45 réponses à ce sujet

[teks]

You're inconsistent as well. You "very much agree" that one should choose the rune that makes the weapon look the coolest, but if runes really matters as you also maintain, one should of course use the rune that has the strongest and most appropriate effect. It's only if the damage doesn't matter that the choice should be based on aesthetics.

He is saying the damage is significant, but he prefers to pick them based on aestetics over min/maxing. I agree on both. The damage is significant, but for most the game I'm not too concerned with my DPS, and more concerned with how cool I look. There is so much game-breaking stuff, that min/maxing everything becomes boring.

He has been consistent, and mentioned this earlier. That players need to limit themselves to enjoy the game already, so who cares.

[actionhero112]

 

Snip

 

I asked for an example in which the rune on the weapon mattered. You gave me some bs about how your weapons suck right now, and you only hit for 100-200 damage on your basic attacks. That's not what I was asking for. I am asking for an example of the pros and cons over different runes, where you can literally tell the difference significant damage between them. 

 

Hell the variance between my attacks have a bigger difference than rune damage. It's not just insignificant. It's irrelevant.

 

You don't don't run out of high damage abilities because they're all on short cooldowns that can essentially be spammed. This holds true for every decent dps class. So yes, for most of the damage you're doing in the game, runes don't even apply.

 

I'm not saying to not put runes on your weapons. I'm saying which type of rune you put on your weapon doesn't matter in the slightest, because they don't make a meaningful difference to your damage. 

 

Buddy, everyone knows that runes do damage. You were supposed to show me a scenario in which they do something crazy like 3000 damage and which certain runes provide more or less damage. You know, some that would make them worthwhile to care about. Essentially you showed me that superb runes need 20 hits to do 2.5k damage. What? And I'm supposed to be basic attacking for 7 seconds? What?

[DarkAmaranth1966]

As many have said, the few points of damage ANY rune adds are not enough to make a huge difference. Adding 10 fire damage to a staff that already does 82 fire damage will not matter. Where I use them is to add an ALTERNATE type of damage to basic attacks. A Spirit rune on a fire staff for example. It isn't much but, it's a little something when fire is doing nothing. At least the character can do a bit of damage with a basic attack that way. And yes, that's just me, it really doesn't make a significant difference unless all you are going to use is basic attacks.

 

Where it does help is on companions if you rely on the AI and do not wish to set the mana/stamina reserve to zero. They will use basic attacks more and, there it will matter so, Corrupting and cleansing offer the biggest boosts aside form dragon slaying but, that one only helps against dragons.

[Exalus]

Are runes affected by +attack %?

[GoodFella146]

 

He is saying the damage is significant, but he prefers to pick them based on aestetics over min/maxing. I agree on both. The damage is significant, but for most the game I'm not too concerned with my DPS, and more concerned with how cool I look. There is so much game-breaking stuff, that min/maxing everything becomes boring.

He has been consistent, and mentioned this earlier. That players need to limit themselves to enjoy the game already, so who cares.

 

Yeah thanks that's pretty much it.  I like the damage but the game is easy enough that it doesn't matter.  I don't even always use the best armor, I just use the cooler stuff.

 

I asked for an example in which the rune on the weapon mattered. You gave me some bs about how your weapons suck right now, and you only hit for 100-200 damage on your basic attacks. That's not what I was asking for. I am asking for an example of the pros and cons over different runes, where you can literally tell the difference significant damage between them. 

 

Hell the variance between my attacks have a bigger difference than rune damage. It's not just insignificant. It's irrelevant.

 

You don't don't run out of high damage abilities because they're all on short cooldowns that can essentially be spammed. This holds true for every decent dps class. So yes, for most of the damage you're doing in the game, runes don't even apply.

 

I'm not saying to not put runes on your weapons. I'm saying which type of rune you put on your weapon doesn't matter in the slightest, because they don't make a meaningful difference to your damage. 

