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Last Impressions: Fan/Dev Disconnect


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#101
DragonAddict

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Except that most people who bought DA2, wanted Origins 2.. We were diappointed.. We then bought DA:I, because we were told they developed it specifically to brng back what was loved in Origins, with that combat flare from DA2... Im not speaking for everyone but i feel quite confident that a large portion of the PC community was hoping for, and expecting Origins 2...

 

Totally agree and I've read many posts and threads also wanting the same thing.

 

 

100% agree with this.

 

I also bought DA2 digital deluxe and was very dispointed.

 

I expected DAI to be optimzed for the PC at launch and not only have cameos of characters from DAO.....

 

DAO2 would of made me the happiest guy ever.....don't care if Bioware even wanted $100 for DAO2.......here's my cash!!!


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#102
Jackal19851111

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If "Bioware" isn't going to change their direction I just hope the devs that actually understand the Bioware formula will leave and make their own indie. Not very difficult to raise funds in kickstarter when they have Bioware games on their portfolio, considering some already did with the Banner Saga. People will pay MORE than $100. Hell gamers have no trouble forking out $5K-$10K to raise funds with Star Citizen. It's also this disconnect that worries me, if "Bioware" considers all 'kids' it is seriously their loss. Money is not an issue for many of us.

 

take-my-money.gif


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#103
DragonAddict

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Exactly......I don't care if I get a Bioware game on sale for $45 CAD, or full price of $60 CAD or even $100 CAD.

 

 

It's the quality and what you can do in the game that matter to me.....

 

 

The more its simplified, limited to what you should be able to do, dumbed down, hack and slash, short main story, etc, etc, etc., the less I will like it, not pre order it and proably not even buy it and lose a loyal customer.


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#104
Ending

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Damn that intro for the DAO song you posted. Brought the passion of your post to life.

 

Do you enjoy the songs / soundtrack for DA:I? Apart from that bug mentioned. 



#105
Jackal19851111

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I do, hence I have always praised the sound/music design which is a shame as many are still unable to experience it.

 

Despite the quality of the soundtrack though, it's DAO's music that still takes the cake, as it brings back very strong goosebumps after all these years, due to all the fond memories that I've experienced both in the game and with the team. As I mentioned on my OP, it's not just Inon Zur's work that brings out these goosebumps. I hope "Bioware" realises this.



#106
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You're probably the only I've saw on here who I genuinely feel sorry for. There's plenty of these threads, but this one really hit me, especially with the main theme.

 

Is it possible for a DLC instalment to ease the pain, or is this cut too deep?



#107
TobyJake

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Prove it.

Do you ever make a 2 line comment? Which isn't belittling?



#108
Jackal19851111

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You're probably the only I've saw on here who I genuinely feel sorry for. There's plenty of these threads, but this one really hit me, especially with the main theme.

 

Is it possible for a DLC instalment to ease the pain, or is this cut too deep?

 

I do see the potential in DAI and have consistently praised the aspects of the game I love. Although there still persists issues with my personal experience in the game that disappoint me greatly, which I've already covered to death. However, it's not just the game itself that makes the magic, it's how Bioware communicated with and handled its passionate community that is part of it - and THAT is more important right now for me.

 

Without that, I see no semblance of Bioware.



#109
Ending

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I do see the potential in DAI and have consistently praised the aspects of the game I love. Although there still persists issues with my personal experience in the game that disappoint me greatly, which I've already covered to death. However, it's not just the game itself that makes the magic, it's how Bioware communicated with and handled its passionate community that is part of it - and THAT is more important right now for me.

 

Without that, I see no semblance of Bioware.

I know where talking about formulas here, but DA:O was set in the perfect time. Rise of the blight etc you can't mirror a game like that which is evident.

With inquisition, it seems to be the light and the end of the dark tunnel. The games seems more uplifting, like they are leaving behind all the bad things and looking forward to the future of Thedas with everything being resolved. 

