64 réponses à ce sujet

[Violetbliss]

Hard to say, but warrior i think, for me. Reaver...I should like it, but it feels too spammy and too about damage to be fun. Sword and board is more fun in DAI than the other 2 games easily for me, but still it's just not my thing.

 

All classes has been trimmed skillwise so it's not like it's just mages that has a struggle there. Although, I don't really find mages bad if we're talking Singleplayer anyway. I like the 'team leader' feel of the class when you can control a bit more, and aid your team mates a bit more, and I just have a better overview than with DW rogue for example. I also feel like they can deal a lot of damage with the right setup, even a Necro.

 

Rogue on the other hand is very nice once you've graduated from the first 10 levels, those painful levels where dualwield rogue is the weakest class by far. But the game doesn't stay there, and I find its power increase to be the most dramatic of the classes. So in that sense it is different than from DAO where it was the mage who had that exponential peak moreso.

[Taliryn]

When I first started playing DAI there is a point in the very beginning when Cassandra tells me to lay down my weapon, and I have the option to tell her "I don't need a staff", and for 5 seconds I was "OMG I DON'T HAVE TO CARRY AROUND A STUPID STICK IN THIS GAME!!!"

 

sadly, my dream was crushed

 

I want to be able to conjure a bow, or dagger, or a BFG as a mage and wreck havoc!

[KaiserShep]

It was a novel and clever way to play the mage class and it's a shame Bioware dropped the idea. Magic felt more magical than random fire lightning or snow.

Force mage Hawke or Bethany felt like a Jedi.

[McPartyson]

I don't know why everyone says Mage is the worst.

 

Knight Enchanter is the most versatile class in the whole game and pretty much the best (yup). Due to lack of weapon switching, no other class can fight in range and in melee at the same time. Knight Enchanter can. It's the only class who can perform that role, a pseudo weapon-switch style class.

 

Examples of my favorite style with Knight Enchanter:

 

Get into melee --> Fade Step, Spirit Blade, FadeCloak/Decloaking Blast

Get back into range --> Winter's Grasp, Energy Barrage, Chain Lightning, Immolate

 

(I purposely don't spec Static Cage and Fire Mine because it would be too much DPS, lol, and i prefer insta-cast abilities to circle-aoe ones)

 

You can constantly switch back and fourth. No other class can do this. Unfortunately, it's so incredibly overpowered as well because Spirit Blade does far too much damage compared to the other spells (guard+barrier+spirit damage avoiding all armor, no spirit resistance in game), the passive Fade Shield is too powerful too, and with flashpoint/cleanburn all abilities are instantly refreshed, so a constant spamming of these skills leads to a literally invincible character who can literally solo everything and never lose health. I would personally nerf the knight enchanters damage but it's a single player game... It's as if Bioware needs to create a whole new difficulty just for the Knight Enchanter.

 

In my opinion, the Dual Wield rogue is the worst for me. I can't get him to work well when facing multiple enemies. The lack of survivability compared to the Archer is just too great to make me spec into dual wield. What's really lame is that the dagger abilities often flat out miss. I never miss with archer...so it's constant damage while outside of the big group of enemies remaining untouched. Dual Wield you gotta watch out for glyphs, aoe, melee...it's just nasty, why would you wanna be in that unless you enjoy the challenge? I'm sure the story is different in 1 on 1 battles....but this game is mostly about the multiple opponent fights. Archer wins.

[Winged Silver]

For me, personally, it was the warrior class. I started an Inquisition run through with a two handed warrior and just couldn't really get into it. It may have been having to chase after the scattering enemies, or just the general feel of (I tend to prefer ranged), but it just wasn't for me. The funny thing is that I started an Origins runthrough not long after, also with two handed, and while I do have a faster swings mod installed, I'm still finding it way more fun. But this is coming from the person who adores playing as a mage, so it might just be my personal taste showing through ^.^

[Chiramu]

Melee, when you take control. Melee is the worst in this game.

[Phoe77]

From my limited experience, I would probably say rogue.  I somewhat recently took a rogue through Origins and Awakening and by the end he was just a powerhouse.  DAI rogues do some great damage, but they can't stand toe-to-toe with enemies like they could in Origins.  The twist of it is that I kind of like it better this way.  There's no reason that my rogue should have been able to hang out in melee with like three knights and kill them all without any significant danger.  I like the more hit-and-run style they have in Inquisition.  Of course, that style also makes it kind of hard for the AI to handle melee rogues very well.

[KBomb]

I played an archer/artificer my first go round and I loved it. I had so much fun. Second PT, I rolled a mage/rift mage and personally found myself bored to tears-- and a little under powered until level 12 or so.