 

Buddy, everyone knows that runes do damage. You were supposed to show me a scenario in which they do something crazy like 3000 damage and which certain runes provide more or less damage. You know, some that would make them worthwhile to care about. Essentially you showed me that superb runes need 20 hits to do 2.5k damage. What? And I'm supposed to be basic attacking for 7 seconds? What?

 

Please don't give me the "everybody knows" argument lol.  That's been proven wrong several times over in history.

 

My weapons suck?  They are the highest end schematics.  It's not even possible to mess that up.  So there's more b.s. you're trying to throw in.

 

10 seconds of auto attacks makes 3000 damage right there.  So if it's a long enough fight then it shows up.  You make it sound like you can just stand there, then push a button that does 490367390476093479067324097 damage every time you feel like it, all while when you're not attacking you can just stand there instead of auto-attacking.  You might even be able to do that because the game isn't that hard, but you keep saying they do almost nothing and I don't consider that to be almost nothing based on the 10 second example above.

 

Fine look at a dragon.  Unless you're cheesing it with one of those few second youtube video kills, you don't pull off 10 seconds of auto-attacks?  Ever?  If you end up taking hits/your party does something dumb, you might get into trouble somewhere.  Being 3000 damage closer helps I would say a lot, maybe you wouldn't I don't know.

 

Since you really like burst damage, how about this scenario?  Use Flask of Lightning by Sera.  She can shoot off several auto-attacks with absolutely zero management.  She could easily pull of an extra 3000 damage in a matter of seconds.  I think I remember calculating that the runes are adding anywhere from an additional 33 to 66% extra damage onto basic attacks in that example.  One of my favorite things to do is use a Static Cage or two with this and just watch the screen blow up, all safely from range.

 

I don't understand why people think they only do exactly 10, 16, 25, and 50 damage.  It's not it's more than that.

 

Are runes affected by +attack %?

 

I haven't bothered to look into the calculation, all I know is that I like the damage and it costs nothing to take it.

 

There's good and bad.  Something with resistance to your rune can only take 1 damage which is insignificant, but something vulnerable to it can take 100s a second, like what Varric was doing in my example.  But again this is only going to show up in longer fights, though I still say it's significant (unless you wanna use Flask of Lightning).

 

I don't think there's really much more to say on the matter.  If you can just stand there doing nothing, then claim to have 3 different buttons that do 489760597603976930389476049327 damage each killing anything and everything then I guess runes don't matter.  Most of the fights are smaller encounters where you can do something like that, so if your stance is that they don't matter because most fights don't last that long then that's okay I guess.  But that stuff is so easy to beat anyway that I wouldn't even care about it.  It's the bigger stuff that I care about, and that's where they show up.

[actionhero112]

-snip-

What the hell do you think this topic is about?

 

"pros and cons of different runes" 

 

Goodfella: Uh yeah no I disagree, there are pros and cons to different runes.

 

Later in thread.

 

Goodfella: No they don't matter

 

Make up your damn mind. 

 

Wait. Do you really think I was saying not to put runes on weapons? I'm not arguing against runes. I'm saying the type of rune doesn't matter. I've been saying that since the start. I'm saying the damage is so insignificant that every rune is essentially exchangeable for another superb rune. 

 

I'm saying the kind of rune doesn't matter. You are saying that they do. Here I'll try to simplify what I'm saying for you.

 

Because runes don't affect abilities, and all you do in this game is spam abilities, any damage that they provide is substantially decreased. This combined with the fact that the damage is minor to begin with, means that choosing which rune is irrelevant to your overall damage, as how you do substantial damage in this game (abilities) runes don't even affect and they do so low damage that even if they did, it wouldn't matter. 

 

Oh yeah and your damage is garbage. Sorry, but either your builds are wrong, or you don't have any idea how to craft proper stats onto t3 weapons and armor. Even my tank blackwall hits for over 300 usually on his basics. 

