161 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

I'm sorry, I did not realize that you are either a troll or a bigot.  I sincerely apologize, and I won't make the mistake of lending anything you say the credence of applying logic to it again.  

 

It's highlighted above for the pure facepalm value, but there's no point in addressing any of the nonsense you spew.  You may have been raised wrong, but perpetuating idiocy as an adult is an active choice you're making.

How am I a bigot or a troll for wanting to have total freedom and experience on a RPG game? Are you seriously judging me on how I was raised over what I want to do in a video game? Oh...my...... GOD! Are you going to also going to judge me on how poorly my parents raise me because I love GTA? Yes the best part of the game is to run people over, and hire prostitutes... yes I even run them over to get my money back.

 

You may not want your choices and consequences to matter in a RPG.... I do. I don't want the LGBT community to interfere with my gaming simply because they're so easily offended by the content of a video game.

[Ryzaki]

Sorry but anyone who got told off by Krem need to learn basic social skills. (Edit: and no this isn't aimed at any post in particular).

 

Asking someone you hardly know a personal question in a group of all their friends does tend to lead to you being put in your place. I know this is a strange concept for some of you but yeah. Don't do it. Regardless of subject, regardless of whether you feel they're right or not. Just. Don't. Do. It.

[Lord Raijin]

Sorry but anyone who got told off by Krem need to learn basic social skills. (Edit: and no this isn't aimed at any post in particular).

 

Asking someone you hardly know a personal question in a group of all their friends does tend to lead to you being put in your place. I know this is a strange concept for some of you but yeah. Don't do it. Regardless of subject, regardless of whether you feel they're right or not. Just. Don't. Do. It.

 

Krem is comfortable discussing being trans, and the player will not be offending Krem by asking questions about it.

http://blog.bioware....s-krem-aclassi/

 

If Krem doesn't mind the personal questions why can't the inquisitor ask them in front of her friends? I don't remember her putting me into my place????

[Grieving Natashina]

Sorry but anyone who got told off by Krem need to learn basic social skills. (Edit: and no this isn't aimed at any post in particular).

 

Asking someone you hardly know a personal question in a group of all their friends does tend to lead to you being put in your place. I know this is a strange concept for some of you but yeah. Don't do it. Regardless of subject, regardless of whether you feel they're right or not. Just. Don't. Do. It.

I did do it once, just to see what the conversation was like.  I'll admit, I was a bit taken aback by the strength of the reaction, but it made sense to me.  After all, that was a very personal series of questions and Krem didn't know my character very well.  I didn't dwell on it, I just decided that future characters would leave well enough alone.  Folks getting all bent out of shape about this puzzles me.

 

To the OP: I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, and I don't blame you if you have decided to drop out.  However, I'd like to tell you that I agree and fully support your post.  I'm looking forward to more to come from BioWare, and I'm also looking forward to the forums calming down a bit.  It will, it'll just take some time.  <hugs> 

[Ryzaki]

Krem is comfortable discussing being trans, and the player will not be offending Krem by asking questions about it.

http://blog.bioware....s-krem-aclassi/

 

If Krem doesn't mind the personal questions why can't the inquisitor ask them in front of her friends? I don't remember her putting me into my place????

 

Then what's with the whining that Bull is yelling at the player about it? I never picked the choice myself **mod edit**

 

First off it's him. Second off I didn't say Krem did the putting in place supposedly people are saying Bull yells at them.

[Ryzaki]

I did do it once, just to see what the conversation was like.  I'll admit, I was a bit taken aback by the strength of the reaction, but it made sense to me.  After all, that was a very personal question and Krem didn't know my character very well.  I didn't dwell on it, I just decided that future characters would leave well enough alone.  Folks getting all bent out of shape about this just puzzles me.  

 

Wait so what does Krem say exactly? I was under the impression that Bull and Krem just said something on the lines of "No I'm not female can we move the conversation along?" (granted harshly because you're being a busybody but yeah).
 

[AresKeith]

I'm sorry, I did not realize that you are either a troll or a bigot.  I sincerely apologize, and I won't make the mistake of lending anything you say the credence of applying logic to it again. 

