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Nightmare mage build pre skyhold. Help!


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#1
Exalted_One

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Hai so I'm going to run a Nightmare run with my mage but I realized that I don't for the life of me know what to build pre skyhold for nightmare, do I need alot of cc?

 

I know what i'm going to build when i get to skyhold but I would appreciate any tips or suggestions on pre skyhold builds you have. I have checked out the builds in the pre skyhold thread but I don't know if they work for knightmare so any thoughts on that would be appreciated also.

 

This is my first time running nightmare mode in basically any game so go easy on me and Thanks for any help you can give me. Have a nice day.(English is not my native language sorry)

 

"Will try to Solo sorry for not mentioning it earlier"



#2
Artemis Leonhart

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I managed to survive decently by getting Static Cage and its upgrade from the Storm tree as soon as possible, since it's a great CC (damage + makes every enemy in it stay inside until it lasts, so you can blast from afar while your tank beats them up).
Fade Step + upgrade from the Winter tree is a must for any build, I think.
From the Spirit tree, Barrier is a no brainer, then Guardian Spirit, Peaceful Aura and Dispel: dispel is huge, it can make a lot of fade rifts much easier since it lets you eliminate one enemy from the second wave outright which is a huge help, expecially if you manage to dispel a Terror demon; it also destroys enemy barriers.

(Keep in mind, this is how I played and it's not in amy shape or form the only viable build pre-Skyhold, or necessarily the best: this is just how I managed to get by 'til I got my specialization.)

Also, craft. Craft better equipment as soon as you can; save money and buy some nice schematics from Val Royeaux (they're pricey but worth it in early game) and craft the heck out of them. Or, farm some schematics if you feel like it.

I hope it helps! :)


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#3
Exalted_One

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Thanks m8 some nice advice! I'll try it out



#4
Fullmetall21

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You might want to spec out of the Storm tree if you decide to side with the mages. The red templar horrors are resistant to electricity other than that I highly recommend the Storm tree and Fade Step+. If you have left over points go for flashpoint.



#5
matcjur

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Mages pre skyhold are not great dps'ers. You should focus on the spirit tree(left side) and winter (winter's grasp until ice mine). If you have 2 mages in your party you can have 1 of them go down the inferno tree without forgoing at least basic barrier.

#6
Exalus

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Firemine, firewall, winter's grasp, winter stillness, barrier, fade step are core for pre skyhold builds. 

Static cage is not great until you can spam multi hit abilities (tempest or artificers). 

 

Excellent post with an optimized mage build here: 

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18110525

The things I need so far:

 

Fire mine - Main damage ability. 

Energy Barrage - Main damage ability.

Barrier - Sort of need it to survive rangers 'n stuff!

Guardian Spirit - An "Oh ****!" passive. I should never be low health more than once every minute, so this is awesome!

Chain Lightning - Solid CC.

Winter's Grasp - Another solid(Pun intended) CC.

Fade Step - Core ability. No mana damage and movement spell. 

Fire Wall - Solid CC apparently. Looks like it can stop melee.

Winter's Stillness - While both Energy Barrage and Fire mine moves the character, I need the mana regeneration desperately until I get Rift Mage!

 

 

 

Post skyhold, I would use solas as rift mage is superb then I would go for upgraded static cage.

 

 

Some power gamey stuff you can do:

You can get tier 2 ring velvet in fallow mire

You can get tier 3 willow weave in fallow mire from the revenant in the fade rift

You can get tier 2 paragon's luster in forbidden oasis

You can get tier 2 staff/upgrades in Val Royeaux 

You can get tier 2 rings (enhanced ring of attack, enhanced ring of critical chance) from barnabus in Val Royeaux with short list perk


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#7
Richiesdisplayname

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Take this with a grain of salt, since it's just my opinion, but honestly I've had the most fun before Skyhold with my (mod-made) Arcane Warrior. There's a mod on that famous mod site (ask me if you need it - don't want to advertise other sites here) that removes class restrictions on weapons, another on armor (although that's easily done later in the game by using the right materials). So a mage with fade step and just a one-handed sword can be immensely fun. Pick whatever you want for damaging, although the winter's grasp/immolate combo is one of my favorites, and the storm tree is great on its own.



#8
Nathonaws

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Pre-skyhold, I would definitely go for a fire build. The fire tree is the best combination of damage and CC available to mages, period. Wall of Fire is really powerful early on, allowing you to CC multiple enemies constantly while also dealing decent damage. Fire Mine is the highest mage DPS ability period. Then you throw in the passives - the fire passives are the best out of any mage tree IMO.