[teks]

How about using a logical counterargument rather then attacking goodfella for actually putting up a great argument to your claim. I have runes that can add 32 damage to my weapons for very little cost or effort. This can be a very substantial boost to DPS.

Goodfella showed 25 extra damage from runes equaled:

25% more dps for sera.

32% for viviane

60% more for varric. (daggers I assume)

 

Even with just autoattacks, we're talking a DPS boost for free to every party member's autoattacks. Yes that will make a difference.

[GoodFella146]

What the hell do you think this topic is about?

 

"pros and cons of different runes" 

 

Goodfella: Uh yeah no I disagree, there are pros and cons to different runes.

 

Later in thread.

 

Goodfella: No they don't matter

 

Make up your damn mind. 

 

Wait. Do you really think I was saying not to put runes on weapons? I'm not arguing against runes. I'm saying the type of rune doesn't matter. I've been saying that since the start. I'm saying the damage is so insignificant that every rune is essentially exchangeable for another superb rune. 

 

I'm saying the kind of rune doesn't matter. You are saying that they do. Here I'll try to simplify what I'm saying for you.

 

Because runes don't affect abilities, and all you do in this game is spam abilities, any damage that they provide is substantially decreased. This combined with the fact that the damage is minor to begin with, means that choosing which rune is irrelevant to your overall damage, as how you do substantial damage in this game (abilities) runes don't even affect and they do so low damage that even if they did, it wouldn't matter. 

 

Oh yeah and your damage is garbage. Sorry, but either your builds are wrong, or you don't have any idea how to craft proper stats onto t3 weapons and armor. Even my tank blackwall hits for over 300 usually on his basics. 

 

It's like I'm talking to a child wow.  The world is not black and white.  Sometimes things matter sometimes they don't.  You make it sound like I'm on both sides of the issue when I'm not.  I could probably pull out every example in the world and it's not going to matter to you; hence why I never wanted to elaborate in the first place.  

 

Nobody is arguing not to use runes, I'm arguing the damage matters.  Can you beat things without placing anything on your weapons?  Sure, but that's not the point nor was ever the point.  Fortunately the game is easy enough that you can do all sorts of stuff to beat the game, so from the standpoint of being able to beat the game with anything it's not significant in what you could be doing.  That doesn't mean the damage is insignificant however, and now I could care less what you say at this point so I'm done replying to your posts.  I certainly feel stupider for even trying to talk to you.

 

 

Oh yeah and the damage is fine.  You have no idea what level I was, what gear I had, or generally much else about the scenario other than the information I provided, which is what we were talking about anyway.  But nice job trying to throw in some extra dis.  We only needed to look at the rune damage, the basic attack damage could be 1 a hit or even unlisted, that was never the issue.

 

You're right though actually I wasn't using all the best gear now that I went back to look (since you seem to care about that).  I didn't have gear on Varric because I didn't use him on that playthrough, I was using a tier 2 staff on Vivienne because it looks cooler, and etc. etc.  Often times I don't even care to max that stuff because I like the looks of other stuff, so I use that.  It doesn't matter anyway because that's not what the discussion was.

 

So for the last time for the people that keep managing to misread things: 

 

-The runes do more than just 10, 16, 25, and 50 damage.  Also, damage drastically goes up when an enemy is weak to that type.

-The runes can be both significant in terms of damage, and insignificant in terms of beating the game.

[JaegerBane]

It's like I'm talking to a child wow.  The world is not black and white.  Sometimes things matter sometimes they don't.  You make it sound like I'm on both sides of the issue when I'm not.  I could probably pull out every example in the world and it's not going to matter to you; hence why I never wanted to elaborate in the first place.  

I think his point was that either they have a noticeable effect, or it they do not. If it doesn't then by definition it can't be something that matters beyond taste. It's not really about cussing or 'blatantly stupid arguments' or whatever, the situations where you can even see a difference are rare and arbitrary.

