I feel like this must have been covered already but I haven't been able to find anything.
Is there a resource that goes into detail about what the pro's and con's of each different rune is?
For instance what enemies they are best against and less obvious effects or ways to use them.
Not much to know, each offers a different elemental or damage against a certain type of enemy. Of course each will boost the overall DPS by a certain amount (Corrupting and Cleansing give the largest boosts) Generally a good Idea to have the non mage people with elemental runes different that the primary tree of the party mage and, mages with the demon slaying, dragon slaying, corrupting or, cleansing rune depending on what you are hunting.
Say you are an inferno mage going after a fire resistant dragon, well, then you want frost runes where you can and a dragon slaying rune for yourself. Going rift closing then, you want demon slaying runes. Going after corrupted, then cleansing runes and so on.
They're essentially flavor for your weapons. Even 50 damage doesn't mean pretty much anything late game, where you're hitting for around 700 - 1000. Combined with the fact that they don't work on most abilities, they're next to worthless in terms of your damage.
Choose whichever you think makes your weapon look the coolest.
They're essentially flavor for your weapons. Even 50 damage doesn't mean pretty much anything late game, where you're hitting for around 700 - 1000. Combined with the fact that they don't work on most abilities, they're next to worthless in terms of your damage.
Choose whichever you think makes your weapon look the coolest.
I feel like this must have been covered already but I haven't been able to find anything.
Is there a resource that goes into detail about what the pro's and con's of each different rune is?
For instance what enemies they are best against and less obvious effects or ways to use them.
Spirit runes on ya mages as they bypass all resistances, melee, my personal choice is superb demon slayer, you fight more demons than living in dai,.
Do Corrupting runes damage dragons? Dragons are "alive."
Combined with the fact that they don't work on most abilities, they're next to worthless in terms of your damage.
Don't agree with this at all.
Choose whichever you think makes your weapon look the coolest.
Very much agree with this.
Don't agree with this at all.
Please enlighten us then to why runes are remotely relevant to your damage beyond a minuscule level.
Please enlighten us then to why runes are remotely relevant to your damage beyond a minuscule level.
Really?
Really?
How is it a valid argument to just say you disagree and not provide any reasoning? Do you think there is a point in the game that runes provide a meaningful damage increase? Is there a class or specialization that you think runes are essential on? Why?
Just saying "I disagree" doesn't provide any meaningful discourse.
Some builds can rely on auto-attacks for a lot of their damage, with skill points used on abilities that are more support-focused or have high cooldowns. And everyone will auto-attack at least sometimes. I agree runes are not that important but they do do something and nothing else can go in those slots instead. You might as well get the most out of them.
For elementals lightning is the least resisted. I generally find fire to be 2nd best but it does depend on the area you're going to. As far as staffs I always favor spirit since AFAIK so far literally nothing resists it. I like demon-slaying best on the type-specific runes since they tend to be the toughest fights but Corrupting can be good as well since some of the tough fights are against humans (Venatori, Freemen, etc.) just due to their sheer numbers.
How is it a valid argument to just say you disagree and not provide any reasoning? Do you think there is a point in the game that runes provide a meaningful damage increase? Is there a class or specialization that you think runes are essential on? Why?
Just saying "I disagree" doesn't provide any meaningful discourse.
Why do I have to do math for you? This is why we learn math as kids in school.
Ok, fine.
I'll highlight a really favorable example to not only illustrate my point, but to also make you look even more ignorant. Throw in the fact that we get this bonus damage from runes at ABSOLUTELY NO EXTRA COST, and you look even more ridiculous.
But your query was regarding the actual rune damage, so let's go ahead and start providing "meaningful discourse" since you apparently can't or are unwilling to figure it out all by your little self.
Enemy chosen: Level 19 Wyvern
Location: Hissing Wastes, The Oasis
Heath of enemy: 22089
Notable Abilities: Cold Vulnerability, Greater Electricity Resistance
Inquisitor Mage rune: +25 Spirit damage
Sera rune: +25 Fire damage
Vivienne rune: +25 Spirit damage
Varric rune: +25 Cold Damage
You can get 1.62 staff attacks every second, and you can get 1.13 attacks every second with a bow (take the DPS and divide it by the individual attack number).
