266 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

The ones who are missing the point are the naive people insisting Cullen being bisexual makes any sense. It doesn't.

 

Ever since Origins, it's made clear Cullen was created targeting female audiences. He pretty much behaves like someone's first crush, the shy, adorable guy most women dream of. In plain words: he's the stereotypical girlish fantasy.

But when you play with a male mage, you cannot romance him. He talks to the male mage as he would talk to any dude. There are no hints he ever felt any interest toward a male char and Cullen himself is quite a masculine character, not showing any tendencies toward any sort of different sexual behaviour.

To ignore these facts is to ignore the obvious.

 

If there are people out there blinding themselves to something so basic and insisting Bioware shold subvert the character just to please a small portion of the fans, then they need to grow up. This was not a limitation placed in romance options. It was a sensible measure given the character's history and reason for being created in the first place. There are several characters you can romance in the fandom, targeted toward all sorts of sexual orientation. DA2 is pratically a sausage fest, as Angry Joe put it, and many fans just saw everyone's bisexuality in the game as UNREALISTIC.

 

One thing are the whims of a few young fans. Another is a company taking steps that might compromise the game's credibility. So kudos for Bioware having the sense to not repeat the mistake they made in DA2. In terms of romance, DA:I reflects how people do behave in real life, instead of being just fan service.

 

That's what most veteran players expect from a Bioware game and that's how it should be. Which is why the game is targeted to 18+ audiences. People expect a certain degree of realism. Thank God they left Cullen as a hetero romance option. It's the least they could do after the fiasco of DA2 more than obvious attempt to try and please everybody.

 

Yeah, the fact that you think that a good argument is that Cullen is "quite masculine", so therefore it doesn't make sense that he would be interested in "different sexual behavior" tells me all I need to know about your mindset.  You should visit the 90 page thread in the feedback section about how there are a ton of gay fans who also want this type of character.  It's not just 'female audiences'. 

 

Also, if you think I'm a "young fan" or not "veteran", think again.  I've been playing Bioware games since 1999.

[Monica21]

The ones who are missing the point are the naive people insisting Cullen being bisexual makes any sense. It doesn't.

 

Ever since Origins, it's made clear Cullen was created targeting female audiences. He pretty much behaves like someone's first crush, the shy, adorable guy most women dream of. In plain words: he's the stereotypical girlish fantasy.

But when you play with a male mage, you cannot romance him. He talks to the male mage as he would talk to any dude. There are no hints he ever felt any interest toward a male char and Cullen himself is quite a masculine character, not showing any tendencies toward any sort of different sexual behaviour.

To ignore these facts is to ignore the obvious.

 

Why wouldn't a gay man have the same ideal first crush as a straight woman? Why wouldn't a gay man be interested in a shy, adorable, yet masculine man? Why wouldn't a shy, adorable, yet masculine man also be gay? Just because a man expresses interest in woman doesn't mean he defaults to straight.

 

For the sake of canon, yes, Cullen is straight because the writers have said so. Gaider most explicitly in his, "Straight guys have to justify being straight?" tweet. That doesn't mean however, that gay men somehow have a different kind of "stereotype" than straight women.

[TheLastArchivist]

Why wouldn't a gay man have the same ideal first crush as a straight woman? Why wouldn't a gay man be interested in a shy, adorable, yet masculine man? Why wouldn't a shy, adorable, yet masculine man also be gay? Just because a man expresses interest in woman doesn't mean he defaults to straight.

 

For the sake of canon, yes, Cullen is straight because the writers have said so. Gaider most explicitly in his, "Straight guys have to justify being straight?" tweet. That doesn't mean however, that gay men somehow have a different kind of "stereotype" than straight women.

That's another issue you're bringing up, concerning gay romance in general.

It has nothing to do with Cullen being conceived as a straight male targeted toward female audiences.

[Monica21]

That's another issue you're bringing up, concerning gay romance in general.

It has nothing to do with Cullen being conceived as a straight male targeted toward female audiences.

