240 réponses à ce sujet

[Phoe77]

Why are we still discussing what that person says in this topic?  There are plenty of other places where the same arguments about UI and gameplay and everything else under the sun have been repeated ad nauseam.  

 

On topic, congratulations are in order.  I occasionally see people dismissing the inclusion of gay, bisexual, and transgender characters in video games as irrelevant because they don't think that said inclusion will amount to anything in the real world.  I'm glad that Bioware doesn't share that sentiment.  Media informs our opinions on social issues, and video games are a widespread and popular form of media, especially among younger demographics.  

 

Even beyond any sort of social motivation, it's great to see the inclusion of such characters in a game.  Even for someone like me who's never had their orientation be made into an issue, it's refreshing to see a wide range of characters not only being present as meaningful figures, but also having them be treated respectfully instead of just being there to fill a checklist.  

[Il Divo]

 

First off: Congrats to BioWare for a well deserved award.

 

Second: The same here.

Most games that I play and the ones that I enjoy the most are story-driven RPGS and sand box games and most video games since the 8 bit days have had story it was just simple stories, gamers grew up and the games have followed suit.

 

I literally burned out my first copy of KOTOR from playing it so much. It wasn't the graphics, music, sound, voice acting, gameplay, UI, controls, or even the Star Wars brand that kept me coming back it was it was a well written story and great characters. Everything else was icing on the cake. The same with Jade Empire, Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age, and games like Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fable. Fable 2, Fable 3, Saints Row 3, and Saints Row 4.

 

Bringing back some crazy memories for me! KotOR was my first ever interactive RPG. I didn't even know that games like that were even possible at the time. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I loved all that other stuff too, but that story? Those characters? At the time, and still now, it felt like the coolest thing in the world. 

[Il Divo]

It's not what I'd classify as gameplay, personally.

 

And, honestly? Even Skyrim serves as a somewhat adequate example, depending on how you play the game. The amount of time I've spent reading book after book in that game is scary!

 

Yup! I forget if Skyrim also had separate book stores in its cities, but I remember whittling away quite a bit of time in Morrowind/Oblivion in their book stores alone. It's not something that every game lets you do, sadly.

[Freedheart]

Congratulations, BioWare...you deserve this award.  As a straight woman who is rather new to gaming, I have enjoyed the fact that not only can I have female protagonists, but that I have found such immersive gameplay in BioWare games - especially the Dragon Age series - some of my most profound relationships are of the same sex variety.  I don't think it is pandering to make as many people as possible feel represented in your games, rather it is a reflection of our society, and intelligent marketing to recognize that.  I suppose these same arguments may have come up when female protagonists were introduced to games, though that definitely predates my limited experience.

[katokires]

RPGs and cRPGs most definitely rely on story, characters, romance and dialogue. Tell me one cRPG that does not have any of those?  It can have the best UI and gameplay but what is the reason for playing the cRPG without the story?

Reasons:

Character Building: Stats Building, Skill building, Feats/Talents Building

 

Like any other good RPG, unlike Inquisition

 

Story well, any trashy Final Fantasy have, in fact the very first Final Fantasy had a better time travelling story than Inquisition, so sad, and I thought it was the mot stupid simplistic story I had ever seen in a game... Bioware proved me wrong.

 

Also yeah, yeah, great LGBT thingy, I'd rather be forced hetero and play a good game (in fact I am forced etero with some character so whatever). I'm with Sera on this one, people, people, not people LGBT. I just wanted a good game, not great, good as in DA2 would be enugh. What use is it with a LGBT game worse than being spanked in the streets for being homossexual? I'd rather they threw me stones.

[sim-ran]

You had an opportunity to post again to mitigate and repair your first cynical post but sadly you are making it worse.
I'm not going to disturb this pleasant thread further by arguing with your threadbare entitled logic.
That's what the forum's 'ignore' feature is for which I'm pleased to be able to use.

There's an ignore feature?!

I'm going to go explore the features of this forum...