 

Maybe the formula is still there, maybe it's not. All I'm trying to get across is, just maybe when the dark times return (IF they do) we'll get to see Broodmothers, possibly the old desire demons but I doubt it and finally the formula which made Bioware games.



#110
Jackal19851111

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It's not the setting nor the story that I had issues with when it comes to my experience with DAI.

 

For me my issues have been done to death and I've written enough (1000x posts) about it, but it wasn't the nail on the coffin. My OP covers my last impressions.



#111
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DAI was made for the PS4 and for other console's.

 

DAI was not made for the PC, but Bioware said DAI was made for the PC.......they purposely lied. Unprofessional and after patch 3 still not solved.....

 

Users that think DAI is the best rpg ever and game of the year, etc.,

 

- recently bought a PS4

- never played a lot of proper rpg's from many years ago

- never played DAO (what's that????)

- never played it on a PC or have used a PC in a while

- paid off by Bioware to say DAI is the best

 

Now if users have played DAO and many other rpg's from way back to present day, with a PC, not a console and then recently bought say a PS4, their comments would be different because they would also notice all the features and options that have been taken out of DA2 and DAI, how the games were simplified, hack and slash, basically dumbed down and useless filler quests, no storage chest, can't chat with party characters, etc....etc....etc....can't swim, static sky.......we'll, DAI is a very limited game with large empty static areas to explore.

 

I hope Bioware adds the features back with future patches and DLC's........if not, game is same today compared to next year, I for one will not be buying the next one.

 

Posts and threads here are of users that don't like the limitations, restrictions, hack and slash, no chest, can't chat, ruined for the PC, the list goes on and on yet DAI is the best rpg and game of the year????

 

No.....someone paid someone off to give reviews like that or people are stupid and don't play a lot of rpg's and only recently DAI and maybe DA2, both of which were for consoles.


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#112
luism

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Liked inquisition but Im done with this franchise. I played elder scrolls online last night with my cousin even though I hate mmos I had the acct collecting dust and my cousin wanted to play.

Long story short the game gave me the identical experience that I get out of DA I ! I could not believe it ! And the party banter was better since it was my cousin with me on vent. Da I has the prettier graphics but eso and da I are equal on exploration,quests, choices immersion everything!

People say rose colored glasses etc about origins BS I was playing origins till November 18 2014. I have bg1-bg2 Iwd all on this iPad. I play those games and they are fun but those are nostalgia games. Da O had its own mojo.

I won't be buying another da game at release. I like inquisition and the multiplayer is really the reason I'm still playing it since even with 3 maps I find it superior to Diablo 3 and I like to play mindless hack and slash games when Im bored.
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#113
Realmzmaster

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Mass Effect was always a shooter, which is probably why people didn't mind that the attributes were removed in ME2.

 

I personally didn't mind at all, because the RPG mechanics weren't very good in ME1 anyway. Not to mention that character progression was still present in ME2.

 

:rolleyes:

 

DA:I has absolutely nothing in common with BG1 and BG2. Nothing. BG1 and BG2 are absolute gems and two of the best RPGs ever made. Stop comparing them to this DA:I drivel.

 

I know that won't stop you from posting that nonsense, but I wanted to point that out anyway.

 

 

You should know by now I have my opinions and no it will not stop me from posting them. I also state why I believe it to be so. Called it nonsense if you will but I am not the only one who believes that DAI took design concepts from BG1.


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#114
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You should know by now I have my opinions and no it will not stop me from posting them. I also state why I believe it to be so. Called it nonsense if you will but I am not the only one who believes that DAI took design concepts from BG1.

Feel free to post your opinion, even though it is complete nonsense.

 

DA:I is not influenced by BG1 or BG2 in the slightest. It is influenced by Skyrim, Assassin's Creed and Dragon Age 2. DA:O took very many design concepts from the Baldur's Gate series, but those influences are practically completely gone in DA:I.

