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[Daerog]

Cass is a fine Divine. However, Vivienne is the best.

 

She is devout, she is strong in character, she thinks about her actions before making them, she can easily weave her way around rivals and allies alike, she is a master at The Game, she is caring, she has the big picture in mind, and she is a mage. Yes, a mage, because mages are given a great gift and responsibility that most people are not granted, and so the Maker allows them greater potential than his other children. Vivienne is very responsible for her magic and doesn't let potential secret knowledge distract her from her principles and values.

 

Cass won't be as good with politics as Viv will be, but she could just have PR people handle that stuff while she can focus on other matters.

 

Vivienne can handle it all on her own, she is strong in all the areas necessary for being Divine.

 

Leliana.... she might as well make the Chantry a giant carpet for people to walk all over or dissolve it altogether. She wants compromises, she wants openness, and she wants to make people happy. Trying to please everyone will end with no one being pleased, and if the Chantry proclaims Truth, then that is not something that can be compromised on.

 

Leliana might as well merge the Chantry with the Imperial Chantry to unite Thedas again under one Chantry and free the Imperial Chantry from Tevinter corruption.... hmm... I won't really be opposed to that, though...

 

Bah, anyway, Vivienne for Divine!

[Helmetto]

Cass is a fine Divine. However, Vivienne is the best.

 

She is devout, she is strong in character, she thinks about her actions before making them, she can easily weave her way around rivals and allies alike, she is a master at The Game, she is caring, she has the big picture in mind, and she is a mage. Yes, a mage, because mages are given a great gift and responsibility that most people are not granted, and so the Maker allows them greater potential than his other children. Vivienne is very responsible for her magic and doesn't let potential secret knowledge distract her from her principles and values.

 

Cass won't be as good with politics as Viv will be, but she could just have PR people handle that stuff while she can focus on other matters.

 

Vivienne can handle it all on her own, she is strong in all the areas necessary for being Divine.

 

Leliana.... she might as well make the Chantry a giant carpet for people to walk all over or dissolve it altogether. She wants compromises, she wants openness, and she wants to make people happy. Trying to please everyone will end with no one being pleased, and if the Chantry proclaims Truth, then that is not something that can be compromised on.

 

Leliana might as well merge the Chantry with the Imperial Chantry to unite Thedas again under one Chantry and free the Imperial Chantry from Tevinter corruption.... hmm... I won't really be opposed to that, though...

 

Bah, anyway, Vivienne for Divine!

 

My first choice was Vivi, but then I thought about it second time around, and realized that as much as I like her, having a potential host for a demon on the Sunburst throne is a very, very good way to get you ass bit down on hard.

 

It's not that I don't trust her to be careful and I am 100% positive she wouldn't consort with demons, but Dorian did once say that even the best mages are susceptible to falling. I give not twenty shits about what Flemmeth has to say on the matter; the fact that it *might* be possible makes it a threat worthy of considering.

[Drasanil]

My first choice was Vivi, but then I thought about it second time around, and realized that as much as I like her, having a potential host for a demon on the Sunburst throne is a very, very good way to get you ass bit down on hard.

 

It's not that I don't trust her to be careful and I am 100% positive she wouldn't consort with demons, but Dorian did once say that even the best mages are susceptible to falling. I give not twenty shits about what Flemmeth has to say on the matter; the fact that it *might* be possible makes it a threat worthy of considering.

 

Tevinter has had mage divines for centuries now with no issue. When it comes to a mage of Viv's skill and experience, turning into an abomination is about as likely as her getting run over by her own carriage on the way to her coronation. 

[Helmetto]

Tevinter has had mage divines for centuries now with no issue. When it comes to a mage of Viv's skill and experience, turning into an abomination is about as likely as her getting run over by her own carriage on the way to her coronation. 

 

Except we don't know much about Tevinter, and even if we did, I wouldn't put it past them to allow for a demon-pope to sit on their throne, considering that they've allowed Venatori to exist, are home to the creators of the blight, use blood magic in secret (and even those who strongly oppose it are apparently okay with chasing the gay out of their sons using it. Like seriously, THAT'S your excuse?), and have done nothing of any good in Dragon Age.

[Master Warder Z_]

Tevinter has had mage divines for centuries now with no issue. When it comes to a mage of Viv's skill and experience, turning into an abomination is about as likely as her getting run over by her own carriage on the way to her coronation.

Don't know if a Black Divine never succumbed to demons.

It's never been clarified either way.

[Daerog]

My first choice was Vivi, but then I thought about it second time around, and realized that as much as I like her, having a potential host for a demon on the Sunburst throne is a very, very good way to get you ass bit down on hard.

 

It's not that I don't trust her to be careful and I am 100% positive she wouldn't consort with demons, but Dorian did once say that even the best mages are susceptible to falling. I give not twenty shits about what Flemmeth has to say on the matter; the fact that it *might* be possible makes it a threat worthy of considering.

 

There are the Knight-Divines, who are always around the Divine. They are senior/veteran Templars who could easily dispatch the Divine if she succumbed to possession.