 

Well, I'd say that the points you made didn't have anything to do with Cullen. They were generalizations about female romances and stereotypes. You said that he was shy, adorable, and masculine, all traits which can be ascribed to what some gay men would want. And, as is shown in this and many threads like it, gay men are very interested in a Cullen-type character. In Origins he was presented as being attracted to the female mage. That should not presume that he's straight, only that he wasn't attracted to a male Amell.

[daveliam]

That's another issue you're bringing up, concerning gay romance in general.

It has nothing to do with Cullen being conceived as a straight male targeted toward female audiences.

 

No, you're the one that brought it up as evidence for why he has to be straight and how it 'doesn't make sense' and is unrealistic for him to be bisexual. 

 

I agree that Cullen is straight.  But he doesn't have to be straight.  He is because that's how he was written.  If he were exactly the same and bisexual, it would make just as much sense.  To say otherwise shows some really unfortunate biases on your part.

[FaWa]

and Cullen himself is quite a masculine character, not showing any tendencies toward any sort of different sexual behaviour.

 

I personally agree that Cullen should've been straight in this game, but ffs this is a really dumb and ignorant thing to say lol. We clearly don't hang around similar gay dudes. 

[Nykara]

I love the fact that not every companion in this game seems to want in to my characters pants! So much more realistic this way.

[One4sakenAngel]

 I am honestly hesitant to post in this thread (please don't tear me apart!!), but I want to give my two cents.

 

 Cullen is a wonderful character, obviously a lot of people can agree on that because everyone is clamoring to romance him.

 

 I'm not going to pretend that I knew anything about this whole "Cullen originally slated to be bi" thing because I didn't know until I saw it posted in here. When I came across Cullen in Origins and again in DA2, he came off as entirely straight to me. No second-guessing it, that's just how he is. I know that some people are upset because they feel that everyone should be able to romance everyone in the game, but I think that would take something away from the game and away from the characters. Causing a straight character to be bisexual, or a gay/lesbian character to be straight, or someone to be pansexual or what-have-you is understandable (everyone wants to love who they want to love), but everyone has their sexual preferences and to take that away or change it because it's something you want... I don't know, it just doesn't sit right.

 

  I think Dorian is incredible and once I've finished my current run, I'll probably make a funny/caring/sassy and wonderful male mage (or rogue) Inquisitor to romance him. But right now I am having too much fun with my mischievous female IQ finding love in the amazing Commander.

[In Exile]

Yeah, the fact that you think that a good argument is that Cullen is "quite masculine", so therefore it doesn't make sense that he would be interested in "different sexual behavior" tells me all I need to know about your mindset. You should visit the 90 page thread in the feedback section about how there are a ton of gay fans who also want this type of character. It's not just 'female audiences'.

Also, if you think I'm a "young fan" or not "veteran", think again. I've been playing Bioware games since 1999.

The quite masculine thing is such a sadly common reaction. I very recently got a "how are you not straight, you're such an assertive guy!" reaction from someone. It's just confusing. The follow-up to my slack-jawed stare was even weirder.

In any event it really bothers me that people infer "not being into THIS man" translates into "not being into MEN". There are lots of guys who aren't my type. I wouldn't hit on them. Or act differently. I'd never be into a Qunari built like the Inquisitor or the IB. Inferring a sexuality from that is just wonky.

Morrigan doesn't trip over herself to bone the Inquisitor but that doesn't make her something other than straight.

[TammieAZ]

 I am honestly hesitant to post in this thread (please don't tear me apart!!), but I want to give my two cents.

 

 Cullen is a wonderful character, obviously a lot of people can agree on that because everyone is clamoring to romance him.