 

Is almost insulting to even think about comparing two of the best RPGs ever made to this drivel with its "hold right trigger to win" combat.



#115
Il Divo

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Feel free to post your opinion, even though it is complete nonsense.

 

DA:I is not influenced by BG1 or BG2 in the slightest. It is influenced by Skyrim, Assassin's Creed and Dragon Age 2. DA:O took very many design concepts from the Baldur's Gate series, but those influences are practically completely gone in DA:I.

 

Is almost insulting to even think about comparing two of the best RPGs ever made to this drivel with its "hold right trigger to win" combat.

 

I dunno. It certainly replicates BG1 in the bland exploration department. And I can't say that game has aged well. 


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#116
dlux

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I dunno. It certainly replicates BG1 in the bland exploration department. And I can't say that game has aged well. 

In BG1 there wasn't nearly as much exploration as in DA:I, not even close. It hardly had any filler either.

 

You could actually find really cool quests (Melikamp the Chicken anyone? :D) and neat items in BG1 by exploring, which isn't the case in DA:I. "Exploration" is truly bland in Dragon Age: Inqusition, the game is all filler and no substance... Except for the writing I guess.


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#117
Koneko Koji

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I connected far better with Origins than any of the games since - I enjoyed DA2 eventually, but to start with I hated it for being so different, but the characterisation was good and in the end I loved it.

Inquisition is the first full priced game I've purchased in 4 years (due to the travesty that was the half a game known as Fallout: New Vegas), and I was really looking forward to it - and it's because of Origins; that one game sparked my love for the franchise, getting me to go as far as reading the novels etc (which are fab and dealt with the one Origins character I hated in a way that made me smile) - so I do feel let down, I still feel like I'm waiting for the game, that we've been given the bare bones and it's sad.

Still, I've always got Origins to replay, and I've saved half the different origin stories so I've got something new <3


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#118
Il Divo

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In BG1 there wasn't nearly as much exploration as in DA:I, not even close. It hardly had any filler either.

 

You could actually find really cool quests (Melikamp the Chicken anyone? :D) and neat items in BG1 by exploring, which isn't the case in DA:I. "Exploration" is truly bland in Dragon Age: Inqusition, the game is all filler and no substance... Except for the writing I guess.

 

I seem to recall an entire sandbox of almost 25 generic areas to explore, top to bottom? Even worse since the BG1 party would move at a snail's pace. It was essentially an open world exploration in the style of a dungeon crawl with a bit of dialogue thrown in for good measure. 

 

I also wouldn't say that easter eggs quests/jokes really do much for bumping it up into "best RPG" territory. No more than the "go kill white wolves/wyvern/ogre" quests anyway, which were also heavily represented. 



#119
sinosleep

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Bg is the most overrated game of all time. Yeah, I said it.
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#120
Noelemahc

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Well, to answer your question in two words: Mass Effect

 

That's the short answer.

 

For the long answer, I'll quote Brent Knowles, lead designer of Dragon Age: Origins

There's a phrase in there that bothers me badly, so I'm going to grasp it firmly in my maw.

 

 

It became more difficult over the years to argue for doing anything markedly different from what Mass Effect was doing. It was a project that struck much closer to its schedule, did very well (ratings and sales) and had the wow factor (the Silent Protagonist of DA: Origins never had the appeal that Shepard did, whether in company meetings, publisher proposals, or on press tours).

I find it ironic that Mass Effect 3 so thoroughly demolished all of the above.

There's a lot of influences in DA2 and DAI from Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, but just as the problems with Mass Effect 3, their problems stem from the fact that BioWare's takeaway from Mass Effect 1 was fundamentally incorrect.

 

What did people latch on to in ME1? The recycled Generic BioWare Female Starting Party Member and Male Starting Party Member (Voiced By The Same Guy As In The Previous Game, In Fact)? The awkward shooting controls? The sex scenes?

