are missing and Shepard will be addressed as a member of the opposite sex.^[2][3]

So him being a bisexual in ME3 was a retcon.

Check the wording. The romances are heterosexual and not the characters.

[Exalus]

I'm glad everyone in the game is not a pansexual loving machine. 

 

So yeah, a lot of it may simply be venting and nothing will change but hopefully when the next Dragon Age game comes around the gay/bisexual community will finally get the conventionally attractive 'knightly' romance option many have been waiting for since Origins.

 

I don't see why this desirable or necessary. Dorian is crying in a corner somewhere. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Check the wording. The romances are heterosexual and not the characters.

I did check the wording. You said they were going to be bi but anti-gay people put pressure to make them straight. That is not true and they were always planned to be straight. 

[Amirit]

You do understand what potential means right?

Also Sera explicitly tells you she isn't into you cause she's into "wimmin", so check your facts before trying to make a point.

 

Oh, I do, but do you? Because according to you a polite "no" ("I do not think it will work") is not a "no" but potential "yes". And anything else about Cullen's life for you is a question of believes, not facts. Just about anything has potential. Sera "potentially" can meet a man who will be attractive enough to switch her from her way, so can Dorian with some very special woman. Potentially they can be straight or at least bi. 

 

Games (movies - anything show related) have very limited time to introduce a character. Until recently it was enough to show in that limited time that if character is dating the opposite sex - he\she is straight if not directly said otherwise (Zevran, Leliana). Now days even straight character has to openly declare his\her sexuality or nobody will believe it. 

[Lebanese Dude]

Oh, I do, but do you? Because according to you a polite "no" ("I do not think it will work") is not a "no" but potential "yes". And anything else about Cullen's life for you is a question of believes, not facts. Just about anything has potential. Sera "potentially" can meet a man who will be attractive enough to switch her from her way, so can Dorian with some very special woman. Potentially they can be straight or at least bi. 
 
Games (movies - anything show related) have very limited time to introduce a character. Until recently it was enough to show in that limited time that if character is dating the opposite sex - he\she is straight if not directly said otherwise (Zevran, Leliana). Now days even straight character has to openly declare his\her sexuality or nobody will believe it.

That's exactly what potential means >.>.. One can interpret the polite "no" as a rejection towards the person in particular.
If you ask a girl out as a guy and she refuses, she's either not into men , is not into you specifically, or not interested in general.
See where I'm going?

Also your statement about Sera is inherently wrong since they explicitly state their sexual orientation.
Cullen never does.

*sigh*

[Melca36]

I said it once and I'll say it again.  

 

Its disgusting and vile when people want to change Dorian's sexuality. I played a male and romanced him...He's PERFECT as he is.

 

And I will CALL ANYBODY OUT who wants to change him.

 

That said...Its equally vile and disgusting for people who want to erase Cullen and Cassandra's sexuality.   

 

Also...if you think its wrong for people to erase Dorian's sexuality but perfectly alright to erase who Cassandra and Cullen are...then you are a hypocrite.

 

Its also selfish for anybody to demand the writers to change how they envision the characters just to pander and cater to a person's needs.

 

Whats done is done. People need to DEAL WITH IT.

 

A character’s sexuality is part of their identity, just as it is with any human. To insist on wanting to change that in the canon gives the implication that one sees them less as a character and more of a tool to entertain a certain fantasy. And the claim that such changes are for the sake of bi/pan representation holds little water in the Dragon Age universe, where there are multiple characters that are already bisexual, and at one that is pansexual (and he rocks). And mostly, the idea of such changes being for the purpose of representation only seems to arise when one is defending their desire to change a characters orientation

 

Headcanons are fine, fantasies are fine, no one should deny you these. But please ponder the reason why people want mods that would instate these changes. If it’s nothing more than “these two would look cute/hot together”, please reevaluate. And do not hide behind the claim that it is for representation. Unless you really mean it, you are merely perpetuating an incredibly disgusting facade.

[Panda]

 

 

So just because someone doesn't yell in your face "I'm straight!" it means they are automatically bi? The fact that Cullen doesn't feel attracted to a male warden and rejects the male Inquisitor doesn't mean anything? And it has been confirmed several times that Cullen is straight and that's not going to change in the future, yet people are still in denial.

 

 

No, that means they are potentially any sexuality, bisexual included. Heterosexuality isn't default that everyone who doesn't state otherwise is.