I am once again playing mage and I am going to try KE to see if it's any better. Mage does seem a bit dry, tbh.

Haven't played a warrior yet, but I do plan in playing a two-handed templar, at some point. I have personally found that to be the most boring class in DAO and DA2.

[KaiserShep]

I don't know why everyone says Mage is the worst.

Knight Enchanter is the most versatile class in the whole game and pretty much the best (yup). Due to lack of weapon switching, no other class can fight in range and in melee at the same time. Knight Enchanter can. It's the only class who can perform that role, a pseudo weapon-switch style class.

Examples of my favorite style with Knight Enchanter:

Get into melee --> Fade Step, Spirit Blade, FadeCloak/Decloaking Blast
Get back into range --> Winter's Grasp, Energy Barrage, Chain Lightning, Immolate

(I purposely don't spec Static Cage and Fire Mine because it would be too much DPS, lol, and i prefer insta-cast abilities to circle-aoe ones)

You can constantly switch back and fourth. No other class can do this. Unfortunately, it's so incredibly overpowered as well because Spirit Blade does far too much damage compared to the other spells (guard+barrier+spirit damage avoiding all armor, no spirit resistance in game), the passive Fade Shield is too powerful too, and with flashpoint/cleanburn all abilities are instantly refreshed, so a constant spamming of these skills leads to a literally invincible character who can literally solo everything and never lose health. I would personally nerf the knight enchanters damage but it's a single player game... It's as if Bioware needs to create a whole new difficulty just for the Knight Enchanter.

In my opinion, the Dual Wield rogue is the worst for me. I can't get him to work well when facing multiple enemies. The lack of survivability compared to the Archer is just too great to make me spec into dual wield. What's really lame is that the dagger abilities often flat out miss. I never miss with archer...so it's constant damage while outside of the big group of enemies remaining untouched. Dual Wield you gotta watch out for glyphs, aoe, melee...it's just nasty, why would you wanna be in that unless you enjoy the challenge? I'm sure the story is different in 1 on 1 battles....but this game is mostly about the multiple opponent fights. Archer wins.

I actually took my sweet time before completing Here Lies the Abyss, and Knight-Enchanter kind of makes a chump out of the Nightmare. I love electric attacks so I had it spec'd all the way and I kept killing nightmare spiders without even trying. I can see why this is a problem though. This spec is about as much a god as Solas.

[Bladenite1481]

Mages weren't versatile in DA:O. They had lots of spells, but their utility was quite low and it was plagued with opportunity costs. They were OP and comically broken, but I'm not sure I'd say the mages in DA:I aren't similarly OP. I suppose there are fewer broken/OP builds in DA:I than DA:O, but if you were going to build a gamebreaking mage in DA:O you didn't have that much variety in the build anyway. 

I would summarily disagree with your assessment.

 

DAO with about ten times the spells, weapon spec options and the ability to control your stats you could do quite a few things more than you can in this game. You could heal, be defensive, be completely offensive, specialize in long range combat with more than two spells at your disposal, specialize in trap like rune spells, enchant your weapons, specialize in debilitating the enemies without cross class combos trying to force you into the idea that everybody needs to be useful on the battlefield, be an actual shape changer, be an actual summoner of undead, buff your entire party or yourself, and wield a dagger if that's what you wanted to do.

 

DAI does not come close to that number of options in its creation. Your spells are limited, you're supposed to be more dynamically active with button mashing and rely on everyone else to use combos with effects that used to be controlled by your own spells. They didn't want Mages to be Batman anymore with a gadget for everything..so instead they gutted the fun and left them with a narrow and parochial view of the choices they used to have. It's like saying something grape flavored really tastes like a true tasty freshly picked grape..it doesnt, it just copies the most basic aftertaste and sensation in order to trick you into thinking that what you are imbibing is in some way tasty when really its just a soulless regurgitated machination of bug parts, chemical residue and sadness. 

 

To answer this OP I would say that Mage for what it used to be, Rogue because it was just poorly made. 

[sunnydxmen]

warrior

[In Exile]

I would summarily disagree with your assessment.

 

DAO with about ten times the spells, weapon spec options and the ability to control your stats you could do quite a few things more than you can in this game. You could heal, be defensive, be completely offensive, specialize in long range combat with more than two spells at your disposal, specialize in trap like rune spells, enchant your weapons, specialize in debilitating the enemies without cross class combos trying to force you into the idea that everybody needs to be useful on the battlefield, be an actual shape changer, be an actual summoner of undead, buff your entire party or yourself, and wield a dagger if that's what you wanted to do.