Maybe some people did, sure.

The big thing that made the big fandom was The Sense Of Awesome. The Sense of Scale.

 

The oft-maligned MAKO missions had a lot to contribute - you'd notice that DAO has a lot of epic open spaces, and an overall feeling that you're on a large-scale, if sometimes dull, trek through a whole damn country. It's a palpable sensation that DA2 lost partly because of the recycled maps and partly because of the godawful pacing (also because Kirkwall didn't feel like a story hub, but like a Prologue City #2 right before the actual plot starts and dumps you into the actual sandbox -> sort of like Haven is in DAI, you know?).

 

DAI reclaims some of that scale with the huge locations, but they're still painfully unconnected, y'know?

 

Mass Effect had problems with pacing, too, but in general, there was a pervasive connectitude. Departing the Normandy on a planet? You gotta go to the airlock and wait for it to cycle. You gotta ride that gorram elevator from the spaceport, or take a cab.

Going down on a planet ("Haha, Beavis, he said 'going down'!"), you get an animation of the MAKO getting dumped onto it, you don't magically teleport down.

 

Mass Effect 2 lost a huge chunk of that. It's obvious the cutscene loading screens with the schematicky arrows were supposed to replace all that to show you the transitions, but after Mass Effect 1's 1980s Decompressed TV Series style of narrative, Mass Effect 2 feels like a stage play adaptation of the lost episodes of that series.

 

"We can't have nudity, so here's more swearing. We have more budget, but still not too much, so we'll magically jump from set to set and hope the audience can follow along. We couldn't get half the cast to come back, so here's some more files from the Standard BioWare Cast", etc.

 

Dragon Age 2 felt similar - you're moving from an epic sprawling multi-movie series into a low-budget TV Series whose writer had lots of ambitions but the cast didn't play along and he had to edit it from what little footage he could force them to make.

 

Mass Effect 3 tried to get some of that back, but... they still didn't understand what magic element they lost, and so they tried to build up from the elements that made Mass Effect 2 a smash hit - which was accessibility to non-RPG players, diverse, if cliche, characters, and a linear plot. Sure, ME1 wasn't the most non-linear of games, I admit, but the order you did the planets in mattered A LOT (again, I regret that the subsequent games didn't do anything with "Garrus who wasn't tempered by Shepard before becoming Space Batman and is therefore Space Moon Knight" or "Liara who had lost her marbles from starvation" because ME3 ignores even what little character-movement these characters had in ME2 in favour of the brightest option available).

Mass Effect 3, in short, tried very hard to pretend it didn't have two 60-hours-worth-of-gameplay games behind it because it had to sell on platforms which didn't have those available, which actually tripped up Mass Effect 2 already (another past mistake nobody learned from).

 

DAI, like Mass Effect 3, had the same problem with viewer retention: it wasn't actually aimed at the long-time fans.

We can engage in pointless sophistry all day long, but for the most part, "it's a perfect jumping on point" were actual words said by a BioWare person to promote a threequel before, weren't they?

 

DAI doesn't resolve hanging plot threads from the previous games (a lot of folks fear The Architect's story will get resolved in a paid DLC, and he will be un-killed like Leliana and Corypheus were), doesn't retain design decisions from previous games (I'm pretty sure Halo players can recall similar frustrations when control layouts were changed from game to game), doesn't even try to offer things that you'd expect would be carried over from the all-so-important Mass Effect.

 

It's like after Dragon Age 2 crashed and burned mostly due to a mismanaged development process (most likely due to the budget concerns), they decided EVERYTHING that was learned from it would be restricted to "Varric is popular" and "everything Hawke touches, dies". You know, not the interface evolution (like them or hate them, the emoticons were an IMPROVEMENT with the stupid "guess what this dialogue option will actually do" game and it was dumb that neither ME3 nor DAI retained them), not the importance of internal party romance (as confirmed by ME3, yay), and certainly not the "PC gamers need a PC-friendly control scheme and console gamers need a gamepad-friendly control scheme and it PAYS TO ACTUALLY TEST THEM FIRST" fiasco.

