40 réponses à ce sujet

[Exalus]

Patch 3 has fixed detonators which should be a great boon for 2handed but I am still finding it vastly inferior to dual dagger rogues.

The biggest issue is that mighty blow is vastly inferior than twin fangs: has a hard conditional in order to do competitive damage as well as twice the cooldown:

[             ] - Mighty blow - Twin fangs

[damage]   200(500)      400(600)

[cooldown] 15                 8

[cost]          50(35)          50

[detonate]   yes              yes

[AoE]          Yes              No

 

Rogues also have:

• stealth
• double crit chance while flanking
• easy sundering
• stamina on crit 

Where as warriors

• have cooldown on crit
• 30% damage on knocked down
• weaken on crit

 

Am I missing something here? My level 8 warrior even with 65 STR and 44% attack and a 195 dps greatsword is doing far worse than my rogue at the same level with far less attack%. Rogues can dish out steady damage with twinfangs/death blow where as warriors have to wait for mighty blow's ridiculous cooldown and still need to chain it after a knockdown from blockslash or grappling chain+. 

 

Build:
warcry

grappling chain+
mighty blow+
black and slash 

flow of battle 

pommel strike
Going for whirlwind next I guess?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bigdawg13]

I must have missed it in the patch notes (not that it matters because I'm on console), but I was unaware of patch 3 fixing detonators.

 

http://blog.bioware....-patch-3-notes/

 

And yes, I agree 2H really do pale in comparison to rogues.  I was excited to play the first 10 levels as each class the disparity was too much.  I keep staring at the warrior wondering if I can make it work.  I have rarely felt heroic running around swinging a staff or carrying large kitchen knifes.  And archer has the song "Everything I do, I do it for you" by Bryan Adams on repeat in my head.  After about 20 minutes I can't stand that anymore. 

 

Please bioware fix warrior detonators!!!!

[JumboWheat01]

Two-Handed seems to be more about physical crowd control (shoving things around and knocking them down,) in an area, while Dual Weapons seem to be more exclusively focused on killing things.

 

Also Two-Handers have better DPH with their regular attacks than a Dual Weapon rogue, this lets them deal more damage to higher-armor foes, and they seem to have an easier time eating through Guard than a Dual Weapon rogue does, who seems to shred Barriers instead.

[sinosleep]

Wrath of heaven

Spell Purge

Profit. 

 

You will practically one shot whole groups of enemies instead of one at a time. Yes. Rogues can kill Dragons in like 3 seconds but how practical is that for the other 99% of enemies in the game? 

[teks]

Twohand has guard, taunts, better armor, and more health.

Your pointing out DPS which is a meaningless number.

What your build is really really missing is bull rush. I would ditch grapple in a heartbeat for bullrush.

[actionhero112]

Mighty blow is much larger AoE knockdown, and warriors have access to massive cooldown reduction

 

You're just not going to beat a DW rogue in DPS as a warrior. They are more risky, thus enjoy higher damage as the tradeoff. That's fair because warriors have the ability to wear heavier armor, generate guard and have many aoe abilities that knock units down.

 

Once you get specializations things get a little more complicated, but the principle tends to remain true. 

[WillieStyle]

A few things:

1)2Handers have a lot more weapon damage than daggers.
2)Warriors get cool down reduction on crit which imo is more powerful than the stamina on crit rogues get.
3) two handed abilities have a much larger area of effect and are less effected by armor because of their high damage per hit.
4) Dragon Rage.

[Exalus]

Im more concerned about pre skyhold play because afterwards, everything becomes far too easy.
 

Its not really the issue of sustained dps but also the lack of burst damage every 8 seconds. A rogue with half the gear I have is going to do be doing as much if not more damage on a flanking twin fangs. Being able to instantly kill an archer or mage in NM is huge where as im standing around waiting for mighty blow to come off its ridiculous cooldown. I will try incorporating rushing bull.

 

Playing 2h isnt nearly as tactical, powerful or fun as rogue and thats a real shame. 

[GungaDin]

Drop pommel strike. Upgraded whirlwind and the passive that comes after allows for a LOT of aoe damage, unless someone interrupts you, making it a better choice imo. You are also missing charging bull, which is totally awesome for any warrior. 

As stated before, warriors are not about plain dps. The 2h can also tank quite decently with enough armor. My 1st inquisitor was a 2h warrior and, altough I got reaver for specialization because it made more sense lorewise, I decided to not put a single point in it and he could drop dragons dead by himself

[actionhero112]

Im more concerned about pre skyhold play because afterwards, everything becomes far too easy.
 

Its not really the issue of sustained dps but also the lack of burst damage every 8 seconds. A rogue with half the gear I have is going to do be doing as much if not more damage on a flanking twin fangs. Being able to instantly kill an archer or mage in NM is huge where as im standing around waiting for mighty blow to come off its ridiculous cooldown. I will try incorporating rushing bull.

