22 réponses à ce sujet

[Rahelron]

I complained many times about the fact that DAI is full of grinding and that to experience the meaningful parts of the game you have to go through long sessions of nothingness. But then I thought about my previous gaming experiences and I realized that I would have enjoyed a game like this 15 years ago.

 

15 years ago (or something like that) I played Dark Age of Camelot, an MMO of the "Before WoW" era. When I logged in I had to contact your guildmates, agree on what to do, reach them (and there was no instant travel feature), wait for everyone to arrive, form a group and (finally) start doing what I wanted to do. Sometimes a class was missing and we had to find someone outside our guild to fill that role. If that someone wasn't good at the game chances were that our group would have been wiped out many times before being able to finally complete what we wanted to do, or starting to grind efficiently.

 

This is what I'd call "time to enjoyment ratio": the time that passed between the moment I logged in and the moment I started having fun. It was long and sometimes I experienced whole playing sessions without having fun at all, because the group was crappy, because there were other guilds stealing the raids we wanted to do, because the frontiers were too crowded there was no chance of being able to do the 8vs8 combats that were the most enjoyable part of the game (no, there were no instanced PvP battle grounds). Nonetheless I kept playing. Why? Because I had time and perhaps nothing better to do.

 

Now my life has changed: I work 9 to 6 (often 9 to 8), i live with my girlfriend (and I want to spend time with her), and I have friends I want to keep up with. My problem with DAI is the fact that I need to play at least for 3 or 4 hours to have fun with it. If i start the game and I play for just half an hour I can't complete a single story driven quest... the only thing I can do is completing one or two fetch quests or explore a small part of a new area, but those two activities don't give me any fun. If I start doing one of the main storyline quests most probably I will find myself in the position of having to interrupt halfway through because I'll have to go to bed, go to work, or go out with my friends. This prevents me from enjoying the best part of the game.

 

The fact that the game takes 100-150 hours to complete is even worse because I have to divide that time in 1 or 2 hours long playing sessions. Let's say that I can play twice a week for two hours: completing the game will require me more or less nine months, if I want to experience everything it has to offer. But nine months is too much to enjoy it in a cohesive way.

 

I hope you can see what I mean. What do you think about it? Is it good to have such long drawn out games that ask the player to play at least 4 hours at a time to enjoy them?

[Realmzmaster]

Have you played the other games in the series (DAO and DA2) did you have the same problem with them? Or is it because as you state your real life situation has changed. You no longer have the same disposable time you use to have. You have a girlfriend who asks for part of your time, especially difficult if she does not share your gaming passion. You have work commitments. You now have to divide and juggle your time between different pursuits.

 

A lot of posters on this thread had to crave out blocks of time say during vacation to play and finish the game. Some posters are retired or work less and have more "free" time to devote to gaming. Others may take 2 or 3 months to finish a playthrough due to time constraints like yours.  

 

Fun is subjective. Some gamers have fun doing the side quests or fetch quests others not so much or at all. The problem is finding the proper balance. That is always elusive.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

If I could not play for at least 4 hours of an evening, I wouldn't invest in a game but, nine months to complete a playthrough is not bad. I play some games that have no end, you can, theoretically, play the same game and always find something new to do for the rest of your life. Some people don't enjoy games like that. I do so for me, the more there is to do, and the longer the game lasts before ending, the better.

[AlanC9]

The fact that the game takes 100-150 hours to complete is even worse because I have to divide that time in 1 or 2 hours long playing sessions. Let's say that I can play twice a week for two hours: completing the game will require me more or less nine months, if I want to experience everything it has to offer. But nine months is too much to enjoy it in a cohesive way.
 

By "complete" you mean going everywhere and doing everything, right? I'm not sure that's a sensible approach to a game like this in the first place.

[Nimlowyn]

I can see what you mean, that's why I game mostly on my time off. I played DAI over my winter break and probably won't again until summer. My husband and I work together out our work/social schedule and gaming time. Setting aside chunks of gaming time works for us. I don't usually enjoy a game in small increments, because I want to play more.