Inquisitor:
Inquisitor basic attack damage (5 attacks): 110, 164, 159, 113, 148 -- adds up to 694, averages to 139 damage each attack
Inquisitor rune damage (5 attacks): 39, 39, 55, 41, 55 -- adds up to 229, averages to 46 damage each attack
Calculation of how much basic damage could be dealt each second: 139 * 1.62 = 225
Calculation of how much rune damage could be dealt each second: 46 * 1.62 = 75
Total combined damage each second: 225 + 75 = 300
Sera:
Sera basic attack damage (5 attacks): 170, 197, 289, 339, 201 -- adds up to 1196, averages to 239 damage each attack
Sera rune damage (5 attacks): 62, 39, 34, 76, 67 -- adds up to 278, averages to 56 damage each attack
Calculation of how much basic damage could be dealt each second: 239 * 1.13 = 270
Total combined damage each second: 270 + 63 = 333
Vivienne:
Vivienne basic attack damage (5 attacks): 99, 128, 93, 95, 95 -- adds up to 510, averages to 102 damage each attack
Vivienne rune damage (5 attacks): 31, 42, 30, 31, 30 -- adds up to 164, averages to 33 damage each attack
Calculation of how much basic damage could be dealt each second: 102 * 1.62 = 165
Total combined damage each second: 165 + 53 = 218
Varric:
Varric basic attack damage (5 attacks): 173, 185, 187, 352, 190 -- adds up to 1087, averages to 217 damage each attack
Varric rune damage (5 attacks): 122, 133, 144, 130, 131 -- adds up to 660, averages to 132 damage each attack
Calculation of how much basic damage could be dealt each second: 217 * 1.13 = 245
Total basic attack damage of the 4 characters each second: 842
Total combined damage each second: 842 + 340 = 1182
Key Result:
Time needed to kill the Wyvern without any runes: 22089/842 = 26.2 seconds
Time needed to kill the Wyvern with the runes: 22089/1182 = 18.9 seconds
That would be a difference of......... 7.3 seconds.
That is freaking huge!
Say you're fighting three Wyverns. That's a pretty tough fight, right?
You could first hit two of them with disabling abilities, then focus on the third Wyvern.
Say you used a sleep ability, knocking two of them out of the fight for around 20 seconds. You have two Wyverns disabled/out of the fight, and one that isn't. Protect yourself with Barrier, Winter's Grasp, whatever - unless you're one of those people that think Winter's Grasp sucks too, based on what I know of you I would guess you do (Hint: it's really good).
Approximately 18.9 seconds later the thing is dead (though it should be almost certainly less because you wouldn't just be using just basic attacks for offense, though I suppose you could). Now you're left with two sleeping Wyverns, waking up about the same time your cooldown is coming back for the sleep ability. After they wake up, knock one out with the sleep ability, mow the other down with your party. Last one wakes up, it's four on one and you're cruising.
You could easily walk away from a fight against three Wyverns taking absolutely zero damage, all without using any stronger offensive abilities other than a basic attack. Obviously this becomes a bit easier because you're not restricted to only basic attacks, but the point is you're saving a lot of time thanks to the extra damage.
So, you're going to seriously sit there and seriously state:
they're next to worthless in terms of your damage.
So yes........
REALLY?????????????????
I didn't bother to put anything the first time because the argument is so blatantly stupid. You asked for it, and there you go.
If you're autoattacking stuff to death, you're doing it wrong.
That's what you got out of that huh? lol ok
I appecriciate the work you put in but it ignores abilities and passives and renders your analysis worthless it's not going to be seven seconds difference.
no because p AoE affects more than just one I've literally cleared that fight where you excavate the tunnel in the exalted plains in under 20 seconds charging bull, warcry, whirlwind and let the group cast stuff like knockout bomb, prison and you just spin its retarded how simple the game is after level 12 or so.That's what you got out of that huh? lol ok
It could be more if you're fighting a group of 5 guys, look at it as total damage. You get to the end a lot faster.
That's what you got out of that huh? lol ok
It could be more if you're fighting a group of 5 guys, look at it as total damage. You get to the end a lot faster.
Think you're missing the point that runes do not affect most skills. After a certain level, you spend less and less time auto attacking, and near purely casting skills. Certain class builds get permanent mana/stamina to just cast skills, or skills to reduce stamina cost. All classes have a way to reduce CDs, and some more than one. My Solas is built around crowd control and he can run Blizzard permanently without let up. High crit chance with flash point for a second cast every ten or a little over seconds. Combine his with my teams, and the fact I am a Reaver, auto attacks, even on Nightmare, does not happen often making me see less, and less of my runes dealing their extra damage.
snip
The fact that you're relying on basic attacks at all tells me really all I need to know.
They don't work on abilities, they don't have any meaningful damage, and each one is essentially the same. When I'm hitting for around 2-5k per dragon rage, I'm not choked I'm losing rune damage. When I'm hitting for 10-20k with Twin Fangs, I could give a rats ass about that I'm missing out on your stupid 50 damage from a superb demon rune. There is no situation where on a damage dealer I'm actually worried about what rune I have equipped. Because they don't matter.
When the game has enemies with literally tens of thousands of health, are you really arguing a drop in the pond like the difference between 30 and 50 damage when you're hitting for 700-1000 damage means ANYTHING AT ALL. That's why there's no point to choosing different runes. Because they're meaningless.
A DW rogue has 3 abilities on an 8 second cooldown.
A Reaver just uses dragon rage most of the time
An Artificer Archer uses abilities literally all of the time.