 

I did not say that you did not have options. I said that you were not meaningful. Like with D&D, many of them were trap options that - while not completely useless in the sense that they made you weaker for picking them - were so weak compared to alternative options they were not worth even glancing at when picking talents.

 

Weapon passives were garbage. Buffs and debuffs were almost worthless. Not completely, because they actually had an effect and did buff/debuff, but they were so grossly inferior to the direct damage spells that you were actively gimping yourself by taking them in preference to fireball and mop-up abilities. 

 

It's the same with statistics. Sure, you could max out Cunning. But that would be stupid, and it would be akin to maxing out Charisma in BG1. There was one stat worth maxing out: Magic. Everything else was "choose the extent to which you wanted to be gimped". 

 

You're not Batman with a gadget for everything in DA:O. You're Superman, and fans of that design are saying that the fact you could pick Super Ventriloquism instead of Heat Vision meant that you have some kind of really rich and varied power selection. You don't. Like with spells in BG1-2 and D&D in general, you have obscene amounts of garbage spells not worth taking combined with some rare useful spells you should always take unless your intentionally choosing to create a gimped build. 

 

DA:I doesn't have an especially varied design, and some spells are still trash. But the ratio of trash, trap spells to useful ones is much, much lower than in DA:O. 

 

Also - and this is a total aside - I really don't think the word summarily makes sense in context. 

[DanteYoda]

Rogue straight up due to how the Combat works..

 

Even melee warrior is better due the guard saves you when the insane combat/tactical messes up at least then i usually don't die..

 

 

Rogue with this combat is terrible.

[nikki-tikki]

Rogue straight up due to how the Combat works..

 

Even melee warrior is better due the guard saves you when the insane combat/tactical messes up at least then i usually don't die..

 

 

Rogue with this combat is terrible.

I like how it was more of a challenge. With Rogue Hawke it was just press A , maybe a backstab with beefier enemies, and then they are dead. Especially near end game...the only party members who could KS me was either Varric or Sebastian because they were ranged. Here in DAI I actuallly have to play the rogue part, picking my targets carefully and try as best I could to use all my skills tactically. 

 

Many may disagree, but I liked the challenge. 

[KaiserShep]

I like how it was more of a challenge. With Rogue Hawke it was just press A , maybe a backstab with beefier enemies, and then they are dead. Especially near end game...the only party members who could KS me was either Varric or Sebastian because they were ranged. Here in DAI I actuallly have to play the rogue part, picking my targets carefully and try as best I could to use all my skills tactically. 

 

Many may disagree, but I liked the challenge. 

 

I agree. The learning curve for the rogue was steeper here, but once I got the hang of it, I found it to be pretty rewarding, because I had to pick my targets more carefully, and it felt [relatively] higher risk and high reward for most of the game.

[Frenrihr]

Mages weren't versatile in DA:O. They had lots of spells, but their utility was quite low and it was plagued with opportunity costs. They were OP and comically broken, but I'm not sure I'd say the mages in DA:I aren't similarly OP. I suppose there are fewer broken/OP builds in DA:I than DA:O, but if you were going to build a gamebreaking mage in DA:O you didn't have that much variety in the build anyway. 

 

Dont do this people, please, its sad.

[Bladenite1481]

I did not say that you did not have options. I said that you were not meaningful. Like with D&D, many of them were trap options that - while not completely useless in the sense that they made you weaker for picking them - were so weak compared to alternative options they were not worth even glancing at when picking talents.

 

Weapon passives were garbage. Buffs and debuffs were almost worthless. Not completely, because they actually had an effect and did buff/debuff, but they were so grossly inferior to the direct damage spells that you were actively gimping yourself by taking them in preference to fireball and mop-up abilities. 

 

It's the same with statistics. Sure, you could max out Cunning. But that would be stupid, and it would be akin to maxing out Charisma in BG1. There was one stat worth maxing out: Magic. Everything else was "choose the extent to which you wanted to be gimped". 

 

You're not Batman with a gadget for everything in DA:O. You're Superman, and fans of that design are saying that the fact you could pick Super Ventriloquism instead of Heat Vision meant that you have some kind of really rich and varied power selection. You don't. Like with spells in BG1-2 and D&D in general, you have obscene amounts of garbage spells not worth taking combined with some rare useful spells you should always take unless your intentionally choosing to create a gimped build. 

 

DA:I doesn't have an especially varied design, and some spells are still trash. But the ratio of trash, trap spells to useful ones is much, much lower than in DA:O. 

 

Also - and this is a total aside - I really don't think the word summarily makes sense in context. 

