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[Xariann]

So I was talking to a friend of mine about this http://www.gamespot....r/1100-6424838/

 

I was happy that DA:I was nominated.

 

Then my friend said, "Ah that explains the whole drama about people being upset at GLAAD as said people think DA:I didn't do enough." (On that note my friend doesn't agree with said people.)

 

I was gobsmacked. BioWare "didn't do enough?"

 

He went on to describe what he read on Tumblr and several social networks and I couldn't believe it. 

 

Okay, I understand not everyone has to like a game, but I am not talking about game reviews, I think that people saying that BioWare didn't do enough in terms of representing the LGBT community are a bit unrealistic. I think BioWare did a GREAT job at that. To this day I don't yet know of a "perfect game." But BioWare is right at the top for me.

 

Yes, there are things I don't like. Just why do I still get the same problems connecting to friends in the multiplayer that I had with ME 3? Was nothing learned from that experience? Why the bugs, why the this, why the that. As I said I know not the perfect game. But I love the BioWare games. 'tis what it is.

 

So thank you BioWare.

 

Thank you for making me flirt with Dorian, thinking my Inquisitor will live happily thereafter with him, to then discover he is gay. I was sad, but I understood. He was magnificently written, and very much not "cliche gay" and I'd not picked it up. That's respectful, you know, gay men aren't all effeminate. And to those who want him to be bi, does his story mean anything to you? HAVE you been in the situation when someone you love in your family basically excommunicated you from their life because of who you love? Well, let me tell you that is utterly heart wrenching. You try to be strong and not let it affect you, and think, "Well you can't choose your family but you can choose your friends." Or "Well they are not really worthy of my patience." Just like Dorian. On top of that, if someone tried to change that nature of who we love and who we are, we'd feel at the very least offended, if not affronted. So, no thanks, as much as I like Dorian, if someone ever made a mod so that he would romance a woman, I'll never install it.

 

And Cassandra. I love Cassandra. But hey, she's straight. That's a real shame. It really is. But that's life. I actually don't know that many people who are bi/gay in real life. That is without counting online friends/acquaintances. I'd go to work parties where you could bring your other half, and the only one who didn't have a straight partner was me. Heh. That's life. I still think that the highest point for my Inquisitor's relationship with Cassandra was when she got Varric to write the next chapter of Sword and Shields (and surely that's Aveline in the cover.) That was absolutely tops. Oh and the girl power talk, how it was amazing that the Inquisitor was a woman. There was a bond forming there. It wasn't romantic, alas, but it was a very strong bond nevertheless. It's like Leliana and the Divine. Love isn't just about romance. Again, thanks BioWare for writing such an amazing character.

 

Krem. I guess it's just me being a Jennifer Hale fangirl, but doesn't anybody else think that the fact that they gave this role to Jennifer Hale is a big form of respect? It's Jennifer Hale. It's the voice that has accompanied my hundreds of hours of gameplay through the lead role of Mass Effect, through tears and laughs, drinks and dances. I thought that her doing such a role was amazing. Hey, BioWare thought to put a ftm in a game. I haven't seen this anywhere else. Someone will probably come up with some other game where this is the case, but I personally have only seen it here. And I guess some people will manage to grumble and say "Where is the mtf? Where is the equality!?!!one!1eleventy!??" If there is something BioWare didn't do enough here was to allow me to interact more with him. I kind of wish he could be a companion. But, oh well, I'll just be happy to have a few drinks with him at the tavern.

 

Josephine, you are adorable, I did think about you a few times. I know you are bi... But something just doesn't click. I am not going to romance you just because I WANT A ROMANCE.

 

And that last part is what I think all of this boils down to. Some people really want a romance. They get very invested in this game and really want a romance. And to be fair, no other games got me so invested emotionally like the ones BioWare made. This is another proof that BioWare writes good games. But if there is something I learned from real life is that I rather be on my own than being with someone for the sake of being with someone. This game is no different. While I do like to hear that the next BioWare game has same sex romances, it really isn't why I play their games.

 

I would love to have the perfect romance for the character of the gender I picked. I really would. But this is a game. I'll sigh, maybe raise my shoulders for a moment. Cry a "Why, BioWare, why did you do this to me? Why did you make a character I like that I cannot romance?!" And then it will end there. And appreciate just the fact that this is also a good way to write characters, because, like in real life, not everyone belongs to the LGBT group.

 

And again it's a game. So well... I went with the Iron Bull in one run and Cullen in another. I tested the waters, unlike ME 3 where I romanced Liara in all the playthroughs. But it's a game. You can do it here. You are not breaking anyone's heart. Just step back and realise this. It's a game.