 

 I'm not going to pretend that I knew anything about this whole "Cullen originally slated to be bi" thing because I didn't know until I saw it posted in here. When I came across Cullen in Origins and again in DA2, he came off as entirely straight to me. No second-guessing it, that's just how he is. I know that some people are upset because they feel that everyone should be able to romance everyone in the game, but I think that would take something away from the game and away from the characters. Causing a straight character to be bisexual, or a gay/lesbian character to be straight, or someone to be pansexual or what-have-you is understandable (everyone wants to love who they want to love), but everyone has their sexual preferences and to take that away or change it because it's something you want... I don't know, it just doesn't sit right.

 

  I think Dorian is incredible and once I've finished my current run, I'll probably make a funny/caring/sassy and wonderful male mage (or rogue) Inquisitor to romance him. But right now I am having too much fun with my mischievous female IQ finding love in the amazing Commander.

 

I agree. And the whole Cullen originally slated to be bi thing . It is total B.S and nothing more. 

[Monica21]

I agree. And the whole Cullen originally slated to be bi thing . It is total B.S and nothing more. 

 

Well, you know, except for the recorded dialogue that didn't make it in-game. Sure. Yeah. Total BS.

[daveliam]

The quite masculine thing is such a sadly common reaction. I very recently got a "how are you not straight, you're such an assertive guy!" reaction from someone. It's just confusing. The follow-up to my slack-jawed stare was even weirder.

In any event it really bothers me that people infer "not being into THIS man" translates into "not being into MEN". There are lots of guys who aren't my type. I wouldn't hit on them. Or act differently. I'd never be into a Qunari built like the Inquisitor or the IB. Inferring a sexuality from that is just wonky.

Morrigan doesn't trip over herself to bone the Inquisitor but that doesn't make her something other than straight.

 

It's my biggest pet peeve in life:  the idea that masculinity = straight.  And it's done a real doozy on my own image of self-worth over the years.  I hate seeing it pop up here, but unfortunately, it's still a common thought.

 

I recently got, "I mean not you because you're not, like, a real gay guy........"

[TheLastArchivist]

Yeah, the fact that you think that a good argument is that Cullen is "quite masculine", so therefore it doesn't make sense that he would be interested in "different sexual behavior" tells me all I need to know about your mindset.  You should visit the 90 page thread in the feedback section about how there are a ton of gay fans who also want this type of character.  It's not just 'female audiences'. 

 

Also, if you think I'm a "young fan" or not "veteran", think again.  I've been playing Bioware games since 1999.

 

No, that's you selecting particular bits of another person's argument and purposefully distorting them to try to invalidate them in any way. In academic circles, picking up one line or expression out of context and forcing a wrong conclusion about the interlocutor is called intellectual dishonesty. You either analyze the argument as a whole and answer it properly or you don't answer at all. 

 

This is why nobody takes some people in the forum seriously. You're not ready to have a normal debate. The argument presented in my post was crystal clear, having stated an obvious fact in the game, also made painstakingly clear by people involved in its production.

 

And since they already said everything there was to say (which I just repeated), I'll let others continue the debate. 

[TammieAZ]

Well, you know, except for the recorded dialogue that didn't make it in-game. Sure. Yeah. Total BS.

Well I guess they made the wise decision not to make it so...

There was enough of that in DA2 and hopefully the last.   

[daveliam]

No, that's you selecting particular bits of another person's argument and purposefully distorting them to try to invalidate them in any way. In academic circles, picking up one line or expression out of context and forcing a wrong conclusion about the interlocutor is called intellectual dishonesty. You either analyze the argument as a whole and answer it properly or you don't answer at all. 

 

This is why nobody takes some people in the forum seriously. You're not ready to have a normal debate. The argument presented in my post was crystal clear, having stated an obvious fact in the game, also made painstakingly clear by people involved in its production.

 

And since they already said everything there was to say (which I just repeated), I'll let others continue the debate. 

 

Right......except for the fact that there were three or four other people who also found your statements to hold the same meaning that I did and no one responded in agreement to your comment that Cullen's too masculine to be bisexual.  Nice try though.  It's your words, not mine.  You're right about one thing, though.  You certainly were crystal clear about how you think that Cullen is too masculine to be bisexual.