[sim-ran]

I think you're right OP, with your lifestyle changes this game is probably just not right for you. To be fair with only an hour or two here I think you probably need to forget about recreating the old completionist RPG gaming you used to enjoy. I'd look at games with less time investment style than RPGs, or RPGs like ME2 and 3.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, but have the luxury of being able to devote 4-6 hours at a session to the game.  First playthrough took 250+ hours of game time, spread over eight weeks.

 

But what I hadn't realized until the last 50-or-so hours is that DA:I isn't like its predecessors.  There really is no in-game advantage to being a completionist.  Once I understood that there was no need to do anything other than the "Inquisitor's Path" unless I really wanted to, the game became much more fun!

 

Now, in my second run, I pick-n-choose which quests I'm going to pursue.  I'm at level 17 and haven't even gone to Halamshiral, or talked to anyone in Crestwood or Emprise du Lion yet.   I decided that the only side-quest that was really of interest to me was collecting the shards (maybe because I'd had so much trouble the first time!)

 

Since I've about maxed that, I'm debating whether to do some of my Companions' PQs or not.   But since this  time I'm the one deciding, (instead of feeling overwhelmed by the game itself) it's a lot more enjoyable. 

[Unlucky 13]

I understand where you're coming from.  I'm 37 and married with two kids, and I certainly don't have the time to dedicate to gaming that I did 15 years ago.  That being said, what I've changed to accomodate that is that I only play one game at a time, and I watch far less TV than I used to.  I generally game for 2-3 hours at night after my wife and kids go to sleep (not every night of course).  I'm now a stay at home dad, but before my second daughter was born and I was working, I would also spend about half my day off gaming too.

 

For me, if I CAN'T dedicate a minimum of about 50 hours into a game for a play through, its not worth playing.  For an RPG, I really want it to be 100 or more.  That typically means I spend about two months on a play through.  Makes me feel that I've gotten my money's worth in the end.

[thats1evildude]

Thank God I'm too repulsive and awkward for a girlfriend or a wife. More time for Dragon Age!

[Abyss108]

I can't imagine playing any RPG in 1 hour bursts... You'd have to stop playing as soon as you started a quest...

 

I booked a week off work to play Inquisition, and I'll do the same the next time a great game comes out. 

[Nefla]

I don't know if it's necessarily a "not enough time to play" issue. I have no life and play hours of video games every day and I also find the DA:I fetch quests insufferably tedious and pointless. They are a complete waste of time in my book and one the game forces on you if you want to progress to the next main story quest. Add that to the fact that I also find DA:I's combat to be extremely boring and repetetive, the lack of any choices or branching dialogue in the "side quests," companions hardly ever giving any input or interaction in quests, the lack of memorable characters who aren't part of the inquisition itself, the very few variations the main story has (including only one ending) and you get a game that I can't even bring myself to play anymore. Even DA2 with its' weak, disjointed plot and insane amount of recycling a handful of tiny maps at least gave you a lot of flavor choices and companions interacting with the world and the quests you were on. 

[Seraphim24]

I complained many times about the fact that DAI is full of grinding and that to experience the meaningful parts of the game you have to go through long sessions of nothingness. But then I thought about my previous gaming experiences and I realized that I would have enjoyed a game like this 15 years ago.

 

15 years ago (or something like that) I played Dark Age of Camelot, an MMO of the "Before WoW" era. When I logged in I had to contact your guildmates, agree on what to do, reach them (and there was no instant travel feature), wait for everyone to arrive, form a group and (finally) start doing what I wanted to do. Sometimes a class was missing and we had to find someone outside our guild to fill that role. If that someone wasn't good at the game chances were that our group would have been wiped out many times before being able to finally complete what we wanted to do, or starting to grind efficiently.