 

To go along with fire, I would also grab some Spirit Spells - at least get barrier and Guardian Spirit so you can protect your whole party and have your own "oh-****" emergency barrier. And then if you have some points left, consider picking up Winter's Grasp and maybe Chain Lightning or Energy Barrage - these spells would be in case you fight enemies that are resistant to Fire, and also to set up spell combos.

 

As a final note, I don't consider Fade Step a "core" ability. It's totally based on preference. I don't like it so I never really used it.



#9
wiredrawn

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Normally this is how I build my mages on nightmare, I also always have friendly fire enabled so my spell list is a bit different

 

Barrier

Dispel + Upgrade

Energy Barrage, Conductive Current, Lightning Bolt + Upgrade

 

Careful with lightning bolt though :D

 

Fadestep, Winter Stillness and Ice Mine - For more of a support build

( Ice Mine does hurt allies but only freezes them )

or

Immolate, Flashpoint, Clean Burn - For more of an offensive build

( Immolate also hurts allies but is controlled as opposed to Chain lightning )

 

If you still have more points 

Barrier Upgrade

Energy Barrage Upgrade

Gathering Storm or Static Charge

 

Flashfire and Winter's Grasp, great spells, but way too much energy costs unless you're going support then Winter's Grasp without upgrade works, the upgrade hurts allies. And flashfire panics things for a few.



#10
NaclynE

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After playing normal mode I kind of picked up a few +'s and -'s about some stuff regarding mage that may help/not help your mage. 

 

+'s:

 

Healing is a must. Keeping your members alive as best you can is a good idea. Researching barrier stuff (In spirit?) and the Revive is a must. However I wouldn't get MIND BLAST unless you want to just have a pool finished. Frankly I found a Superb Enhanced Barrier Ring which extends the barrier and have it deplete less to anything.

 

Combination of fire and ice pools work wonders. Ice slows the targets down and deal damage while fire adds a stun and DOT effect. Also with this combination you deal unique "COMBO DAMAGE".

 

Rift Mage specialization seems to be a good specialization. It contains AOE and single attacks and some buffs.

 

The Fade dash +upgrade spell in the ice pool is a must because if your going to get swarmed or attacked by a single guy/boss this will give you time to not get attacked or have an ally taunt to get the enemies off you.

 

-'s:

 

Lightning works wonders on some human oreinted targets but when it comes to Red Lyrium guys you'll see "IMMUNE" quite often. Sure Static cage is useful against clusters and some bosses but I am afraid against some bosses and if you go with the mage story you'll have crazy issues.

 

Ice seems to contain some useless spells like Blizzard.

 

Knight Enchanter is risky. It contains some buffs and in your face attacks which on Nightmare will get you killed in seconds.



#11
OrionAnderson

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Before Skyhold, I wouldn't even think in terms of a "build." You're not looking for synergies so much as grabbing the individually best skills. The only exception you might need to worry about is mana management. If you have more than two damage spells or your damage spells are both mana-hogs, you will need to take at least one mana passive. 

 

The folks here have all pointed you in generally the right direction. Barrier, Fade Step, Immolate, and Winter's Grasp are all great skills. Dispel is good if you have room, but you only need one on your team, so if you have two mages I'd stick it on your follower. Consider disabling the AI from using it, or they'll spam it constantly to proc combos. This can be bad because it breaks your cc, prevents awesome ruptures and shatters, and means you won't have it up when you need it. Fortunately, your pre-skyhold team probably doesn't have any sleeps and might not have any stuns, so this could be a non-issue. Now I wanna pick on a few specifics.

 

Unlike several posters here, I don't think upgrading fade step is really worth it before skyhold. It's an awesome escape skill, sure. The actual attack on Haven is way, way easier if you have it. (In fact, I often pick it up as my last skill before Haven) The passive adds damage with no mana cost, which is nice. But the total DPS is pretty bad, and if you're using it for damage you're not taking full advantage of the no-move passive. I would always take that over upgraded 'step. I would also upgrade Immolate, Chain Lightning, or Winter's Grasp before Fade Step. If you have Fire Mine, upgrading that is also a priority. It's not until I'm looking at options like upgraded barrier, threat reduction passive, or upgraded energy barrage/lightning bolt/ice mine that I consider upgraded fade step viable.