 

Yes Bioware changed him straight in the game which is sad.

[Lebanese Dude]

I did check the wording. You said they were going to be bi but anti-gay people put pressure to make them straight. That is not true and they were always planned to be straight.

Ultimately irrelevant. The point is that the romances were heterosexual and not the characters.

I mean, let's not debate this topic from a game that goes out if it's way to justify that romancing Liara as a woman us technically not lesbian.

[Melca36]

No, that means they are potentially any sexuality, bisexual included. Heterosexuality isn't default that everyone who doesn't state otherwise is.

 

Yes Bioware changed him straight in the game which is sad.

 

And people are going to have to learn to DEAL WITH IT.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ultimately irrelevant. The point is that the romances were heterosexual and not the characters.

I mean, let's not debate this topic from a game that goes out if it's way to justify that romancing Liara as a woman us technically not lesbian.

The point is relevant. You are using a fabricated story of there being people who made it so Kaidan wasn't always shown as bisexual when no such people existed to support your notion. There is nothing to suggest that until ME3 they planned on Kaidan being bisexual while there is evidence to the contrary that he was straight and they retconned him to bi. 

 

If you don't want to debate it, don't bring it up. 

[Lebanese Dude]

The point is relevant. You are using a fabricated story of there being people who made it so Kaidan wasn't always shown as bisexual when so such people existed to support your notion. There is nothing to suggest that until ME3 they planned on Kaidan being bisexual while there is evidence to the contrary that he was straight and they retconned him to bi. 

 

If you don't want to debate it, don't bring it up. 

I conceded the point by calling it irrelevant. I wouldn't even call it fabricated since the evidence is right there and the statement is an obvious PR stunt but I'd rather not debate assumptions.

 

The fact remains. The romance turned out to be heterosexual. The character was never confirmed to be straight via dialogue nor by the developers.

Therefore there was no retcon.

 

That's it. There's literally nothing to discuss. I'd also appreciate it if people quit throwing the word "retcon" around as if their assumptions or empirical evidence are fact.

[Melca36]

This is true. However, a lot of fans really disliked the sudden shift in Kaidan's and Ander's sexuality/personalities. It's retconning done to appease a group of fans that wanted more gay options. These are characters that were very obviously portrayed as straight in previous games, even if it was not explicitly stated, that were randomly changed without explanation in later titles. It makes no sense that Kaidan wouldn't be attracted to Shepard in ME1, but then suddenly become attracted to him in ME3.

 

It would be like if they decided to make Isabella only straight in DA2, despite her showing clear interest in both genders in DA:O. That would be pretty silly right?

 

 

My brother is gay and he HATED mshep/Kaidan.    He said if they wanted to do it right they should have not recycled most of the femSHEP scenes.   He prefers Cortez.

[Lebanese Dude]

My brother is gay and he HATED mshep/Kaidan.    He said if they wanted to do it right they should have not recycled most of the femSHEP scenes.   He prefers Cortez.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I found the mshep/Kaidan romance arc across the three games to be one of the most natural character developments in Mass Effect.

In retrospect I'm actually content they did not make him a romance option in ME1. It made the ME3 climax all the better.

[BartDude52]

@Lebanese Dude: Question: say if Cullen only ever expressed an interest in a male Warden in Origins and was only able to be romanced by a male Inquisitor in Inquisition, yet never explicitly stated that he was gay, would you still be insisting that he could be potentially be bisexual? I'm genuinely curious here, because I just can't understand the mentality of some people on this forum. I mean, come on, Bioware is a fairly progressive company - if they wanted Cullen to be bi they would have made him available to a male Inquisitor as well, but they didn't, so it's obvious that he's straight. You'd have to be fairly dense not to realise this. Does it really need to be spelt out for you? 

 

Take Juhani from KOTOR as another example of what I'm trying to say. She doesn't explicitly state that she's a lesbian, but it's fairly obvious that she is when you consider that: 1) She only ever expresses a romantic interest in you if your character is female, 2): it's implied that she was in a relationship with a female Jedi. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes in order to put the pieces together here. You just need to use your brain ever so slightly.

 

However, if we go by your logic, she could be bisexual as she never explicitly stated that she's a lesbian. Sure, there's a possibility, but it would be rather unlikely, don't you think? I do. She's a lesbian, I don't need her to come out (pun unintended) and tell me that she's a lesbian. I've already figured it out - I'm not that stupid.