 

This is what I'd call "time to enjoyment ratio": the time that passed between the moment I logged in and the moment I started having fun. It was long and sometimes I experienced whole playing sessions without having fun at all, because the group was crappy, because there were other guilds stealing the raids we wanted to do, because the frontiers were too crowded there was no chance of being able to do the 8vs8 combats that were the most enjoyable part of the game (no, there were no instanced PvP battle grounds). Nonetheless I kept playing. Why? Because I had time and perhaps nothing better to do.

 

Now my life has changed: I work 9 to 6 (often 9 to 8), i live with my girlfriend (and I want to spend time with her), and I have friends I want to keep up with. My problem with DAI is the fact that I need to play at least for 3 or 4 hours to have fun with it. If i start the game and I play for just half an hour I can't complete a single story driven quest... the only thing I can do is completing one or two fetch quests or explore a small part of a new area, but those two activities don't give me any fun. If I start doing one of the main storyline quests most probably I will find myself in the position of having to interrupt halfway through because I'll have to go to bed, go to work, or go out with my friends. This prevents me from enjoying the best part of the game.

 

The fact that the game takes 100-150 hours to complete is even worse because I have to divide that time in 1 or 2 hours long playing sessions. Let's say that I can play twice a week for two hours: completing the game will require me more or less nine months, if I want to experience everything it has to offer. But nine months is too much to enjoy it in a cohesive way.

 

I hope you can see what I mean. What do you think about it? Is it good to have such long drawn out games that ask the player to play at least 4 hours at a time to enjoy them?

 

Honestly I see these things all over, the games are too long, too short, too this or that, not enough content, too many quests. None of these things matter. I think engagement is determined by the kind of sheer moxy and general theme more than any other factor.

 

You call it "time to enjoyment," I would call it "the degree to which the game sucks."

 

I'm not necessarily applying that to DA:I.. but yeah.. it kind of may just be the thing itself isn't as interesting anymore.

[katzenkrimis]

My life has changed: I work 9 to 6, I live with my girlfriend (and I want to spend time with her), and I have friends I want to keep up with.

You're doing the right thing.

Who cares about these stupid games. They are only worth playing if your girlfriend splits, you lose your job and all of your friends. Then they come in handy. As they'll help fill the void and get you through the inevitable depression of it all.

I know a guy who bought Diablo 3, Grand Theft Auto 5, and a couple of other new games. None of which he has had the time to even play yet. Because he has a family, and works as an astronomer.

If witnessing the birth of the universe or the death of a star is far more important to him than these games, I'd say he's a pretty smart man.

[sim-ran]

If witnessing the birth of the universe or the death of a star is far more important to him than these games, I'd say he's a pretty smart man.

I agree except the bit about buying a bunch of games you're not going to play - what a stupid waste of money!

Tell him to return 4 and buy something cool for the kids instead.

[Vox Draco]

I remeber years ago, still at school, you came home at maybe about 13 o'clock, pretended to do some homework, and then you had the chance to play until the evening...Games like Baldurs Gate were nothing t be afraid of!

 

Nowadays you come home after 5 p.m or so, tired, stuff to do, and before long its time to go to bed again. Casual is often an insult, but as I see it, if you grow older, casual becomes actually a bit more attractive. I still like my hard game now and then, but ... something like Dark Souls can wear you down quite easily, and if you complain, you have to hear things like "too weak, not for you" ^^

 

And damn you MMOs...I would really like to play one again, but I don't have teh friggin time to dedicate hours and hours to it, to a clan, to level up etc...maybe I should quit my job, live on welfare and start an MMO-career ...

 

I hate getting old ...now you have the money for all the games you wanted, but no longer enough time! Life sucks ...

[Shryke]

As is often the case on these forms, most of you seem to be missing the main point of the OP.