 

So thanks for these great games BioWare. Please get a grip on some bugs that really shouldn't be here. Fix a few things. But you are still my Gaming Love Interest.

[Wevryn1]

How did you not know Dorian was gay the first time you met his character?

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

@OP please don't draw a target on LBGT-community. Fair depiction of gays and transgenders is the freaking only part of the game that actually works as intended.

 

Your own remarks 'I understand not everyone has to like the game' just make me go raging psychopath, because, you know, people usually don't play videogames to honor LBGT community. Most of the people playing videogames want a decent story, smooth and enjoyable gameplay and attractive characters that don't mass-produce hate.

 

So, please... Don't.
Not the day I've spent four hours to get bloody 25 chests in MP.

[Abyss108]

@OP please don't draw a target on LBGT-community. Fair depiction of gays and transgenders is the freaking only part of the game that actually works as intended.

 

Your own remarks 'I understand not everyone has to like the game' just make me go raging psychopath, because, you know, people usually don't play videogames to honor LBGT community. Most of the people playing videogames want a decent story, smooth and enjoyable gameplay and attractice characters that don't mass-produce hate.

 

So, please... Don't.
Not the day I've spent four hours to get bloody 25 chests in MP.

 

If you don't want to read topics on the things Bioware got right, no one is forcing you to read them. Also, the lgbt characters in this game are a part of the story and characterization that you just said were important.

 

If you are upset about multiplayer chests, or gameplay, or bugs, or whatever it is you have a problem with, go post in those threads, don't post in a completely unrelated topic about them complaining that people like other things in the game.

 

 

 

I would also like to say thanks to Bioware for the lgbt content! I thought it was great!

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

If you don't want to read topics on the things Bioware got right, no one is forcing you to read them. Also, the lgbt characters in this game are a part of the story and characterization that you just said were important.

 

If you are upset about multiplayer chests, or gameplay, or bugs, or whatever it is you have a problem with, go post in those threads, don't post in a completely unrelated topic about them complaining that people like other things in the game.

 

 

 

I would also like to say thanks to Bioware for the lgbt content! I thought it was great!

 

Please learn to read. I have nothing bad, neither actions nor intentions towards LBGT community. I admit that this part of character depiction is right.

However I'm raging over OP lines that are not directly related to the topic name, thank you.

[daveliam]

It's not been my experience that LGBT people have been complaining about a lack of representation, in DA: I.  I've seen a few people who don't like some aspects of the LGBT characters (Sera and Josephine barely acknowledge being interested in women; Iron Bull and Dorian's relationship being 'unhealthy'), but I've not seen many (if any, to be honest) people complaining that Bioware hasn't been doing enough for the LGBT community.  If anything, I've seen way more complaints that there is too much LGBT content (from non-LGBT players, obviously), despite there only being about 6-7 minutes of LGBT content if you don't choose to do a gay romance (in a 6000+ minute game). 

 

To be honest, it would be helpful if you actually provided links to the comments that you are talking about.  As of now, you just say that you heard from someone who read something somewhere.  It's not exactly compelling. 

 

My own thoughts?  Bioware is the best video game company for LGBT representation.  Period.  It's been a bumpy road along the way, but they are the only AAA company that I can confidently say listens to their LGBT fans and goes out of the their way to respond directly to their concerns.  I thank Bioware for their efforts.  I'm a fan for life.  And I'm thrilled that GLAAD has recognized them!

[atlantico]

@OP please don't draw a target on LBGT-community. Fair depiction of gays and transgenders is the freaking only part of the game that actually works as intended.

 

Your own remarks 'I understand not everyone has to like the game' just make me go raging psychopath, because, you know, people usually don't play videogames to honor LBGT community. Most of the people playing videogames want a decent story, smooth and enjoyable gameplay and attractice characters that don't mass-produce hate.

 

So, please... Don't.
Not the day I've spent four hours to get bloody 25 chests in MP.

 

Agreed, I think fair depiction of gays and transgenders are the only goddam part that was made with care and consideration in this game.

 

And I'd even question the value of that, for the gay community to have a bug-ridden, overhyped, poorly designed and shallow game to be a vanguard for them. Is that a good thing in the end? 

[Abyss108]

Please learn to read. I have nothing bad, neither actions nor intentions towards LBGT community. I admit that this part of character depiction is right.

However I'm raging over OP lines that are not directly related to the topic name, thank you.

 

You're raging because she admitted not everyone has to like the game (even though you apparently agree with this), and then started talking about issues completely unrelated to the thread. Because apparently people aren't allowed to post topics praising unrelated factors of the game on a day you chose to loot some multiplayer chests. 