 

You definitely haven't been here long then

[Grieving Natashina]

Wait so what does Krem say exactly? I was under the impression that Bull and Krem just said something on the lines of "No I'm not female can we move the conversation along?" (granted harshly because you're being a busybody but yeah).
 

The reaction was mainly from Bull seeming rather gruff to my character at one point.  There is a comment that you can make about asking about Krem passing for a man that came off pretty rude from the PC.  I flinched a little, actually.  Bull responds sharply with saying more or less, "He isn't passing.  He is a man."   I guess I wasn't expecting him in particular to be offended.  I should have, because, again, that was his friend and I didn't know Krem that well.    Still, I guess it comes down to the fact that I made a faux pas and I learned from it.  I take it a lesson for other areas; even in a video game, people don't always take deeply personal questions about their friends very well.    

[Lord Raijin]

Then what's with the whining that Bull is yelling at the player about it? I never picked the choice myself  **mod edit**

 

First off it's him. Second off I didn't say Krem did the putting in place supposedly people are saying Bull yells at them.

 

Do you have a video of this? I don't ever recall this happening in the game.

[Ryzaki]

The reaction was mainly from Bull seeming rather gruff to my character at one point.  There is a comment that you can make about asking about Krem passing for a man that came off pretty rude from the PC.  I flinched a little, actually.  Bull responds sharply with saying more or less, "He isn't passing.  He is a man."   I guess I wasn't expecting him in particular to be offended.  I should have, because, again, that was his friend and I didn't know Krem that well.    Still, I guess it comes down to the fact that I made a faux pas and I learned from it.  I take it a lesson for other areas; even in a video game, people don't always take deeply personal questions about their friends very well.    

 

Yeah I just looked at all those investigate options went "yeah I can't see how those will possibly go wrong." /snerk and opted to move the conversation along.

 

You can talk to Krem one on one about it anyway which felt far more appropriate to me.

 

Do you have a video of this? I don't ever recall this happening in the game.

 

A video of Bull telling you Krem's a man?

[TheOgre]

I'm sorry, I did not realize that you are either a troll or a bigot.  I sincerely apologize, and I won't make the mistake of lending anything you say the credence of applying logic to it again.  

 

It's highlighted above for the pure facepalm value, but there's no point in addressing any of the nonsense you spew.  You may have been raised wrong, but perpetuating idiocy as an adult is an active choice you're making.

 

insulting people is hardly the way to go about making them look like the bad guys.

[TheOgre]

How am I a bigot or a troll for wanting to have total freedom and experience on a RPG game? Are you seriously judging me on how I was raised over what I want to do in a video game? Oh...my...... GOD! Are you going to also going to judge me on how poorly my parents raise me because I love GTA? Yes the best part of the game is to run people over, and hire prostitutes... yes I even run them over to get my money back.

 

You may not want your choices and consequences to matter in a RPG.... I do. I don't want the LGBT community to interfere with my gaming simply because they're so easily offended by the content of a video game.

 

Feel like I have to justify myself whenever I like a post so that people don't go "Your a bigot anyway". 

 

I feel BW is one of the companies that actually care about lGBT communities and I'm glad for it, games generally are too far behind on the times in that regard.

 

Not that my character would insult someone based on their 'pretending', I felt like my character should be able to be an ass if he wants to be, insulting someones beliefs or morals, IN character. Not just being able to call krem "her" but, being able to say people who believe that the chantry should have as much power as it is, I want to say they are morons!

 

And I want my facial expression to match that tone. 

 

Kinda related; but BRING back the sarcastic/forceful/diplomatic customization even if it's in a modified format, like "rude inquisitor" or something

[spacefiddle]

You definitely haven't been here long then

 

Coming up on 6 years, believe it or not, but I tend to ghost for long periods, then wander off, then come back for a flurry when there are Goings On and Things To Be Seen.

 

Or ignored

[Syre297]

. I've replayed that scene a few times and basically if you ask the 'wrong' questions to Krem it feels as though Bioware is breaking the fourth wall and is telling you off (judging by Krem's reactions), and then if you have the follow-up conversation with Iron Bull after that where you can ask about Krem being a woman, you get the whole "Krem isn't a woman" line from him - these conversations pretty much made me feel like Bioware was saying to me something along the lines of "how dare you, you ignorant bigot!". This makes it easily one of my least favourite scenes in gaming history purely because of this.

