161 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

When I read your comments, it sounds like you actually believe people can be wrong about their personal beliefs.

 

IT was my opinion, that this is the feedback forum. Replying by asking someone not to voice their opinion any further because you feel more correct on the matter.. I can be wrong, and go ahead and tell me so, but is that what's going on here?

 

Is that supposed to be some kind of troll bait?

 

Like where are you even getting the bolded from?

 

I would argue people have the right to "put their foot in their mouth" or behave like a uncouth fool if they want.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. And of course following that logic they also have the right to get their throat jumped down for doing so. My confusion comes from the wanting to be able to comment on Krem but complaining when Bull gets aggravated and comments on them. They're commenting on someone's personal life in a group setting, this person is someone they hardly know and they're commenting in front of this person's friends.

 

And they act like a negative reaction to this is a surprise?

 

You can obviously ask Krem about it personally in a one on one conversation and his reaction isn't harsh.

[TheOgre]

Is that supposed to be some kind of troll bait?

 

Like where are you even getting the bolded from?

 

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. And of course following that logic they also have the right to get their throat jumped down for doing so. My confusion comes from the wanting to be able to comment on Krem but complaining when Bull gets aggravated and comments on them.

 

You can obviously ask Krem about it personally in a one on one conversation and his reaction isn't harsh.

 

Your quote below quoting someone, who highlighted that it wasn't someone's right to make a comment, as ignorant as it may be. It suggested you shouldn't be allowed to speak of certain things which are ENTIRELY subjective. This gets into the debate about what's okay to say, and not okay to say, ever. Not all people come from the culture you come from, or from my culture. That is why it's a case by case example of when you tell someone off or not, and avoid things that sound like it's morally absolute.

It really isn't.

 

And if you don't want to be lectured you can avoid the subject. That does go both ways. You made your comment and you got a reaction to it. A well deserved reaction frankly.

 

[Ryzaki]

Your quote below quoting someone, who highlighted that it wasn't someone's right to make a comment, as ignorant as it may be. It suggested you shouldn't be allowed to speak of certain things which are ENTIRELY subjective. This gets into the debate about what's okay to say, and not okay to say, ever. Not all people come from the culture you come from, or from my culture. That is why it's a case by case example of when you tell someone off or not, and avoid things that sound like it's morally absolute.

 

In real life? No actually I don't feel you have the right to comment just because you overhear something. It has nothing to do with me (or anyone really) being right either. It's simply minding your own business. Saying you have a right to comment is an absolute statement so not sure why you're leaping to point mine out but not theirs.

[TheOgre]

In real life? No actually I don't feel you have the right to comment just because you overhear something. It has nothing to do with me being right either. It's simply minding your own business.

 

Minding your own business? Okay yeah, privacy, again subjective. if you overhear someone saying anything you disagree with, unrelated to you specifically, you have the right to make yourself that annoying ******* who buts into peoples conversations. Culture does have a role in this too.

 

I agree that a person should expect the negative result from their ignorant action too as a result.

[Ryzaki]

Minding your own business? Okay yeah, privacy, again subjective. if you overhear someone saying anything you disagree with, unrelated to you specifically, you have the right to make yourself that annoying ******* who buts into peoples conversations. Culture does have a role in this too.

 

I agree that a person should expect the negative result from their ignorant action too as a result.

 

So I'm guessing this is mostly stemming from the differences in how we see someone's rights to speak as then. I don't feel it's a right to run your mouth. Can you? Yes of course. But a right? not so much.

 

That said we can at least agree that if you do say something you have earned whatever verbal reaction you get back.

 

Oh, I agree completely. It's cause and effect after all. If you say and or do something ignorant, foolish or rude expect to get called on it.

 

Yep just basic expectations.

 

Edit: Don't worry about it XD I get like that myself too. It's all in good fun

[Sylvianus]

Hated the part with Krem. That was just Bioware throwing their political message in their game. I was already annoyed by how they need to go to conventions, make public political statements, going to support political groups or journalists out there as a video game company, but at least I thought we were safe from that crap in their game. A red line has been crossed to me.

 

I'm not a ****** sheep that needs to be indoctrinated by what the devs think personally or politically in their life. Bioware has to stop over that kind of thing.

[Syre297]

Their reactions *aren't* true to life, that's the issue.

