240 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick_One]

(sigh)

 

Yet again someone insists on bringing their 'hurt' to a simple 'well done' thread.

 

The statistics argument is simply nonsense, that's like saying left handed golfers are only allowed 3 clubs in their bag because there are percentage-wise less of them. If the choice is made to offer the option to role play different orientations as well as races and genders (great) then the play value should be equivalent, particularly as it harms no-one else's play.

 

Off-topic:

 

You try to have a pleasant conversation about a pleasing award and some posters insist on bringing their unpleasant agendas.

This thread does have some benefits however, as it seems to attracting the bigots and the entitled, like flies on crap.

I can finish filling out my 'ignore' list in one sitting  .

That cracked me up. The off-topic remark I mean.

[SofaJockey]

The unintentional implication that this thread is shitty

 

I love that line from Master Dennet 

 

You are correct than nothing is implied about the content of this thread 

(ok, maybe just certain bits of it...)

[Maverick_One]

 
Maybe because the percentages don't match up to the population and they did a horrible job on most of those characters. A lot the time their sexual preferences get forced into conversations too, which makes it obvious Bioware/EA pushing to get more sales....cause look, it's gay...now gays will buy this even though it's swill writing.

I am White, Black, and Native American. I doubt my percentage numbers  match up to the rest of population. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Anyway I do have a valid point. I disagree with you even being in this thread. For once let people have well done thread without bringing your toxicity into it. I am certain you and anyone else won't get killed doing so. Also I am sure Feedback and Suggestions could use another I am butt hurt thread.You turned into what started out into as decent thread into a **** one. Also this is the Real World. "You can't always get what you want".  Good on you Bioware.  Congrats.  

 

Edit: I decided it offends me to be forced to be subjected to toxicity in Well Done threads. I now want people to pander to me and not ruin well done threads with toxicity. I will now whine, rage, complain, and crash threads I have no real business and spread my optimism amongst your toxic threads.

 

Note: Yes I was being sarcastic with the edit. Though hopefully you can see my point.

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

Note: Yes I was being sarcastic with the edit. Though hopefully you can see my point.

 

I think that poster is bald now from all the scalping in this thread

[Unknown_Warrior]

Seems like a very token reward to win, and it seems they won because they're so aggressively in-your-face about it since a ton of other devs have portrayed gays/lesbians sympathetically without getting any "prize" for it.

[Dio Demon]

Seems like a very token reward to win, and it seems they won because they're so aggressively in-your-face about it since a ton of other devs have portrayed gays/lesbians sympathetically without getting any "prize" for it.

Which games? Could you name them?

[SofaJockey]

Seems like a very token reward to win, and it seems they won because they're so aggressively in-your-face about it since a ton of other devs have portrayed gays/lesbians sympathetically without getting any "prize" for it.

 

It's possible smaller studios have, I don't know,

but for a AAA studio, BioWare have shown strong backbone and equity in a gaming market that largely doesn't.

[SofaJockey]

I think that poster is bald now from all the scalping in this thread

 

Has to be said, my disappointment was with what was in their head, not with what was on top of it 

[Unknown_Warrior]

Which games? Could you name them?

 

Naughty Dog's: The Last of Us

Obsidian's: Fallout New Vegas

Rockstar North's: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony, Bully

Volition's: Saint's Row IV (though none of the characters preference are actually stated, you can "romance" them all the same)

Capcom's: Dragon's Dogma (same as above)

Bethesda's: TES: Skyrim (same as above)

 

From what I've played.

[Dio Demon]

Naughty Dog's: The Last of Us

Obsidian's: Fallout New Vegas

Rockstar North's: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony, Bully

Volition's: Saint's Row IV (though none of the characters preference are actually stated, you can "romance" them all the same)

Capcom's: Dragon's Dogma (same as above)

Bethesda's: TES: Skyrim (same as above)

 

From what I've played.

Dragon's Dogma... is iffy so is Skyrim. Dragon's Dogma because sexuality is really iffy... every one wants the Arisen's D or V including a prepubescent teen.

 

Skyrim's characters are just... boring.

 

And The Last of Us has homosexual/bisexual characters?

[SofaJockey]

Naughty Dog's: The Last of Us

Obsidian's: Fallout New Vegas

Rockstar North's: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony, Bully

Volition's: Saint's Row IV (though none of the characters preference are actually stated, you can "romance" them all the same)

Capcom's: Dragon's Dogma (same as above)

Bethesda's: TES: Skyrim (same as above)

 

I only know some of those from Xbox.
I don't recall any significant LGBT characters in: Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim & Saints Row IV.

 

I'm not sure I'd call a 'sensitive portrayal', the simple ability to romance (or bang) other characters as either gender.

Sure, it's a good thing for player choice, but I'd say BioWare story based romance plots are at another level.

 

Skyrim's romance plots and dialogue were hardly complex,

let alone any companion dialogue, 'I'm sworn to carry your burdens'.