 

If you read my post, you would know I never said you had anything bad against the LGBT community.

 

I'm sick of seeing topics created to discuss the good things in the game, just to have people come into them and bring up completely unrelated bad things. There are plenty of places to discuss those things. Why hijack the unrelated places too?

[atlantico]

 

I'm sick of seeing topics created to discuss the good things in the game, just to have people come into them and bring up completely unrelated bad things. There are plenty of places to discuss those things. Why hijack the unrelated places too?

 

A bad game is a bad game, even for gays. It just makes it a "gay-friendly" bad game. I'm talking objectively bad, not just "my opinion". The game is full of bugs, it is very badly implemented on PC, it crashes regularly for anyone using DX11, it has a UI and interface which is so ill-conceived that disabled people have a big issue with it as well as people using keyboard and mouse in general, it has buggy quests, buggy dialogue, crafted items have no defense value and the list goes on.

 

A civil rights organization pushing this game is just so irrelevant to anyone except EA and their marketing department, which should be the only sickening part.

 

Because anyone, gay, straight, bi, trans, - whatever you are - whoever plays this game or wants to play this game can't escape the fact that it is a mess of a game. No matter what your sexuality or sexual preference is, the game is the same. A gay player is just as dismissed by EA as a *player* as anyone else is. 

 

The only real non-discriminatory factor of the game is that it is an equal opportunity offender against anyone who bought the game in the first place.

[Abyss108]

A bad game is a bad game, even for gays. It just makes it a "gay-friendly" bad game. I'm talking objectively bad, not just "my opinion". The game is full of bugs, it is very badly implemented on PC, it crashes regularly for anyone using DX11, it has a UI and interface which is so ill-conceived that disabled people have a big issue with it as well as people using keyboard and mouse in general, it has buggy quests, buggy dialogue, crafted items have no defense value and the list goes on.

 

A civil rights organization pushing this game is just so irrelevant to anyone except EA and their marketing department, which should be the only sickening part.

 

Because anyone, gay, straight, bi, trans, - whatever you are - whoever plays this game or wants to play this game can't escape the fact that it is a mess of a game. No matter what your sexuality or sexual preference is, the game is the same. A gay player is just as dismissed by EA as a *player* as anyone else is. 

 

The only real non-discriminatory factor of the game is that it is an equal opportunity offender against anyone who bought the game in the first place.

 

Very strange that I've had more fun with this game, then any other game in 22 years of playing then.

 

Also, completely irrelevant to whether the game handled lgbt characters OK. Topic isn't about bugs/UI issues/etc. You don't post in a thread about the music about the UI. You don't post in a thread about bugs, about the writing. 

 

Dropping out of this conversation now. 

[Ending]

Dumb question but what is LGBT and GLAAD?

[daveliam]

A bad game is a bad game, even for gays. It just makes it a "gay-friendly" bad game. I'm talking objectively bad, not just "my opinion". The game is full of bugs, it is very badly implemented on PC, it crashes regularly for anyone using DX11, it has a UI and interface which is so ill-conceived that disabled people have a big issue with it as well as people using keyboard and mouse in general, it has buggy quests, buggy dialogue, crafted items have no defense value and the list goes on.

 

A civil rights organization pushing this game is just so irrelevant to anyone except EA and their marketing department, which should be the only sickening part.

 

Because anyone, gay, straight, bi, trans, - whatever you are - whoever plays this game or wants to play this game can't escape the fact that it is a mess of a game. No matter what your sexuality or sexual preference is, the game is the same. A gay player is just as dismissed by EA as a *player* as anyone else is. 

 

The only real non-discriminatory factor of the game is that it is an equal opportunity offender against anyone who bought the game in the first place.

 

And that should highlight the concern, no?  If this game, which you claim is a buggy mess (but I disagree; it's buggy, but I've seen worse), is the best in terms of LGBT representation, how sad is that?  That this game, which you think is subpar, is the best that we have, shouldn't that highlight the issue?  We have so few games that represent us that a game that you claim is "objectively bad" is our best game.  That should really be telling, no?

[daveliam]

Dumb question but what is LGBT and GLAAD?

 

LGBT - lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender

 

GLAAD - Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (a non-profit that lobbies for better/more representation of LGBT people in media)

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I don't think something that happened on tumblr is necessarily worth being concerned about, or is representative of an entire community of people's opinions.