 

Unlike Nathanaws, I don't see the point of a "fire build" at this point in the game. Immolate is incredibly good, but that's as far as I would go. One passive gives you free cooldowns on critical hits, but you won't normally have any crit chance at this point in the game. One gives you free cooldowns for casting spells. That's good, but not as good as just adding another spell. Both increase your hunger for mana, and you won't have enough points to take both the cooldown passives and the mana passives yet. Wall of fire is great but may not be worth the cost in ability points. 

 

Naclyn's advice on specs is of course irrelevant before skyhold. He's right about Rift Mage; it's amazing. I don't think K-E is as hard as he thinks it is. You have a pretty low-cooldown invulnerability spell and you can get multiple sources of cooldown reduction. Before Skyhold, I agree that fire/ice works really well. Immolate is amazing in its own right, and while Winter Grasp is good-not-great, it opens up amazing passives. This is what I mean about having less a "build" than a pile of good stuff. However, I would skip Revive. It's not that hard to revive allies by hand, especially if you have fade step. Revive does it faster, but it also uses an absurd amount of mana. Basically, it prevents you from losing several seconds of autoattacks but at the cost of your next couple nuke spells. That's a net benefit but not a big one, and if your mana isn't nearly full when your ally goes down, then you're leaving them dead for longer than if you just rezzed manually.

 

As a final note, remember that even in an end-game scenario, there's little reason to specialize in one tree. Stacking the passive skill from across the element trees is a very good idea. Unlike in Dragon Age 2, there's no +%cold damage or +%lightning damage items. Cold has one passive that pumps up cold spells, but it's not good. Fire has two, but the barrier consumption one works great with just one fire spell. Getting Immolate, Wall of Fire, and +burn passive together is pretty good, I'll admit. But so is Immolate/Horrify/+burn if you're necro, or Immolate/any rift mage passive/+burn if you're a rift mage. As far as I know there is no storm passive that specifically enhances storm spells. 

 

The only other effect that rewards specialization in one element is energy barrage, but unless your element is lightning, then you're crossing trees by definition to pick it up. I don't recommend focusing on lightning because while the individual spells are good, as a group they have some severe weaknesses. Lightning Bolt and Static Cage are both worthless against paralyze-immune enemies. Chain Lightning is crap once there's only one enemy left. Everything is crap vs. red templars. Those 3 problems tend to stack up. If the you're fighting a boss with paralyze-immunity, then you become useless as soon as you run out of minions to bounce lightning off of. If you're fighting a boss with lightning resist, you're useless immediately. 


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#12
tself55

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Wall of Fire is the best skill pre-skyhold AINEC. Very few enemies resist fear (terror demons being the most common example).



#13
McPartyson

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Knight Enchanter is risky. It contains some buffs and in your face attacks which on Nightmare will get you killed in seconds.

 

This is false. A KE with Spirit Blade and Fade Shield can solo. You must of been playing wrong. Sorry.



#14
ApocAlypsE007

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At nightmare pre-Skyhold IMO your defensive setup is much more important than the offensive one. You want to stay alive with high health as much as possible, so you will need to control your tank most of the time. Enter battles with Shield Wall active (this is OP), and if in addition you have a 2H warrior, learn to time Block and Slash, or go for 2 mages and diactivate auto Barrier cast to give you more control. It is more important than the build you go for as a mage. As for the mage himself, I would recommend Barrier, Dispel, Static Cage (godly with upgrade), Winter's Breath and/or Fade Step, even Flashfire at times can be useful. If your party consist of 2 mages, do not give them the same abilities outside Barrier and Dispel.

 

For going solo, sorry I don't know much on the topic.



#15
DarkAmaranth1966

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Pre Skyhold, thus without a specialization, you are not going to solo a mage unless you have all the cc and defensive abilities you can get and, can kite well. For using the team, cc and defense with a damage ability or two. Still need to kite the tougher enemies, but with a team, that helps keep them from chasing you so much.



#16
ProfWhoop

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The best you can go (early on!!!!) is : FP + CB mixed with Immolate (and / or Fire-M) = Beast Mode. You'll (at last you can , if you're open to spend a while grinding/collecting and crafting crit pieces) have *almost* no downtime and won't have to use the pathetic Auto-Attack. While other Classes can out-dps us , we can take down a group in no time , w.o being a 'try hard'.

 

If you want to 'Solo' (no party) , take Fade-Step or Barrier instead of Fire-M and it'll work like a charm (just requires a little timing/re-possitioning).