 

I'm a straight male, lived with a trans woman, gay man for about 2 years. It's never been an issue, never been a 'thing'. If it's brought up, it's akin to asking someone's weight or how much money they earn, like that's the thing that defines them in your head. It's an utterly immature way to go about getting to know someone or starting a conversation, it's something that people with no social skills ask. It's rude, and if coming from the person themselves, ordinary people's reactions would be..."So?".

 

Again, why is this a topic in the first place? A person/character should not be defined by his/her sexuality or race, or anything that they do not have control over. Sadly, when they are it comes off as shallow and a completely opaque attempt to draw attention to an issue that at least in game terms, isn't an issue.

While I agree with you that they shouldn't be defined by those things, maybe the Inquisitor has poor social skills. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that someone, maybe not everyone, could react that way. That is how the writer's chose to have Krem and Bull react in this particular situation. 

 

I think they did a god job in the writing of Krem. He didn't get all uppity about being asked about his gender identity, he casually stated his feelings like no big deal. Bull feels protective of Krem, so he put Quizzy in their place when he felt Quizzy was being rude.

 

I don't think that the single conversation that we have on the subject means that this is the definition of Krem. Mostly that idea is coming from Lord Raijin's odd ideas of how every single real life transgendered person is defined by their birth genitalia and not by their own personal gender identity.

 

Maybe it's mean to call someone out like that, but this is the second thread I've seen where Raijin is bellyaching about how Krem still has lady bits and is not really a transgendered person so shall be termed SHE.    

[Pillagius]

Well, no one complains about the "depth" of characters - that's what BioWare famous for! Unique personalities, looks, good voice acting and all - that's one of the BioWare's trademarks, and why we still buying their games, though we, practically know that release version will have a ton of issues(we bought DA:I, didn't we?) ! 

 

In DA:I everyone complain not about characters, but about godawful AI and tactical camera, also I can't stand all this console legacy stuff PC players are left with, I think every PC player does. Yeah, console players have their own issues with the console version - I know that, but face it - you're not stuck with some other platform UI and controls, unlike PC players.

[9TailsFox]

Hated the part with Krem. That was just Bioware throwing their political message in their game. I was already annoyed by how they need to go to conventions, make public political statements, going to support political groups or journalists out there as a video game company, but at least I thought we were safe from that crap in their game. A red line has been crossed to me.

 

I'm not a ****** sheep that needs to be indoctrinated by what the devs think personally or politically in their life. Bioware has to stop over that kind of thing.

BiAware has been rewarded for its social justice awareness game.

And no one care about horrible console port filed with bugs. And boring world filed with fetch quests, with no effect on main story, witch is 15h-20h long.

[Lord Raijin]

Feel like I have to justify myself whenever I like a post so that people don't go "Your a bigot anyway". 

 

I feel BW is one of the companies that actually care about lGBT communities and I'm glad for it, games generally are too far behind on the times in that regard.

 

Not that my character would insult someone based on their 'pretending', I felt like my character should be able to be an ass if he wants to be, insulting someones beliefs or morals, IN character. Not just being able to call krem "her" but, being able to say people who believe that the chantry should have as much power as it is, I want to say they are morons!

 

And I want my facial expression to match that tone. 

 

Kinda related; but BRING back the sarcastic/forceful/diplomatic customization even if it's in a modified format, like "rude inquisitor" or something

 

I want to make this perfectly clear that I have nothing against the lGBT community.... up until the point where they start to dictate what gets put into a video game or what not based on their emotional reaction to the content, and dialogue. Why should my choices be compromised in order to prevent a few people from getting offended?

[Xyxlplic]

I want to make this perfectly clear that I have nothing against the lGBT community.... up until the point where they start to dictate what gets put into a video game or what not based on their emotional reaction to the content, and dialogue. Why should my choices be compromised in order to prevent a few people from getting offended?

Feel free to offer your evidence that the LGBT community dictated anything at all to do with the content of DA:I. Or any other game for that matter.

 

Be warned - paranoid speculation and baseless assumption is likely to be forcefully ridiculed.

[dfstone]

Bioware has supported LGBT players going all the way back to Neverwinter Nights, kids.  If you don't like gay sub-plots then here's an idea, don't start a same sex romance.  

[Lord Raijin]

Feel free to offer your evidence that the LGBT community dictated anything at all to do with the content of DA:I. Or any other game for that matter.

 

Be warned - paranoid speculation and baseless assumption is likely to be forcefully ridiculed.

 

Go back and re read my post on page 3

http://forum.bioware...3#entry18477171

 

The quote that I provided was taken off Bioware's blog site.