[Xiomara]

Naughty Dog's: The Last of Us
Obsidian's: Fallout New Vegas
Rockstar North's: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony, Bully
Volition's: Saint's Row IV (though none of the characters preference are actually stated, you can "romance" them all the same)
Capcom's: Dragon's Dogma (same as above)
Bethesda's: TES: Skyrim (same as above)
 
From what I've played.

Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma have a bunch of playersexual nonentities. I don't remember any gay characters in Bully. Saints Row IV's characters will sleep with anyone and it's obviously a parody. It's reaching a bit to put them on the same level as Bioware.

Gay Tony was an over the top, stereotypical caricature. The opposite of doing it right. If Bioware put a character like him in one of their games the shitstorm would be visible from space.

Naughty Dog and Obsidian are good examples but even Naughty Dog got accused of pandering to SJW with Ellie.

[caradoc2000]

I don't remember any gay characters in Bully.

The protagonist can smooch guys in Bully - hardly prize-worthy portrayal, though.

[daveliam]

First of all, congats to Bioware for this award.  They deserve it and I'm thrilled that GLAAD is starting to recognize video game companies in addition to other popular entertainment media.  Bioware totally earned this award and I couldn't be happier.

 

 
Maybe because the percentages don't match up to the population and they did a horrible job on most of those characters. A lot the time their sexual preferences get forced into conversations too, which makes it obvious Bioware/EA pushing to get more sales....cause look, it's gay...now gays will buy this even though it's swill writing.

 

Two main issues here:

 

1.)  A small random sample is never representational of the larger population.  Basic statistics. 

 

2.)  If you count all of the Bioware romances, then there have been 28 males available for romance and 8 of them were LGBT.  That's 28%.  If we are just looking at gay males, it's 2 out of 28 or 7%.  There have been 35 females available for romance and 11 have been LGBT.  That's 31%.  If we are just looking at lesbians, it's 3 out of 35 or 8.5%.  Even if we ignore the concept in #1, then I'm still not seeing a problem with these numbers.

 

So not only are you clearly a homophobe, you're also bad at statistics.

 

I shouldn't like this because it's mean, but it's funny and I'm out of likes, so "like".

 

Naughty Dog's: The Last of Us

Obsidian's: Fallout New Vegas

Rockstar North's: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony, Bully

Volition's: Saint's Row IV (though none of the characters preference are actually stated, you can "romance" them all the same)

Capcom's: Dragon's Dogma (same as above)

Bethesda's: TES: Skyrim (same as above)

 

From what I've played.

 

So, given that you admit that Saints Row IV, Dragon's Dogma, and Skyrim don't actually have gay characters (they have actual playersexual characters, unlike Bioware games), you have successfully listed 3 other games that have gay characters.  Actual gay/lesbian characters that are written as such.  Let's add in Bully, since a few of the random guys are bisexual and comment on it.  So that's FOUR.  And you call that "a ton"?  Seriously?

[Unknown_Warrior]

So, given that you admit that Saints Row IV, Dragon's Dogma, and Skyrim don't actually have gay characters (they have actual playersexual characters, unlike Bioware games), you have successfully listed 3 other games that have gay characters.  Actual gay/lesbian characters that are written as such.  Let's add in Bully, since a few of the random guys are bisexual and comment on it.  So that's FOUR.  And you call that "a ton"?  Seriously?

 

First of all, both DAO and DA2 were in the same boat. As a matter of fact, all of Bioware's games up to Mass Effect 3 were in the same boat. There were no gays or lesbians in DAO/DA2 unless you made one. With the exception of a very brief Karl x Anders interaction in DA2 that implied a relationship, or the implication that Danarius was having his way with Fenris.

Furthermore, those only list games I've played.

[SofaJockey]

First of all, both DAO and DA2 were in the same boat. As a matter of fact, all of Bioware's games up to Mass Effect 3 were in the same boat. There were no gays or lesbians in DAO/DA2 unless you made one. With the exception of a very brief Karl x Anders interaction in DA2 that implied a relationship, or the implication that Danarius was having his way with Fenris.

Furthermore, those only list games I've played.

 

I think you're fairly accurate with that assessment.

 

BioWare did not get to where we are overnight.

Though Jade Empire had also made steps in earlier years.

 

BioWare was early to allow player-sexual romances at all.

 

I recall the press got pretty excited about FemShep being able to have sexy time with Liara.

Any consideration that Liara is from a single sex species was obstructed by side-boob.

 

Now with Dorian and Sera they go further with characters 

who to the traditional gaming population may now just 'not be into you'.

But done in an integrated way.

 

These are huge steps forward in gaming and that's why GLAAD have offered this award, and rightly so.

[atlantico]

 

 

1.)  A small random sample is never representational of the larger population.  Basic statistics. 

 

 

Actually, that's exactly what it is. That's how all population statistics work. The trick it is to get the sample random, but if it is, then it is very much representational of the larger population. Basic statistics, indeed. 

[PearsAndCherries]

Good job Bioware. I created a male caracter and am now on my quest to romance Dorian. No other series has evoked such strong emotions as dragon age. Well done!