 

With Vivienne being so Pro-Circle, Pro-Chantry, and Pro-Templar (although, she does acknowledge their abuses), she would only have good Templars keep watch on her. She even speaks to the Inquisitor about how she is in danger of possession by just helping the Inquisitor; she is not blind to the dangers.

 

So... ya, Vivienne being the awesome person that she is for being a devout leader and Knight-Divines always around her, I can see it working.

[Daerog]

Except we don't know much about Tevinter, and even if we did, I wouldn't put it past them to allow for a demon-pope to sit on their throne, considering that they've allowed Venatori to exist, are home to the creators of the blight, use blood magic in secret (and even those who strongly oppose it are apparently okay with chasing the gay out of their sons using it. Like seriously, THAT'S your excuse?), and have done nothing of any good in Dragon Age.

 

Well, that is just not true. They were pretty much the Rome of Thedas, bringing warring tribes under a single government, spreading knowledge across a continent, and probably other things that Rome did for Europe.

 

It has done a lot for Thedas, and not all magisters agreed with the Venatori. Also, it was... what? 8?.... magisters that brought the Blight and darkspawn to Thedas, you can't blame the rest of the Magisterium for that. Although, Archon Hessarian did bring the Maker's wrath to the Magisterium and the Altus houses during that glorious time known as the Transfiguration.

 

The problem of Tevinter is the Altus houses, really. When they were almost annihilated by Hessarian and his followers, Tevinter did great with outlawing blood magic, and both mundanes and mages could work in the same fields, politically and religiously. It was only when the Altus houses rose to power again did all the mage-only and mage-supremecy nonsense start up again.

[Augustei]

There are the Knight-Divines, who are always around the Divine. They are senior/veteran Templars who could easily dispatch the Divine if she succumbed to possession.

I can picture it now.
"She was possessed by a demon, I swear! Anyway we should settle the matter of the Sunburst Throne now. Oh hey! The new Divine happens to be favorable to my interests"
Them Knights-Divines are going to have a ball, they're probably kicking themselves they didn't think of this sooner =P
 

[Daerog]

Don't crush my dreams, man!

 

[Eliastion]

(...)and if the Chantry proclaims Truth, then that is not something that can be compromised on.

The problem with current/old Chantry is that it's hardly interested in Truth. The best example is the problem of Shartan - the Orlesian Chantry altered the Chant of Light and tried to erase from history elven involvement in the original Exalted March. It failed, the history is pretty widely known, but the great lie still stands. How many smaller lies were more successful over those 800 years from Chantry's founding?

That's why reformed Chantry needs to compromise - because it has gone far enough from its roots for the Truth to not be absolute - it's a speculation. And if you care about the Truth, you should closely examine the wildest of heresies, since ages of lies, mistakes and deception have taken their toll and nobody knows what the Truth is anymore. New Chantry can search for truth, it can try and research it, but it does not KNOW it. Chantry has sinned and it was a great sin against the Truth that can't be reversed - the only thing it can do is to learn humility... or it can return to being in denial, of course. But forcing your Truth on others when it's a known fact that your Truth has been heavily distorted along the way is hardly a moral or holy endeavor.

[BountyhunterGER]

For real? Leliana (unhardened, mage alliance) is the best Divine for me, but I like Cassandra as divine too.

As long as Vivienne (don't hate her but don't like her either) doesn't sit on the sunburst throne I'm fine.

 

Since every divine has its pros and cons (even if you don't admitt it) the question of the "worst" and "best" divine is just a matter of opinions

 - and everybody is free to have his own.

[Master Warder Z_]

Don't crush my dreams, man!

Leliana smells of burnt taco meat and fear!

[Aramintai]

Use facts to support your arguments. Or just show love for the Cassandra and Vivienne. The only Divine VIctorias worth mentioning.

Eh? Not sure if serious...But whatever. So you like Cass and Viv as Divines and Leliana is worst for you. Ok. I can tell that you probably always recruit the templars as well, right?

Well, I as well as many others go the other way and recruit the mages and make them free, so Leliana, preferebaly softened, is the best Divine for us. 

For me, perosnally, the worst Divine is Vivienne, because she's a patronizing, scheming ****** who crawled into the Inquisition for the sole purpose of a power grab. And she doesn't seem to be willing to change anything for the better. 

Cassandra seems ok, but remaning conflicts in her ending imply half measures.

But if Leliana survives through the radical reforms the changes she can bring to the world would be grand to see.

Although I'm not sure whether BioWare has enough resources to implement the all crazy variables in the endings, so I'm thinking new game will be far away from the south of Thedas or decades later after DA:I, so that none of this will matter in the end.

[Kulyok]

I think I'm going to skip recruiting Vivienne next time I play, just not to see her in that race for the Divine at all. I mean, surely the game would not tell me "and then a random mage you've never seen in your life took the Sunburst Throne", right?