 

Playing 2h isnt nearly as tactical, powerful or fun as rogue and thats a real shame. 

I mean you're right. I don't think anything you've said is wrong. 

 

You should try sword and board early. That's what I do. Better damage steroids, lower cooldowns, more survivalbility. Pretty much everything is on an 8 second cooldown and you can play like a gladiator. It's fun. Between Lunge and Slash, Payback Strike, Charging Bull and Shield Bash, I'm constantly activating low cost cooldowns and knocking things down while doing decent damage. 

 

I know it's not exactly the answer you're looking for, but if you're not enjoying the 2 handed warrior right now, why continue to play it? 

[Exalus]

Solely because I have not played it before on any playthrough(not even as a companion) and I'm at a point where I want a new challenge even if it means intentionally using an inferior archetype. After having playing mage, archer rogue and archer rogue and thoroughly enjoying all 3 I thought 2h warrior would be comparable, so far this is not the case but I want to continue on regardless.

 

Really, I feel like the ideal play would be to choose a dwarven warrior and make him into a magic defense tank and shuffle the rest of my party based on mood and taste because the one thing any party in nm will need is a tank. 

[JumboWheat01]

Dwarven tanks are awesome.  I feel like the elven and qunari bonuses are better suited towards other classes, but that magic defense is SO handy to have as a tank.  And let's not forget the extra awesome and exclusive Legion of the Dead armor that only dwarves can wear.  Is a thing of beauty.

[Lady Luminous]

2handers can be amazing if you lower your stamina reserve and have whirlwind. 

 

As long as you're holding down your whirlwind button and have stamina you can move around twirling your weapon. I can get through a whole battle sometimes without running down and having to stop!

[VahnXIII]

*peaks head in

 

Go Rogues!

 

*swiftly leaves thread

[JumboWheat01]

*peaks head in

 

Go Rogues!

 

*swiftly leaves thread

 

I thought the term was "Treasure Hunter."  >

[VahnXIII]

I thought the term was "Treasure Hunter."  >

Well played!

[Merlik]

After playing sword and shield in my first 2 playthorughs, I did 2H next, and was surprised at how much easier the fights went as long as I had enough defense in the build. It was all about using Bull Rush to the fullest and Mighty blow to keep the enemy knocked down or stunned. 

 

One of the hardest battles in the game, the haven battle, went far easier with 2H.

[Jestina]

My problem is constant spam that knocks you down and there doesn't seem to be anything like indomitable from DA:O that kept the 2H on his/her feet. Probably one of my bigger gripes about the combat system...no sustained abilities, now it's just a button mashing mess.

But regardless, people will always whine about rogue damage. What they don't factor in is that rogues are squishier with less armor...and most of their damage dealing can only happen if they flank a target.

[mesmerizedish]

My problem is constant spam that knocks you down and there doesn't seem to be anything like indomitable from DA:O that kept the 2H on his/her feet. Probably one of my bigger gripes about the combat system...no sustained abilities, now it's just a button mashing mess.

 

Guard makes you resistant to knockback.

[actionhero112]

Guard makes you resistant to knockback.

 

Where are you getting this from? 

[Reman]

LoL, dual wield rogues and 2H warriors both have pros and cons. Reavers can dish out some serious sustained damage and have much more survivability than a DW assassin. With the right build of course.

[mesmerizedish]

Where are you getting this from? 

 

Loading screen tip.

[zeypher]

Problem is most of 2 handed damage is tied to conditionals. Mighty blow i only 200% damage on a non knockdowned target and so on. They not bad but could be better as 2 handed tree is by far the worst 2 handed tree ever. Lets not speak about how bat earth shatter strike is and it does not even fit a warrior. 

 

Hopefully all we can hope is we get berserker as a specialization that is decent cause blood magic reaver hands are not my idea of a warrior specialization. 

[Alren]

I've played through as 2h Reaver, 2H Templar, and 2H Champion. The 2H champion was by far the most fun. Walking fortress synergy with flow of battle works really well. To the death is just awesome on boss/dragon fights. I liked it so much I wrote a somewhat comprehensive build guide. 

 

http://forum.bioware...pion-dps-build/

 

Played on nightmare both in a group and solo with that build. 

 

I enjoyed the 2H Champion play through more than my DW assassin. It really depends on the person though, if they like tactical strikes versus brutal relentless onslaught. Everyone likes different things. 

[papercut_ninja]

2h warrior that generates guard are more multi-purpose than rogues, with the right combinations you get in the zone where your warrior can taunt-generate guard-deal damage-reduce cooldown, and just rinse and repeat indefinitely. Throw in a few archers that are spread out and they can cut down a rogue very quickly, a warrior just shrugs them off.