Edit : Okay I've looked for a way to ignore that atlantico person, as they're kinda annoying. I can't find anything. It's it only on full site (I'm on a mobile... )

[SofaJockey]

There's an ignore feature?!

I'm going to go explore the features of this forum...

 

There is, it's great.

 

Click on your username where you get to your profile.

Choose 'Manage ignore prefs'

and slap in the name of the individual that you never want to hear from again (though you can change your mind).

You can select their posts, their signatures or PMs from them.

[atlantico]

Well, that's pretty stupid on your part since the entire point of subjectivity means that what they think is true doesn't have to agree with what you think is true.

 

Want to try again?

 

You're telling me what you subjectively think subjectivity means and what the point of it is.. very good. You're thinking of opinions, which are subjective yes. I'm sorry, I'm speaking way above your paygrade.

 

 

Tell that to all the players, myself included, who play Bioware games for pretty much everything but the gameplay. Apparently we're doing it wrong! 

 

 

No you're hardly doing it wrong, you're just underlining that the gameplay isn't very good in Bioware games these days, perhaps unwittingly. But your statement is wonderfully amusing. I'm not sure if you even realize it.

 

Gameplay is what makes a game... well, a game. 

 

Also, comparing chess, Pac-Man and SMB to RPGs is a complete and utter joke.

 

Yes, gameplay is what makes a game... a game. Bad gameplay, makes a bad game - seems kinda tautological, but there you go. No matter how good a story is or well defined characters are in a game, if the gameplay is bad, well that's that. The game is bad. Characters are still good. Story is still good. Game is still bad. 

 

Comparing games to games is hardly a joke to rational people, and certainly not when it comes to RPGs. Gameplay is a core feature of RPGs and the plot, well not so much. Kill bad guy is enough of a plot, really. RPGs use gameplay to allow maximal player agency in the game, so while on your journey to kill bad guy, you can do things, things allowed by gameplay. 

 

RPGs and cRPGs most definitely rely on story, characters, romance and dialogue. Tell me one cRPG that does not have any of those?  It can have the best UI and gameplay but what is the reason for playing the cRPG without the story?

 

CRPGs is what I'm referring to, pen and paper RPGs are another thing entirely, but you ask and off the top of my head Adom is a famous cRPG which has no story, but great gameplay, Ultima V has paper thin story, good gameplay - neither have dialogue. They are proof of concept, but add a good story and make a great cRPG. 

 

When the story and characters take over gameplay, well that makes for a worse game - also if you want to categorize things, it moves the entire thing closer to an adventure game (such as Quest for Glory) and farther from RPG. The fundamental part of an RPG is player agency, which in cRPG is granted by means of gameplay. Story, characters, romances and such are secondary, not unimportant and certainly separate a good RPG from a great RPG, but secondary non-the-less.

[Il Divo]

No you're hardly doing it wrong, you're just underlining that the gameplay isn't very good in Bioware games these days, perhaps unwittingly. But your statement is wonderfully amusing. I'm not sure if you even realize it.

 

 

Or rather drawing attention to the fact that some people really don't care how good (or bad) the combat system is, compared to other aspects of the experience. Ex: Going through Planescape almost entirely via dialogue. 

 

Point being, that if Bioware is actually interested in maintaining their fan base, it might be more productive to satisfy what (they believe) people want from the experience, rather than satisfying Atlantico's fantasies. If gameplay is the single most important factor, where is the "Retake Dragon Age gameplay" movement? 

 

You're telling me what you subjectively think subjectivity means and what the point of it is.. very good. You're thinking of opinions, which are subjective yes. I'm sorry, I'm speaking way above your paygrade.

 

 

Now you're simply being pedantic. If you have some super secret special definition of subjectivity, then lay it on the table. But then you're arguing semantics and nothing more. 

[sim-ran]

There is, it's great.

Click on your username where you get to your profile.
Choose 'Manage ignore prefs'
and slap in the name of the individual that you never want to hear from again (though you can change your mind).
You can select their posts, their signatures or PMs from them.