 

The reactions of the characters are pretty true to life. How would you expect someone in the same situation in real life to react? 

[Syre297]

What the..... hell? What kind of an example are you trying use here?

 

While Bioware did do good on representing Dorian, Sera, Karl, and Anders they did extremely poor on representing a transman because of the poor writing of her character.

 

Bioware was so terrified of offending the LGBT community over some friendly trans joke that they fail to realize the realization of the fact that not everyone is pro LGBT, and that they shouldn't be forcing everyone just to accept it. Why couldn't I create my inquisitor into a homophobic, transphobic, anti LGBT charecter? Shouldn't that be my right? Why couldn't I have the freedom to have my inquisitor walk up to Cremisius Aclassi and engage in dialogue by criticizing her about her gender identity issue, and explain how selfish she was to run away from her family? Perhaps igniting a full fledged fight with Bull and the rest of his chargers which then results them to permanently leave Skyhold?

 

Patrick Weekes should of kept his first draft.

They can't force anyone to accept anything, but what they can do is write THEIR game they way THEY wish to. They have been upfront about the fact that they do include LGBT characters in their games, so that if a consumer does not wish to partake in a game which features representations of certain types or personalities of LGBT people, consumers are able to make an informed decision on whether or not they wish to pay money to play such a game with such characters that were written by the creators of the game. I believe the intent was for people who would enjoy the game, rather than people who wish to self-flagellate by forcing themselves to play a game with elements that they see as misrepresentative and offensive to their own sensibilities. 

 

But there's always a chance that I could be mistaken and BIOWARE is the elite head of the mysterious "GAY AGENDA" which is so secret that not even the LGBT community know what the actual agenda is. 

[BartDude52]

@Ryzaki: I'm sorry, but Krem was the one to bring up the subject (in front of me and the Chargers), so I felt it was my right to comment. If Krem didn't want me to talk about it maybe it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place, especially in front of someone who likely doesn't even know you're transgender to begin with. (To be honest, I thought Krem was just a really butch woman, which led to me picking the comment that goes something like, "you don't need to pass as a man", the first time around because I genuinely thought that's what it was. So, sorry, it's not always obvious to everyone. Don't bring something up like that and expect everyone to immediately understand what you're on about). If you don't want to get asked a personal question like that by a relative stranger, then don't bring up the subject in front of said stranger. Simples.

 

P.S. I know you said that your post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm guessing it probably was, and that person was likely me.

[Ryzaki]

@Ryzaki: I'm sorry, but Krem was the one to bring up the subject (in front of me and the Chargers), so I felt it was my right to comment. If Krem didn't want me to talk about it maybe it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place, especially in front of someone who likely doesn't even know you're transgender to begin with. (To be honest, I thought Krem was just a really butch woman, which led to me picking the comment that goes something like, "you don't need to pass as a man", the first time around because I genuinely thought that's what it was. So, sorry, it's not always obvious to everyone. Don't bring something up like that and expect everyone to immediately understand what you're on about). If you don't want to get asked a personal question like that by a relative stranger, then don't bring up the subject in front of said stranger. Simples.

 

P.S. I know you said that your post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm guessing it probably was, and that person was likely me.

 

It really isn't.

 

And if you don't want to be lectured you can avoid the subject. That does go both ways. You made your comment and you got a reaction to it. A well deserved reaction frankly.

[Panda]

I think Bioware did good job. It's impossible to make characters that everyone would like and think the character is good representation for them.

[BartDude52]

@Ryzaki: I'm sorry, but how can you just casually mention something so personal like that (especially in front of a stranger who likely doesn't know, I should point out), and then not expect a reaction to it? What kind of BS is that?

 

If I don't want some stranger to comment on something really personal and sensitive to me, you know one thing I do? I don't just randomly bring it up in conversation in front of them! If you don't do that then you've no right to be so angry - you've brought on yourself, WTF were you expecting?