 

He is not so much lamenting the lack of time he has to play games as he is the amount of time that needs to be spent before he can say he is having fun with this game. It goes back to the ratio of quality to quantity in DA:I. I would argue that there is too much time spent on "working towards getting to the fun parts", instead of "playing the fun parts". Things like respawning enemies, HP bloat, and endless dialogues about nothing important all contribute to making the game more of a time investment that it needs to be to provide enjoyment.

 

Having two kids and a wife who works puts me in the same boat as many of you, but instead of lamenting not having enough time to play, I would rather address why this game does not allow me to have fun in the time I do have to play.

[sch1986]

I know what you mean. I do need at least 3 or 4 hours playtime to get the most enjoyment out of it. I can't sort through my inventory in half an hour. I can't talk to all my companions in skyhold in half an hour. I can't even figure out the darn war table ops I want to do in half an hour.

The only solution I can offer is to not play until you have 3 or 4 hours to devote to it. You must have days off from work right? Play on those days. A few hours of game time isn't going to cut into time with the girlfriend that much. But that might just be me. My boyfriend knows I'm a gamer- I need game time. He's fine with that.

But I guess for me personally I have never been able to play any game for half an hour at a time and enjoy it. Just feel like there's too much to do/see in a good game.

[sim-ran]

As is often the case on these forms, most of you seem to be missing the main point of the OP.

He is not so much lamenting the lack of time he has to play games as he is the amount of time that needs to be spent before he can say he is having fun with this game. It goes back to the ratio of quality to quantity in DA:I. I would argue that there is too much time spent on "working towards getting to the fun parts", instead of "playing the fun parts". Things like respawning enemies, HP bloat, and endless dialogues about nothing important all contribute to making the game more of a time investment that it needs to be to provide enjoyment.

Having two kids and a wife who works puts me in the same boat as many of you, but instead of lamenting not having enough time to play, I would rather address why this game does not allow me to have fun in the time I do have to play.

Now I'm just embarrassed for you. Go back and read the OP. He says the grindy style of this game is the kind of thing he DID enjoy in the past. 15 years on his lifestyle has changed/he's changed and this is no longer the case.

But well done, you managed to shoehorn in "the gane is boring and grindy" complaints in this thread. It's a good job too as I don't think anyone has made that critique on BSN yet...

[Nefla]

Now I'm just embarrassed for you. Go back and read the OP. He says the grindy style of this game is the kind of thing he DID enjoy in the past. 15 years on his lifestyle has changed/he's changed and this is no longer the case.

But well done, you managed to shoehorn in "the gane is boring and grindy" complaints in this thread. It's a good job too as I don't think anyone has made that critique on BSN yet...

I got the impression that he was more tollerant of the grindy, fetch-questy, etc...parts back in the day, rather than looking forward to and enjoying them.

[Guns]

Yeah, you're not really suppose to do everything available in single playthrough. It's an RPG. You decide how your character behaves and only do the stuff that character would do. Replay value, etc.

 

Reminds me of my dunce friend who joined The Companions, The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves' Guild, and the Mage's College all on one character in Skyrim.

[VahnXIII]

I'm in the same boat in regards to the time constraints, but thankfully I'm still able to find time to get lost in DA:I. I'm a regional account executive and my clients are quite demanding and nothing beats being able to crack open a cold one and have myself a great DA:I session. Also note my fiance goes to grad school on a couple nights out of the week that allow me to do this. Guess i got lucky with the whole work/life balance right now and I intend to take full advantage of it!

[Bizantura]

So, there apears to be advantages to being a recluse.  Aside from some worknights I do as I please.  Wouldn't want it any other way.

[Unlucky 13]

Yeah, you're not really suppose to do everything available in single playthrough. It's an RPG. You decide how your character behaves and only do the stuff that character would do. Replay value, etc.

 

Reminds me of my dunce friend who joined The Companions, The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves' Guild, and the Mage's College all on one character in Skyrim.

 

I did all that in Skyrim.  It was fun!    Other than the DA games, I've always been more of a one play through guy.  I want to grind out 150 hours and get everything out of it if I can.  Just my style.