[atlantico]

And that should highlight the concern, no?  If this game, which you claim is a buggy mess (but I disagree; it's buggy, but I've seen worse), is the best in terms of LGBT representation, how sad is that?  That this game, which you think is subpar, is the best that we have, shouldn't that highlight the issue?  We have so few games that represent us that a game that you claim is "objectively bad" is our best game.  That should really be telling, no?

 

Sure if this is the best in terms of LGBT representation, then yeah, that's pretty damn sad. But honestly does DA:I do a better job of that than e.g. the Sims 4, also released in 2014? I think there are stronger candidates than DA:I, which has a pretty ham-fisted approach to sexuality and identities. 

[Abyss108]

I don't think something that happened on tumblr is necessarily worth being concerned about, or is representative of an entire community of people's opinions.

 

... but this didn't happen on tumblr? 

 

http://www.glaad.org/

[Kantr]

... but this didn't happen on tumblr? 

 

http://www.glaad.org/

I think they were talking about how tumblr was saying bioware didnt do enough.

[DaemionMoadrin]

*snip*

 

Very well written post.

 

I agree with you.

 

Romances are nice to have when there's time for them. It works out or it doesn't. I don't need to have a romance in every game or in every playthrough. My favourite ME trilogy playthrough saw my fem!Shep as single because she was too busy saving the galaxy to care much about her personal life. She did have lots of very close friends though.

[daveliam]

Sure if this is the best in terms of LGBT representation, then yeah, that's pretty damn sad. But honestly does DA:I do a better job of that than e.g. the Sims 4, also released in 2014? I think there are stronger candidates than DA:I, which has a pretty ham-fisted approach to sexuality and identities. 

 

I haven't played Sims 4.  Is it different than other Sims games?  The other ones that I played didn't have any actual plots or anything.  It was huge when Sims first came out because it was one of the first ones that allowed you to be gay.  But it's a poor substitute for an actual written gay character.  I think Arcade was a fantastic gay character.  Possibly my favorite gay video game character ever.  But Bioware is the really the only company that is consistently writing gay characters, with thoughts and feelings, and they are doing it regularly and better than any other company.  And DA: I, bugs and all, has the best representation of their games. 

[Abyss108]

I think they were talking about how tumblr was saying bioware didnt do enough.

 

Ah, that makes more sense.

 

I haven't played Sims 4.  Is it different than other Sims games?  The other ones that I played didn't have any actual plots or anything.  It was huge when Sims first came out because it was one of the first ones that allowed you to be gay.  But it's a poor substitute for an actual written gay character.  I think Arcade was a fantastic gay character.  Possibly my favorite gay video game character ever.  But Bioware is the really the only company that is writing gay characters, with thoughts and feelings, and they are doing it regularly and better than any other company.  And DA: I, bugs and all, has the best representation of their games. 

 

Naw, same old sims. You can create whatever sims you want, but there's no writing or story.

[atlantico]

I haven't played Sims 4.  Is it different than other Sims games?  The other ones that I played didn't have any actual plots or anything.  It was huge when Sims first came out because it was one of the first ones that allowed you to be gay.  But it's a poor substitute for an actual written gay character.  I think Arcade was a fantastic gay character.  Possibly my favorite gay video game character ever.  But Bioware is the really the only company that is consistently writing gay characters, with thoughts and feelings, and they are doing it regularly and better than any other company.  And DA: I, bugs and all, has the best representation of their games. 

 

I don't think anyone can accuse the Sims of having a plot, but representing LGBT characters, how they live, love, interact, express themselves and are a part of a community, I'd say Sims 4 has DA:I beaten hands down. That is more salient to actual representation than side-content in a generic sword and sorcery action fantasy adventure game.

 

Perhaps DA:I has the best written LGBT characters of 2014 in a computer game, I don't know, there may well be others out there - but as for representing the them in general - I'd have to say Maxis has it's fellow EA Bioware division beat, soundly. 

[ShinsFortress]

I'm not sure where to start with this one.  It's almost Yahoo! Answers level....

[Spectre Impersonator]

Judging by the quality of the rest of the game, Bioware was so focused on placating every variation of the LGBT community that they forgot to beta test and give the Inquisitor some personality.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

... but this didn't happen on tumblr? 

 

http://www.glaad.org/

 

 

Then my friend said, "Ah that explains the whole drama about people being upset at GLAAD as said people think DA:I didn't do enough." (On that note my friend doesn't agree with said people.)

 

I was gobsmacked. BioWare "didn't do enough?"

 

He went on to describe what he read on Tumblr and several social networks and I couldn't believe it. 

 

[TheOgre]

Didn't do enough for the LGBT community? wow, and I thought I was a bit needy.