#17
ottffsse

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OK. Skill points and abilities to take:

 

(solas is support, you are dps / crowd control)

 

1. Energy barrage.

2. Flashfire

3. Barrier

4. Winter's Grasp

5. Mana Surge

6. Winter's Ruin (WG upgrade)

7+. build up inferno tree up to wall of fire.

 

After skyhold / spec ditch flashpoint. You need freeze (winter's grasp) and panic (flashfire) as early as possible to cc enemies. Later wall of fire becomes the much superior flashfire.

 

Use a cold staff as energy barrage will chill the target and follow up with winter's grasp (upgraded) to deal 1000% damage. Should enemies be close to you and your barrier expire at that moment they will be frozen and also ripe for the 1000% damage of winter's ruin. Fade step is nice but a luxery, even when soloing.



#18
Bigdawg13

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necro ftw


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#19
PapaCharlie9

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necro ftw

Pre-skyhold, BD. Ha, wrong necro. I wouldn't have gotten that if I didn't see the other necro'd thread.

My pretty standard Pre-skyhold Pre-Patch 10 build for a single mage in the party, assuming a respec after the Prologue:

1) Barrier
2) Guardian Spirit (you will die a few times, so good to have a backup)
3) Immolate
4) Energy Barrage
5) Winter's Grasp
6) Barrier upgrade
7) Flashpoint
8) Clean Burn
9) Immolate upgrade
10) EB upgrade

After 10 skill points you should be in Skyhold, so I'll stop there.

When I know I will have two mages in the party, I'll split the division of elements and have one go deep in Inferno and the other go deep in Storm or Winter. I might also put Dispel on the second mage, sacrificing one of the active attacks for the skill point.

All that needs updating with Patch 10/Trespasser. I think Mana Surge becomes a priority and upgrading Winter's Grasp is now equal priority to upgrading Immolate. Maybe something like this?

1) Barrier
2) Guardian Spirit (you will die a few times, so good to have a backup)
3) Immolate
4) Winter's Grasp
5) Energy Barrage
6) Barrier upgrade
7) Mana Surge
8) Winter's Grasp upgrade
9) Immolate upgrade
10) Flashpoint

It seems absurd not to have Clean Burn in the first 10 points of a build, but I think Mana Surge may actually be more useful. Depends on if you are mana limited or cooldown limited.



#20
Evelynne

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Before Skyhold, I wouldn't even think in terms of a "build." You're not looking for synergies so much as grabbing the individually best skills. The only exception you might need to worry about is mana management. If you have more than two damage spells or your damage spells are both mana-hogs, you will need to take at least one mana passive. 

 

The folks here have all pointed you in generally the right direction. Barrier, Fade Step, Immolate, and Winter's Grasp are all great skills. Dispel is good if you have room, but you only need one on your team, so if you have two mages I'd stick it on your follower. Consider disabling the AI from using it, or they'll spam it constantly to proc combos. This can be bad because it breaks your cc, prevents awesome ruptures and shatters, and means you won't have it up when you need it. Fortunately, your pre-skyhold team probably doesn't have any sleeps and might not have any stuns, so this could be a non-issue. Now I wanna pick on a few specifics.

 

Unlike several posters here, I don't think upgrading fade step is really worth it before skyhold. It's an awesome escape skill, sure. The actual attack on Haven is way, way easier if you have it. (In fact, I often pick it up as my last skill before Haven) The passive adds damage with no mana cost, which is nice. But the total DPS is pretty bad, and if you're using it for damage you're not taking full advantage of the no-move passive. I would always take that over upgraded 'step. I would also upgrade Immolate, Chain Lightning, or Winter's Grasp before Fade Step. If you have Fire Mine, upgrading that is also a priority. It's not until I'm looking at options like upgraded barrier, threat reduction passive, or upgraded energy barrage/lightning bolt/ice mine that I consider upgraded fade step viable.

 

Unlike Nathanaws, I don't see the point of a "fire build" at this point in the game. Immolate is incredibly good, but that's as far as I would go. One passive gives you free cooldowns on critical hits, but you won't normally have any crit chance at this point in the game. One gives you free cooldowns for casting spells. That's good, but not as good as just adding another spell. Both increase your hunger for mana, and you won't have enough points to take both the cooldown passives and the mana passives yet. Wall of fire is great but may not be worth the cost in ability points. 