And you're welcome to that opinion, but that is all it is, an opinion. You can pretend all you like that saying something is trash is fact, but its not. However the number of choices once available, the number of total available spells and what those spells in fact did without any assistance of any other class is quantifiable fact. 

 

I liked weapon passives, who are you to tell me how to play? Why exactly is your play style better than mine?  I can min-max with the best of them, sometimes I simply want to make a character fit the role I have created in my head for it. My ideas are very much limited in DAI, much more so than in DAO. So whether or not you can contend that spells or builds were complete trash as you call it is debatable, however the choice that I used to have to partake in that build is not. 

 

Summarily, normally meaning without regard, immediately and at once has in this case been used as hyperbole for me to say that I absolutely and immediately rebuke your assessment. Much like your comments of obscene, gimped and trash are idiomatic and exaggerated in the context by which you use them. If you don't want to use any form of semantics, then don't. But don't try the syntax and grammar game. I think you're better than that. 

[TobyJake]

You cannot compare DAO with DAI if you fail to take into account the DAO toolbar with the DAI toolbar. I am being polite here!

All the DAO mage non passives far outnumber the DAI non passives. And you can only use 7!! Mark of the Rift takes one slot.

Why give someone, regardless of class, 25 or more abilities and an 8 slot toolbar?

You would only be able to compare DAO and DAI if YOU pruned DAO to match DAI. Same goes for DA2, I am assuming vanilla here, no toolbar mods

[DanteYoda]

I like how it was more of a challenge. With Rogue Hawke it was just press A , maybe a backstab with beefier enemies, and then they are dead. Especially near end game...the only party members who could KS me was either Varric or Sebastian because they were ranged. Here in DAI I actuallly have to play the rogue part, picking my targets carefully and try as best I could to use all my skills tactically. 

 

Many may disagree, but I liked the challenge. 

I do disagree that games combat was fluid and linking skills was amazing, this game is like a slow RTS with button smashing and mouse clicking till its dead or your dead..

 

I've totally stopped using the tactical combat.. i just mouse click and spam and hope...

 

 

You cannot compare DAO with DAI if you fail to take into account the DAO toolbar with the DAI toolbar. I am being polite here!

All the DAO mage non passives far outnumber the DAI non passives. And you can only use 7!! Mark of the Rift takes one slot.

Why give someone, regardless of class, 25 or more abilities and an 8 slot toolbar?

You would only be able to compare DAO and DAI if YOU pruned DAO to match DAI. Same goes for DA2, I am assuming vanilla here, no toolbar mods

I always hated this in Guildwars series too, its done because the poor console people only have a few buttons..

[Bladenite1481]

I've totally stopped using the tactical combat.. i just mouse click and spam and hope...

Fellow poster,  this made me laugh. Thank you for that!

[hong]

Rogue straight up due to how the Combat works..
 
Even melee warrior is better due the guard saves you when the insane combat/tactical messes up at least then i usually don't die..
 
 
Rogue with this combat is terrible.

l2p

[Rawgrim]

This is a feature, not a bug.


This is a bug, not a feature.

 

Where did I say it was a bug?

[sjsharp2011]

I don't really know about worst as I think they all have their plus and negative points it just depends on what you prefer at the time. My favourite though is mage mostly as I often prefer to fight at range with a clear view of the battlefield. On shooter games ME included I tend to lean towards the sniper rifle a lot as I tend to like to take my enemies out before they even know I'm there. I do play as other classes as well but the ones where I can take enemies out at range tend to be the ones I use the most

[Kleon]

Downgrade of mages is truly drastic and disturbing. They can't heal, they can only cast big spells like firestorm with focus, they have no buffs, they don't even have the clasic fireball (!). There are no spell combos like grease+fire or glyph of repulsion+glyph of paralysis. New mana bar is annoying and very limitting.

 

I wonder whose idea it was to use previously common spells like firestorm, stonefist and walking bomb as specialization spells. They destroyed their own magic lore which was part of the gameplay from previous games which was one of the better things in combat, Now it is just a hack&slash which really offers nothing beyond facerolling. 

 

Rogues (archers at least) and warriors do everything better than mages. If crowd controll (only thing that mages contribute) is needed for anything in DAI, it is to keep enemies from attacking mages and sometimes rogues (they get 100% threat reduction with one passive after all) before warrior taunts them. 

[otis0310]

To me the combat mechanics are too action oriented.  You have to manually close in to hit the enemy.  Whether or not it hits is purely based on collision detection rather than defense/attacks rolls.  The list goes on.

 

Anyways, to answer the question.  Given the fact you have to manually chase the enemies all over the place due to a lack of auto-attack I would say that any melee character, warrior or dual wielding rouge would be very bad.