[Hellion Rex]

The quite masculine thing is such a sadly common reaction. I very recently got a "how are you not straight, you're such an assertive guy!" reaction from someone. It's just confusing. The follow-up to my slack-jawed stare was even weirder.

In any event it really bothers me that people infer "not being into THIS man" translates into "not being into MEN". There are lots of guys who aren't my type. I wouldn't hit on them. Or act differently. I'd never be into a Qunari built like the Inquisitor or the IB. Inferring a sexuality from that is just wonky.

Morrigan doesn't trip over herself to bone the Inquisitor but that doesn't make her something other than straight.

 

 

It's my biggest pet peeve in life:  the idea that masculinity = straight.  And it's done a real doozy on my own image of self-worth over the years.  I hate seeing it pop up here, but unfortunately, it's still a common thought.

 

I recently got, "I mean not you because you're not, like, a real gay guy........"

 

 

Preach, y'all.

[Monica21]

No, that's you selecting particular bits of another person's argument and purposefully distorting them to try to invalidate them in any way. In academic circles, picking up one line or expression out of context and forcing a wrong conclusion about the interlocutor is called intellectual dishonesty. You either analyze the argument as a whole and answer it properly or you don't answer at all. 

 

This is why nobody takes some people in the forum seriously. You're not ready to have a normal debate. The argument presented in my post was crystal clear, having stated an obvious fact in the game, also made painstakingly clear by people involved in its production.

 

And since they already said everything there was to say (which I just repeated), I'll let others continue the debate. 

 

I think what you were trying to say is that Cullen was initially presented as kind of a fun, flirty option for a female mage origin story. But the problem you ran into is when you tried to extrapolate that to mean "Cullen is straight." I understand where you're coming from but I have to disagree.

 

The fact is that Cullen is only present because of continued fan interest. Without that, he wouldn't have been in Kirkwall and certainly never as an LI in Inquisition. If the developers had known that this one-off character was going to be as remarkably popular as he is and continues to be, they may very well have shown him flirting awkwardly with a male mage.

 

I don't know why him being bi didn't make it in-game and we can only make guesses. But I think that your argument was framed around him being a stereotypical female crush and that's where it fell apart.

[line_genrou]

I bet most people here whining about Cullen not being bi romanced Anders in DA2 and thought it was the best thing ever

We could argue that Anders in Awakening seemed very straight but Bioware changed that to appeal to you whiners and to fit in the DA2 sausage fest

 

Listen, this is stupid. I'm a female and I don't like Alistair as a romance option. I find him too silly/innocent and the one time I romanced him I felt like I was his older sister. I wished DA:O had a character like Cullen as a LI. He's the type of character that appeals to me in the romantic sense if I play as a female char. Let's not even get into DA2, where we have whiny Anders and emo elf. Yet I'm was not whining in this forum about this before DA:I was released and we got Cullen.

The entitlement here is too much.

[Hellion Rex]

I bet most people here whining about Cullen not being bi romanced Anders in DA2 and thought it was the best thing ever

We could argue that Anders in Awakening seemed very straight but Bioware changed that to appeal to you whiners and to fit in the DA2 sausage fest

 

Nice generalizations there.

[AresKeith]

*sigh*

[bunniebean]

Just popped in to join the convo but quickly realizing this is a mistake.

[AresKeith]

I agree. And the whole Cullen originally slated to be bi thing . It is total B.S and nothing more. 

Well, you know, except for the recorded dialogue that didn't make it in-game. Sure. Yeah. Total BS.

 

I wouldn't call it BS, and Cullen was considered to be bi during development due to the recorded dialogue

 

But this isn't all that rare in game development 

[fizzypop]

There is no such mod. Why are yall trying to force your sexual preferences on people, yeesh.

 

You could just make a female character and make her look as manly as possible if you really want him that badly

Chill man it isn't a real person.

[bunniebean]

 

Just gunna leave this here....man the tension, you guys need to laugh!