[Lebanese Dude]

First of all, both DAO and DA2 were in the same boat. As a matter of fact, all of Bioware's games up to Mass Effect 3 were in the same boat. There were no gays or lesbians in DAO/DA2 unless you made one. With the exception of a very brief Karl x Anders interaction in DA2 that implied a relationship, or the implication that Danarius was having his way with Fenris.

Furthermore, those only list games I've played.

Great. So this is why DAI was awarded special recognition by GLAAD for its portrayal of LGBT characters. 

BioWare has been actively increasing LGBT representation. This is nothing new.

 

Like it's predecessors, DAI allows the character to play an LGB (and possibly T if you are vigilant enough) character unlike most games out there. 

 

The inquisitor can flirt with most of the team as any gender. 

Four of those characters potentially reciprocate homosexual advances. Those characters are three-dimensional have unique stories and personalities. 

You have the witty and charming Dorian who has proven to be a player favorite, with a side quest that resonates with many LGBT people, including me.

You have the brazen and immature Sera who quickly dismisses most lesbian stereotypes etc..

Then there are the (optional) sex scenes that unabashedly portray sexuality in a mature way.

 

Also, BioWare games approach those relationships differently in that they are actively recognized. 

In most other games, relationships are either completely tangential (as in Skyrim) or completely player-created (as in Sims). 

 

Not only that, but Dragon Age Inquisition is one of the few games out there that portrays a transgender character in a non-stereotypical and inoffensive way. 

Does it seem a little overt? I fail to see how "in-your-face" the whole Krem situation is when it is only mentioned once in a very tongue-in-cheek manner while meeting the Chargers. The player has to steer the conversation towards the transgender topic so it basically allows the player to react to the transgender character with acceptance, nonchalance, or confusion (after which IB and Krem explain it to you).

 

Furthermore, DAI shows LGBT main plot characters in power in the form of the lesbian empress Celene and her spymistress and jilted lover Briala.

It allows the player to actively reunite them. 

 

In addition to that, there are several instances of LGBT content that are both explicit and implicit.

An example would be a random dialogue in the Winter Palace between two men presumably in a relationship, with one of them jealous of the other for talking to the Grand Duke Cyril de Montfort whom you would know from DA2.

 

 

So all in all, I fail to see how other games compete when it comes to LGBT representation in a AAA game.

Mass Effect 3 is pretty close, but the mono-gendered Asari spacebabes aren't exactly the best analogue to human society.

[daveliam]

Actually, that's exactly what it is. That's how all population statistics work. The trick it is to get the sample random, but if it is, then it is very much representational of the larger population. Basic statistics, indeed.

A small, randomly drawn sample could be representational but there is no guarantee that a single randomly drawn sample will be representational of a larger population. Any assertions that findings from a single small random sample are applicable to the larger population are flawed.

That being said, the LI pool is NOT random. It's a collection of unique, extraordinary people who, by their inclusion, are already special. So the statistical representation argument is further irrelevant.

[LinksOcarina]

Which games? Could you name them?

 

Off the top of my head....Persona 4, Indigo Prophecy, The Last of Us (which won this award by the way), The Sims (technically), Mass Effect 3 of course, Fallout: New Vegas,  Walking Dead, and State of Decay.

[Lebanese Dude]

A small, randomly drawn sample could be representational but there is no guarantee that a single randomly drawn sample will be representational of a larger population. Any assertions that findings from a single small random sample are applicable to the larger population are flawed.

That being said, the LI pool is NOT random. It's a collection of unique, extraordinary people who, by their inclusion, are already special. So the statistical representation argument is further irrelevant.

 

The funniest part about the whole thing is that statistics don't even make sense to exploit in a roleplaying game.

 

Non-LGBT characters can play LGBT characters too and vice-versa. One has to accommodate all sexual orientations to maximize roleplaying capability.

[Il Divo]

A small, randomly drawn sample could be representational but there is no guarantee that a single randomly drawn sample will be representational of a larger population. Any assertions that findings from a single small random sample are applicable to the larger population are flawed.

That being said, the LI pool is NOT random. It's a collection of unique, extraordinary people who, by their inclusion, are already special. So the statistical representation argument is further irrelevant.

 

Pretty much. Our sample size is drawn from what, 12 companion characters, including those not involved in combat? Is that really enough to extrapolate to the entire population of Thedas? I guess we could do the numbers out for fun.

 

But even more importantly, a fantasy universe is not required to reflect our own world's representation. Replicating our own world was never the Dragon Age series' highlight, at any point.  

[atlantico]

A small, randomly drawn sample could be representational but there is no guarantee that a single randomly drawn sample will be representational of a larger population. 

 

A random sample of 1000 people in a population of 300 000 000 is small, but enough to get a +/-5% accuracy of the entire population. Basic statistics.

[LinksOcarina]

A random sample of 1000 people in a population of 300 000 000 is small enough to get a +/-5% accuracy of the entire population. Basic statistics.

 

My only question is who gives a ****?  I didn't realize a gay guy would make most of you blush so much.