 

And what do we get as the outcome? Half the (constructive) complaints against DAI were the same as against ME3 and DA2.

"Auto-attack is borked", "why did you change the controls", "the ending comes out of the left field", "did anyone actually playtest this", "why does the face look different ingame than in the CC", "plot flags didn't import", "was THAT what the dialogue option meant", "enemies are level-matched badly", "filler filler filler", "party doesn't obey "hold" command at all", "no dwarves are romanceable?!", etc.

 

I mean, isn't the point of feedback to learn from it? Or did the torching of the old BSN also involve removing all obligations to learn from past mistakes and improving upon the experience gained from making them?


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#121
Kulyok

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Did someone say Mass Effect 2? Man, I'm replaying it now, and it's like the pinnacle of creation - you're getting story and more story every five minutes. Sure, there's also shooting, and hacking mini-games, and weapon customization - but as you play, you're always getting engaging stuff, and you're never bored. No fetch quests, filler, or outright boring content. There's emotion everywhere, from the fish on the Presidium to Garrus' loyalty quest.

 

They just don't make them like ME2 anymore. I loved ME3's Tuchanka and Rannoch and the Citadel, and I loved DAI's characters and story, but I do wish the devs went back to the ME2 principle of "more story, less grinding". Crestwood was great - I feel if other DAI areas were like that, much fewer people would be complaining.


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#122
dlux

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Bg is the most overrated game of all time. Yeah, I said it.

So, the game that put Bioware on the map is the most overrated game of all time? That timeless and universally acclaimed classic and absolute gem of an RPG?  :rolleyes: I laugh in your face, dear sir, for writing such nonsense.

 

Anyway, Dragon Age: Inqusition is the worst game Bioware has ever made. Even with its mixed reception the game is completely overrated.


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#123
Noelemahc

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Did someone say Mass Effect 2? Man, I'm replaying it now, and it's like the pinnacle of creation - you're getting story and more story every five minutes. Sure, there's also shooting, and hacking mini-games, and weapon customization - but as you play, you're always getting engaging stuff, and you're never bored. No fetch quests, filler, or outright boring content. There's emotion everywhere, from the fish on the Presidium to Garrus' loyalty quest.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have issues with Mass Effect 2 too. The removal of the MAKO and the planetary exploration, as I said, has painfully reduced the sense of scale, and in the sense of the metaplot of the trilogy, ME2 could have been reduced to an Act 1, with the Collector Base serving as a Disc One Final Boss in the actual Mass Effect 2, which would be devoted to Shepard discovering the Grand Plot of the Reapers and spending the rest of the game combating Harbinger as he desperately tries to get the other races onboard for the Great Galactic War, which would be fought in Mass Effect 3. The series plot doesn't resume until the trek to blow up the Alpha Relay, borrowing set pieces from Dead Space in the process (did I ever tell you I consider the endings to Dead Space 2 and 3 to be more fitting than the actual endings Mass Effect 2 and 3 had?).

 

Instead, they built an entire game out of (admittedly, awesome) sidequests with the core plot incapable of standing on its own if you so much as try to smell it. None of it feels like filler because the entire game is filler, this is the sort of thing Japanese game devs label as a Gaiden Game just so you wouldn't have to waste a numbered slot in the series' progression on it (case in point: Super Robot Wars Original Generations Gaiden; or Super Robot Wars EX; or Super Robot Wars Alpha Gaiden; all of which served to flesh out plot holes of the games they followed without advancing the metaplot significantly).