[Zatche]

Go back and re read my post on page 3
http://forum.bioware...3#entry18477171

The quote that I provided was taken off Bioware's blog site.

He wasn't scared of the LGBT community. He was asking for feedback from them on a subject he knows he's not an expert in.

[Xyxlplic]

Go back and re read my post on page 3

http://forum.bioware...3#entry18477171

 

The quote that I provided was taken off Bioware's blog site.

I read it. No evidence whatsoever of anyone dictating anything. Frankly, only an idiot or a bigot would interpret that article the way you did.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

It's a description some wear with pride and some see as a pejorative. 
 
Social justice warrior. They fight for what they know is right.

SJW means nothing anymore, has become the generic go-to insult for anyone who dares support any "liberal ideas" now no matter how small, especially in the gaming industry "oh you want women & gays to be treated with respect? f**k you & your agenda sjw scum"

[atlantico]

SJW means nothing anymore, has become the generic go-to insult for anyone who dares support any "liberal ideas" now no matter how small, especially in the gaming industry "oh you want women & gays to be treated with respect? f**k you & your agenda sjw scum"

 

SJW is a person who supports socially liberal ideas in a self-righteous and knee-jerk way, approaches the subject with condescension and intolerance because he/she knows that the opinion they hold isn't just correct, it's *right*, meaning others are *wrong*. 

 

Often easily outraged and quite bigoted towards others. They consider pandering towards their pet cause to be a show of respect. 

 

A new strain of them is obsessed with video games, but no one really can tell why.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

SJW is a person who supports socially liberal ideas in a self-righteous and knee-jerk way, approaches the subject with condescension and intolerance because he/she knows that the opinion they hold isn't just correct, it's *right*, meaning others are *wrong*. 
 
Often easily outraged and quite bigoted towards others. They consider pandering towards their pet cause to be a show of respect. 
 
A new strain of them is obsessed with video games, but no one really can tell why.

Thats how it used to be used, against people who used social issues as an excuse to be aggressive a-holes towards anyone they disagreed with, now saying small things that support LGBT/women/minority issues usually results in mocking or abuse for supporting "agendas trying to oppress straight white males"

[atlantico]

Thats how it used to be used, against people who used social issues as an excuse to be aggressive a-holes towards anyone they disagreed with, now saying small things that support LGBT/women/minority issues usually results in mocking or abuse for supporting "agendas trying to oppress straight white males"

 

Well, there's no one overseeing the usage of the term, so yeah - I guess one can expect it for all sorts of reasons. It's the internets, people are dumb and don't know what phrases mean a lot of the time. 

[DirkJake]

And now we are back to misgendering, oh great.

 

This is another reason why I am so grateful for what Bioware did to Krem. They dared to include a transgender character, and they did it right.

 

Now I am going to use my status as a LGBT person to "dictate" Bioware to make him romanceable. 

[Zatche]

...you didn't actually address what we said. The matter of whether or not the lore supports the idea of magical gender transitional procedures is entirely besides the point.

The LGBT community didn't come and dictate the interactions to Bioware. Patrick went out of his way to show his friends in the community. They pointed out that some of Bull's lines would be considered hurtful. Patrick didn't want Bull to say hurtful things, because he didn't intend for Bull to be a jerk, so he changed it.

That the player can't say disrespectful things regarding Krem's gender identity is one of many restrictions on player agency. DAI doesn't let you be rude in general, which is really a different topic altogether.

As for Krem's pronouns. He wants to he called a "he". That's really all that matters.

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 27 janvier 2015 - 07:49 .

[TheOgre]

Krem is He I agree and should be referred to He, even if I feel my character should be allowed to be a rude or aggressive Inquisitor. But your right, this is a different topic. Sorry, out of likes for the day so I wanted to chime in.

[papercut_ninja]

I want to make this perfectly clear that I have nothing against the lGBT community.... up until the point where they start to dictate what gets put into a video game or what not based on their emotional reaction to the content, and dialogue. Why should my choices be compromised in order to prevent a few people from getting offended?

 

I want to make this perfectly clear that I have nothing against the cis-male community...up until the point where they start to dictate what gets put into a video game or not based on their emotional reaction to the content, and dialogue...

 

...enjoy your meal...

[TheOgre]

I want to make this perfectly clear that I have nothing against the cis-male community...up until the point where they start to dictate what gets put into a video game or not based on their emotional reaction to the content, and dialogue...

...enjoy your meal...

Still hoping we get that Elven cougar romance option!