That's a great feature! I had to switch to full desktop mode to get at it but it's worth it. Thanks for the heads up sofajockey.

Trolls prepare to be obliterated!

Oh and congrats to Bioware for the award, this one is certainly well deserved.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

Congrats Bioware! It's most definitely well-deserved.

[sim-ran]

You know all this good will and congratulating is nice but makes for a pretty boring read. I feel some controversy and pointless bickering its needed.

So to that end - dogs and pants and cats are awesome.

Discuss...

[k1rage]

There is, it's great.

 

Click on your username where you get to your profile.

Choose 'Manage ignore prefs'

and slap in the name of the individual that you never want to hear from again (though you can change your mind).

You can select their posts, their signatures or PMs from them.

 

wow thanks for that I imagine atlantico will be on a lot of peoples Ignore list now lol

 

also pants suck, cats are evil, and if you dont love dogs you scare me a little lol

 

[In Exile]

That's funny, because I find people who talk about subjectivity are never interested in discussion, all they want is to ram their fingers in their ears and pretend that their opinion is fact.

Funny old world.

You definetly don't understand how objectivity works. Something can't be objectively "bad" because the very concept of "bad" imports subjective assessment. It can be lots of things - unresponsive, etc. But it can't be bad by definition.

Also I think it's pretty loathesome you derailed a threat with an important message to complain about a tangentially related point.

[rapscallioness]

Good on ya, BW!

[Qoojo]

Who cares as long as it's optional? Then you can include it in the story or not as you see fit. I don't see how it detracts from gameplay or ui because those are separate groups. The time spent on it comes from the story and supporting cutscenes groups or people. The only end difference is that some story lines have gay themes. While that might be objectional to some, and they can avoid it, it's time to share the pie. Most gamers don't experience all of a game, so to say it is subtracting from the game is not correct for majority of gamers.

 

As far as awards go, I don't put much wieght into any of them.

[bondari reloads.]

Also I think it's pretty loathesome you derailed a threat with an important message to complain about a tangentially related point.

 

Which may be discussed in the respective thread. There are thousands of them. There are, however, not many Dorians, which is why this award is well-deserved. If not for the accomplishment for including LGBT characters (which it isn't), then for the way in which they don't treat it as an accomplishment but as a part of a person which can't be denied but isn't hyped for hype's sake, either.

Yeah they really did that well.

[Lebanese Dude]

I would have been irritated by the tangential discussion here, if it weren't for the flawless clocking by some posters that just made my day.

[Rasande]

Yeah, I'm that person who points out that this is after all a game. So controversial. 

 

UI, gameplay and performance/stability come before literally anything in a game. The UI bad, gameplay is questionable and performance/stability is all over the place.

 

And I mean "literally" in the literal sense. These things take precedence over graphics, even story and certainly romance and sexuality. They take precedence over characters, over dialogue. Everything.

 

If Bioware spent so much effort on SJW messaging and pandering in this game that they receive an award for it, then too much effort was spent on that and not the game itsel

 

You are an idiot and a bigot. Including LGBT characters has absolutely no impact on how developed the gampelay or how pollished the game is. It is two completely diffirent departments. The same person that writes for a character is not responsible for checking bugs or designing UI's. Besides that, a focus on story and characters has always been Biowares things, always,

 

But no, the gameplay isn't up to snuff and it's buggy so it must be beacuse of the gays!

[DrBlingzle]

 

Congratulations Bioware

 

Keep on fighting the good fight.

[Elsariel]

There will always be people that just love to ****** in your cheerios.

Congrats Bioware! Award is well deserved.

[Nimlowyn]

Congratulations Bioware! 

 

I like seeing this acknowledgement from outside the gaming industry and community. It demonstrates video games' increased cultural relevance and further solidifies Bioware's role as a leader on our journey to the right side of history. Woohoo!

[Andreas Amell]

http://www.ign.com/a...ward-from-glaad

 

Good for you DA:I and Bioware

Congratulations. This has also been my first game to have so much ethnic diversity and women characters in speaking parts. I was very surprised and pleased with my experience.