A W&S has 4 abilities on a 8 second cooldown.
Lategame you'll be lucky if I use 5 basic attacks a fight. Let alone strung together. You can kick and scream all you want, truth is, it doesn't matter if you use a lightning rune or a fire rune. The damage is minuscule anyways.
I never really saw that big of a difference, to be honest. If I slap a superb demon-slaying rune in the Staff of the Void, more than likely I'm going to kill the demons with my lightning attacks or spirit blade before that thing does its work.
Think you're missing the point that runes do not affect most skills. After a certain level, you spend less and less time auto attacking, and near purely casting skills. Certain class builds get permanent mana/stamina to just cast skills, or skills to reduce stamina cost. All classes have a way to reduce CDs, and some more than one. My Solas is built around crowd control and he can run Blizzard permanently without let up. High crit chance with flash point for a second cast every ten or a little over seconds. Combine his with my teams, and the fact I am a Reaver, auto attacks, even on Nightmare, does not happen often making me see less, and less of my runes dealing their extra damage.
No, I know that. That's really obvious. But apparently since I needed to use basic attacks to show rune damage, people end up thinking that's the only thing I use lmao, even though I clearly stated I didn't. Like actionhero112 for example:
The fact that you're relying on basic attacks at all tells me really all I need to know.
They don't work on abilities, they don't have any meaningful damage, and each one is essentially the same. When I'm hitting for around 2-5k per dragon rage, I'm not choked I'm losing rune damage. When I'm hitting for 10-20k with Twin Fangs, I could give a rats ass about that I'm missing out on your stupid 50 damage from a superb demon rune. There is no situation where on a damage dealer I'm actually worried about what rune I have equipped. Because they don't matter.
When the game has enemies with literally tens of thousands of health, are you really arguing a drop in the pond like the difference between 30 and 50 damage when you're hitting for 700-1000 damage means ANYTHING AT ALL. That's why there's no point to choosing different runes. Because they're meaningless.
A DW rogue has 3 abilities on an 8 second cooldown.
A Reaver just uses dragon rage most of the time
An Artificer Archer uses abilities literally all of the time.
A W&S has 4 abilities on a 8 second cooldown.
Lategame you'll be lucky if I use 5 basic attacks a fight. Let alone strung together. You can kick and scream all you want, truth is, it doesn't matter if you use a lightning rune or a fire rune. The damage is minuscule anyways.
Dude, like you wanted in example and I put one. Then somehow it gets read like "all I do is basic attacks." Ridiculous. Like I don't even know what to say to that lol. At one point I even specifically state the opposite. Of course I had to do a bunch of basic attacks to show the results because that's the only way the runes trigger.
When you're faced with something that doesn't drop from all of your "I do 4865798347698432769847 damage every hit" abilities, then what? I don't consider the 340 extra damage a second from all 4 characters to be minuscule. Apparently you do which is fine. Honestly if you wanted to, you could solo the game right as companions aren't really needed either (there are several videos of people soloing the game). I guess the difference is what you think a relevant difference is.
There are some classes that you can build around to not get any benefit from runes like you pointed out, then obviously this will be weaker. But again you wanted an example.
Some of the things you're talking about doing will require lots of ability points that we don't have at the beginning of the game. Hence why my example of hardly using any abilities and still surviving a very dangerous fight was pretty cool I thought. I would've used smaller numbers from an earlier point in the game if I had a save that far back, but I showed what I wanted to anyway. By the end of the game it barely even matters what you're doing. It feels like you can do seemingly anything you want and still kill everything easily.
I never really saw that big of a difference, to be honest. If I slap a superb demon-slaying rune in the Staff of the Void, more than likely I'm going to kill the demons with my lightning attacks or spirit blade before that thing does its work.
Of course you didn't. The game is so easy anyway most of this **** doesn't even matter. When several people talk about how they have to nerf them-self and/or not over-level so the game doesn't get boring, why would you notice a difference? The point was that they can do a lot more than people realize, in the right spot. I would think that it's obvious runes are a lot better earlier in the game, but maybe I need to say that too.
Don't agree with this at all.
Very much agree with this.
You're inconsistent as well. You "very much agree" that one should choose the rune that makes the weapon look the coolest, but if runes really matters as you also maintain, one should of course use the rune that has the strongest and most appropriate effect. It's only if the damage doesn't matter that the choice should be based on aesthetics.
Spirit Blade is weird with runes. I've noticed sometimes +15 spirit damge or whatever will hit for 100 and crit for 200 sometimes. It usually sits around 40-50 tho. Maybe it is when I hit guard/barrier the rune gets amplified as well? But for the most part I just use them for style/looks. Cassandra gets demon slaying, Blackwall gets darkspawn slaying, Iron Bull gets dragon slaying etc.
I used the Cleansing runes on my mage because the bright white made me feel like Gandalf.
This. So much this 
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