 

 

DAI goes out the other end of the spectrum: you have exploration, you have sidequests (but not a lot of companion quests worthy of the name, a lot of their plots are reduced to War Table missions) and you have TONS of filler because all that empty space has to be filled in with something and essentially we get the MAKO Problem 2.0: lots of free space with not a lot of plot to do in them. At least Mass Effect justified the filler with the fact that these are, after all, uncharted worlds. This excuse doesn't hold water for an inhabited landmass in a fantasy story, you know?



#124
Jeffry

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They just don't make them like ME2 anymore. I loved ME3's Tuchanka and Rannoch and the Citadel, and I loved DAI's characters and story, but I do wish the devs went back to the ME2 principle of "more story, less grinding". Crestwood was great - I feel if other DAI areas were like that, much fewer people would be complaining.

 

Well, there a few other areas, that come to mind. For me it is Emprise du Lion and Hissing Wastes. Too bad both of them are completely optional and not tied to the main story in any way. I feel it is a shame some people might miss them, because they'll get bored in Hinterlands or frikin Exalted Plains and will just want to finish the game ASAP. Both Emprise and Wastes have engaging quest arc, are very well and beautifuly designed and have minimum fetch quests. I still think that if BioWare opted out for smaller number of zones, it would be to the game's benefit. More time could be spent on developing the rest of them and tying them all to the main plot somehow.


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#125
sinosleep

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ME 1 didn't have a high learning curve, ME 1 was poorly designed. VERY poorly designed. I played the hell out of it, and I've got great memories from playing through it, but in terms of mechanics, ME 2 and ME 3 positively curb stomp ME 1. I liked ME 1 despite it's flaws but once I got my "perfect import" for ME 2 on like my 6th playthrough or whatever I was glad to uninstall it and will likely never play it again.

 

ME 1 had FOUR weapons. Oh I know, I know, there were about 300 skins with a barely noticeable state increases as you went along but they mostly felt the same.

 

People complained about ME 2's reduced weapon count, but they did so blindly. Sure ME 2 had less weapons overall, but the weapons actually felt different. The schimitar was the large clip size rapid fire shotgun. The katana was the middle of the road shotgun. The claymore was the one shot one kill shot gun. They affected your style of play in a way no number of reskins from ME 1 ever could.

 

ME 1's enemy ai was was atrocious, the game had some of the worst texture pop in I have EVER seen, the stat allocation system made NO sense considering Shepard is established as a war hero BEFORE you start the game, and yet he can't hit the broadside of a barn because instead of using common sense and leaving stats to things that actually would take some time to master, they held on to the lets start your character as a complete novice trope. Which might have made sense if Shepard was a farmer or an amnesiac but he was a goddamned war hero. And let me tell you, you don't have to be a war hero to learn how to shoot. I went to basic training with hundreds of people that had never fired a rifle in their lives but that in 2 weeks that we spent on weapons managed to learn how to hit a target 250 meters out with ease. I was able to qualify with an M249 and an m60 in a day. After I got out I qualified with a shotgun at the police academy after using one for all of 6 rounds. Yup, picked it up, having never fired a shotgun, 6 practice rounds, passed. And lemme tell you, I'm not hot shot marksman and plenty of other people did the same. Guns are EASY to learn. It's a huge part of the reason why they so swiftly took over the battlefield. While it takes years to train with a bow, blade, or fist, basically any imbecile who isn't completely blind can become proficient with firearms in no time flat.

 
And as far as ME 3 goes, good god is the crying about that the most overblown thing in the universe. Mechanically, it ONE AGAIN, improved on everything the previous game had done and brought back some things that had been removed after ME 1 like weapon mods. Other than the last 5 minutes it was a GREAT game. So I like to take the common sense approach when it comes to ME 3. 5 minutes of garbage doesn't magically override the previous 25 hours where I had a blast. Sorry guys, it just doesn't. 
 
The comparisons between what happened to Dragon Age and what happened to Mass Effect are ridiculous. Mass Effect got BETTER as it went for the most part, Dragon Age got worse. 

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