 

Naclyn's advice on specs is of course irrelevant before skyhold. He's right about Rift Mage; it's amazing. I don't think K-E is as hard as he thinks it is. You have a pretty low-cooldown invulnerability spell and you can get multiple sources of cooldown reduction. Before Skyhold, I agree that fire/ice works really well. Immolate is amazing in its own right, and while Winter Grasp is good-not-great, it opens up amazing passives. This is what I mean about having less a "build" than a pile of good stuff. However, I would skip Revive. It's not that hard to revive allies by hand, especially if you have fade step. Revive does it faster, but it also uses an absurd amount of mana. Basically, it prevents you from losing several seconds of autoattacks but at the cost of your next couple nuke spells. That's a net benefit but not a big one, and if your mana isn't nearly full when your ally goes down, then you're leaving them dead for longer than if you just rezzed manually.

 

As a final note, remember that even in an end-game scenario, there's little reason to specialize in one tree. Stacking the passive skill from across the element trees is a very good idea. Unlike in Dragon Age 2, there's no +%cold damage or +%lightning damage items. Cold has one passive that pumps up cold spells, but it's not good. Fire has two, but the barrier consumption one works great with just one fire spell. Getting Immolate, Wall of Fire, and +burn passive together is pretty good, I'll admit. But so is Immolate/Horrify/+burn if you're necro, or Immolate/any rift mage passive/+burn if you're a rift mage. As far as I know there is no storm passive that specifically enhances storm spells. 

 

The only other effect that rewards specialization in one element is energy barrage, but unless your element is lightning, then you're crossing trees by definition to pick it up. I don't recommend focusing on lightning because while the individual spells are good, as a group they have some severe weaknesses. Lightning Bolt and Static Cage are both worthless against paralyze-immune enemies. Chain Lightning is crap once there's only one enemy left. Everything is crap vs. red templars. Those 3 problems tend to stack up. If the you're fighting a boss with paralyze-immunity, then you become useless as soon as you run out of minions to bounce lightning off of. If you're fighting a boss with lightning resist, you're useless immediately. 

 

You can have more than one Dispel, its not like the game limits you on them, nor is one strong enough to eat a barrier on its own. The more dispels you can carry, the better, you get away with just one, but if you can carry more -- there's no real reason not to, especially on Nightmare. 

 

Storm tree is amazing for its passives, Gathering Storm early game is amazing and only requires 3 points to get. The thing with Pre-Skyhold is that you spend most of your time swinging your staff rather than your hands -- which makes the use of abilities far more strategic because you don't have the mana to spam them, so what you want to do is carry a staff that you know you can get a status effect you can capitalize on. A Frost Staff for instance gives you the ability to do Winter's Ruin to anything you're targeting, which is the heaviest hitting ability you can get for 2 points of investment. Fade Step is great for Mana. Barrier is a must have, especially if you're running a single mage -- unless you took the time to take your rogues and warriors deep into their support abilities (Toxic Cloud and Horn of Valor). 

 

The best thing you can do for a mage this early in the game is diversify your tool set, and be strategic. 



#21
ElementalFury106

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***NOTE: I am writing this with an Inquisitor in mind. I'd build companion Mages differently.

 

I'd say these are essential;

 

Actives

1) Barrier

2) Fade Step

3) Immolate

4) Energy Barrage

5) Static Cage

 

Upgrades

6) Lightning Cage (Static Cage upgrade)

 

Passives

7) Flashpoint

8) Winter's Stillness

9) Guardian Spirit

 

 

If you complete almost everything available to you before Skyhold (Hinterlands, Storm Coast, Mages/Templar questline) you should reach level 10-11. So you should definitely have enough skill points for all of these.

 

The game automatically awards you 2 skill points from the beginning of the game. 3 if you are a Human. Get a tactician renewal and get your points from Flashfire and Chain Lightning back ASAP.

 

I'd say focus more on getting certain actives and passives and less on upgrading your actives. The only upgrade to an active ability you should prioritize is Static Cage, because it is absolutely incredible.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

As for companions, I'd go a different route. Make them less about offense and more about CC and buffing. Pre-skyhold I'd recommend going this route with companions

 

Actives

1) Energy Barrage

2) Static Cage

3) Barrier

4) Dispel

5) Winter's Grasp

 

Upgrades

6) Lightning Cage (Static Cage upgrade)

 

Passives

7) Guardian Spirit

8) Winter's Stillness



#22
Matth85

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Static Cage is nearly useless pre skyhold. You are not able to capitalize on the damage, and you do not got the mana to spend on it.

Immolate is a filler. Rather meh.

Fire mine is your main dps. Able to hit over 1k as soon as you get it. I'd also go down frost to get upgraded wintersgrasp, and have a second mage with frost mine.