 

I'm sorry if that comes off as aggressive, but I just don't understand the rationale behind this.

 

Besides, I'm done talking about this anyways - I absolutely need some sleep!

[Reymoose]

The reactions of the characters are pretty true to life. How would you expect someone in the same situation in real life to react? 

 

Their reactions *aren't* true to life, that's the issue.

 

I'm a straight male, lived with a trans woman, gay man for about 2 years. It's never been an issue, never been a 'thing'. If it's brought up, it's akin to asking someone's weight or how much money they earn, like that's the thing that defines them in your head. It's an utterly immature way to go about getting to know someone or starting a conversation, it's something that people with no social skills ask. It's rude, and if coming from the person themselves, ordinary people's reactions would be..."So?".

 

Again, why is this a topic in the first place? A person/character should not be defined by his/her sexuality or race, or anything that they do not have control over. Sadly, when they are it comes off as shallow and a completely opaque attempt to draw attention to an issue that at least in game terms, isn't an issue.

[Ryzaki]

Actually it is. You don't have too agree with it or like it but, people have the right to voice whatever opinion they want whether its an enlightened point of view or not. I'm pro LGBT and while I may get into arguments with people who don't share my point of view they nonetheless have every right to scream and say how much they dislike it etc.

 

I'm sorry but no I don't feel people have a right to comment just because they overhear someone saying something. Regardless of subject. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and everything to do with basic social skills and minding your business and not putting your foot in your mouth.

 

Krem is a stranger to you. I don't know about you guys but I was taught not to make a big deal of someone's personal business in a group setting. Especially when I didn't know the person all that well.

 

@Ryzaki: I'm sorry, but how can you just casually mention something so personal like that (especially in front of a stranger who likely doesn't know, I should point out), and then not expect a reaction to it? What kind of BS is that?

 

If I don't want some stranger to comment on something really personal and sensitive to me, you know one thing I do? I don't just randomly bring it up in conversation in front of them! If you don't do that then you've no right to be so angry - you've brought on yourself, WTF were you expecting?

 

I'm sorry if that comes off as aggressive, but I just don't understand the rationale behind this.

 

Besides, I'm done talking about this anyways - I absolutely need some sleep!

 

I expect someone to have enough sense not to scrutinize personal business in a group setting when you hardly know them yes I do actually. And if that person does and their friends jump down their throat...well they brought that on themselves.

 

You say you have the right to comment but then want to complain about Bull's reaction. The whole right to comment you're lauding goes both ways.

 

As for aggressive not really seeing it.

[TheOgre]

I'm sorry but no I don't feel people have a right to comment just because they overhear someone saying something. Regardless of subject. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and everything to do with basic social skills and minding your business and not putting your foot in your mouth.

 

Krem is a stranger to you. I don't know about you guys but I was taught not to make a big deal of someone's personal business in a group setting. Especially when I didn't know the person all that well.

 

 

I expect someone to have enough sense not to scrutinize personal business in a group setting when you hardly know them yes I do actually. And if that person does and their friends jump down their throat...well they brought that on themselves.

 

You say you have the right to comment but then want to complain about Bull's reaction. The whole right to comment you're lauding goes both ways.

 

As for aggressive not really seeing it.

 

When I read your comments, it sounds like you actually believe people can be wrong about their personal beliefs.

 

IT was my opinion, that this is the feedback forum. Replying by asking someone not to voice their opinion any further because you feel more correct on the matter.. I can be wrong, and go ahead and tell me so, but is that what's going on here?

[TheOgre]

I would argue people have the right to "put their foot in their mouth" or behave like a uncouth fool if they want.

 

Can't like, ran out of them, should be far more conservative with my upvotes..

 

But yes, even if it makes people mad, or  infuriates them, you shouldn't have moderate your choices based on the other persons discomfort level.

 

Let a person's words define them, it should be on a person by person's ability to detest that persons words. If they wish to make themselves look or sound rude, then its on the person receiving that ignorance to react. otherwise, you get into the big debate of what's allowed and what isn't allowed, then it falls to whoever is in charge to DICTATE what is morally okay and isn't okay.