[Eliastion]

Eh? Not sure if serious...But whatever. So you like Cass and Viv as Divines and Leliana is worst for you. Ok. I can tell that you probably always recruit the templars as well, right?

(...)

Let me provide you with context - the OP created this thread as kind of a "counter-thread" to one suggesting that the best (for most people) outcome is achieved by Leliana with conscripted mages. I wouldn't overestimate the seriousness of "worst Divine" debate even if it isn't a joke-thread this time  

[Steelcan]

Leliana smells of burnt taco meat and fear!

"meat"

[Aramintai]

Let me provide you with context - the OP created this thread as kind of a "counter-thread" to one suggesting that the best (for most people) outcome is achieved by Leliana with conscripted mages. I wouldn't overestimate the seriousness of "worst Divine" debate even if it isn't a joke-thread this time

Ok, it did smell like trolling.

[Eliastion]

I think I'm going to skip recruiting Vivienne next time I play, just not to see her in that race for the Divine at all. I mean, surely the game would not tell me "and then a random mage you've never seen in your life took the Sunburst Throne", right?

I'm only pretty sure - not completely sure - that you're right. And that's probably the only solid way to conscript mages and have Leliana as Divine, seeing that conscripting mages gives Viv relative +20 over Leliana (explicit support for one candidate gives her +10 for comparison). Cassandra fares better, but generally speaking if you want to conscript mages and not hand the throne to Vivienne, the best course of action is probably to never take her in.

[Master Warder Z_]

"meat"

Senna? o.o

[Master Warder Z_]

Ok, it did smell like trolling.

Like one it countered wasn't.

[Aramintai]

I'm only pretty sure - not completely sure - that you're right. And that's probably the only solid way to conscript mages and have Leliana as Divine, seeing that conscripting mages gives Viv relative +20 over Leliana (explicit support for one candidate gives her +10 for comparison). Cassandra fares better, but generally speaking if you want to conscript mages and not hand the throne to Vivienne, the best course of action is probably to never take her in.

Actually, there's another thing that plays key role in her candidacy - in Haven when you speak with her about mages, never tell her that mages should be with the Chantry and later in Skyhold never bring her up as a candidate while talking to her. That way the idea of a mage sitting on Sunburst Throne will not cross her mind (although I think she's faking it).

[jlb524]

I'm only pretty sure - not completely sure - that you're right. And that's probably the only solid way to conscript mages and have Leliana as Divine, seeing that conscripting mages gives Viv relative +20 over Leliana (explicit support for one candidate gives her +10 for comparison). Cassandra fares better, but generally speaking if you want to conscript mages and not hand the throne to Vivienne, the best course of action is probably to never take her in.

I think Vivienne only gets 10 points there.

I conscripted the mages this current pt and only got 10 according to the DAI plot flag reader utility. Right now, Vivienne's at 5 points while Leliana has 4. I supported Briala so this helped to swing it more in Leliana's favor. I still have to do Adamant and if I ally with the Wardens, Leliana should be leading.

There's also some more Leliana points I gained from badmouthing the Chantry and I think I'll have a few more of those by end game.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think Vivienne only gets 10 points there.

I conscripted the mages this current pt and only got 10 according to the DAI plot flag reader utility. Right now, Vivienne's at 5 points while Leliana has 4. I supported Briala so this helped to swing it more in Leliana's favor. I still have to do Adamant and if I ally with the Wardens, Leliana should be leading.

There's also some more Leliana points I gained from badmouthing the Chantry and I think I'll have a few more of those by end game.

I plan to conscript the mages and have Leli lead my next playthrough but I'm scared it may not work, since I'm on console and there is no way for me to track the points.

 

Also, what are my chances if I choose to force the three-way truce in Wicked Hearts? I have no intention of giving Briala the throne on that playthrough, and I don't imagine the truce is favored by Leliana. So I'm not sure how this is going to work for me. But I'm really intrigued by the conscripted mages/Leliana Divine setting.

[Eliastion]

Actually, there's another thing that plays key role in her candidacy - in Haven when you speak with her about mages, never tell her that mages should be with the Chantry and later in Skyhold never bring her up as a candidate while talking to her. That way the idea of a mage sitting on Sunburst Throne will not cross her mind (although I think she's faking it).

I'm pretty sure I never said the former and never talked with her about the latter - she still became Divine even though there was not a single hint that she was even a candidate in any conversation before that. It could be that I don't remember something, but... well. I'm afraid she somehow gets the idea all on her own even without you encouraging her.

[Eliastion]

I think Vivienne only gets 10 points there.

I conscripted the mages this current pt and only got 10 according to the DAI plot flag reader utility. Right now, Vivienne's at 5 points while Leliana has 4. I supported Briala so this helped to swing it more in Leliana's favor. I still have to do Adamant and if I ally with the Wardens, Leliana should be leading.

There's also some more Leliana points I gained from badmouthing the Chantry and I think I'll have a few more of those by end game.

Viv gets +10, but Leliana suffers a -10, that's why I said "relative +20 over Leliana".