As it is, I stick with spirit runes, if for no other reason than I have to place something in the rune slot so I might as well go with something that will always apply an effect, however small... But that's all it is.

[GoodFella146]

I think his point was that either they have a noticeable effect, or it they do not. If it doesn't then by definition it can't be something that matters beyond taste. It's not really about cussing or 'blatantly stupid arguments' or whatever, the situations where you can even see a difference are rare and arbitrary.

As it is, I stick with spirit runes, if for no other reason than I have to place something in the rune slot so I might as well go with something that will always apply an effect, however small... But that's all it is.

 

Right, and I don't agree with that point.  I also still think it's pretty stupid to discount it.  Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it's not there.  I don't agree with just flat saying it's insignificant and that being the end of it.  Sometimes it is, other times it's not.  Rare doesn't translate to insignificant either.

[Exalus]

Not sure if its been mentioned but lightning runes can cause shock and shock + weaken will cause deep sleep. Theres a shocking amount of weaken procs instead templar passives, warrior crit passives and rift mage. Slap it on an archer or aoe 2hander and watch the combos fly.

[BAC PARTY CITY]

Playing a rogue here with two great Masterwork daggers and grips. Now I just need the best Superb runes to finish them off.  Suggestions?

 

I only have one dragon left to clear (highland Ravager) and I haven't ventured into the Arbor Wilds yet.

 

I'm torn between corrupting, demon slaying and dragon slaying.  You might be able to talk me into cleansing but I'm not sure.  Thoughts? suggestions? does it matter?

[UEG Donkey]

Lots of red Templar later you could go cleansing for them

[WJC3688]

 

Are runes affected by +attack %?

 

I'm pretty sure they are as I'm always seeing my runes hit for much higher than their listed damage. Apparently the rune damage can crit too O__o though I have no idea if that is an independent check from the main attack damage or simply crits along with your auto-attack.

 

Anyways, it's pretty irrelevant to debate whether or not rune damage "matters" because there is no opportunity cost to using them. Their equipment slots are specifically Rune Slots, you can't put anything else more useful in that place. So you might as well have them, and have the best of them when possible.

[komekamerat]

What is really interresting here is what creatures do cleansing and corrupting runes affect. Anyone got a list? Table?

 

K.

[JaegerBane]

Right, and I don't agree with that point.  I also still think it's pretty stupid to discount it.  Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it's not there.  I don't agree with just flat saying it's insignificant and that being the end of it.  Sometimes it is, other times it's not.  Rare doesn't translate to insignificant either.

I think the point was that if you don't notice it, then it's not likely to matter. I think everyone agreed there's an increase, it's just if that increase is so low that one has to resort to auto-attacking an enemy to death just to prove it exists then the question about which rune to use becomes academic.

[BAC PARTY CITY]

What is really interresting here is what creatures do cleansing and corrupting runes affect. Anyone got a list? Table?

 

K.

 

I would also be interested in this, if someone has this info.

 

Is there a rune that hurts dragons and something else?  I've got a Master Dragon Slaying Rune on this Iron Bull Axe thats doing 295 damage.

 

So I'm thinking about giving my rogue a corrupting and possibly a cleansing rune.  He's level 22, with two tier 3 daggers doing about 450+ damage (without runes).

 

Once I defeat the Highland Ravager (I'm so close, but after I get him to 20% health my party is just destroyed) I'm going into the Arbor Wilds. I just want the most practical runes for my inquisitor going forward?  I'm pretty sure one will be Corrupting and I'm not sure if the other should be Demon slaying or Cleansing

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Make tons of end game master works

makes tons of superb runes

 

Makes stuff that dies fast die faster 

[BAC PARTY CITY]

I went with Superb Corrupting and Cleansing on my daggers. They are 500 and 470+ damage.  Wearing a Masterwork Prowler armor. For some reasons Hissing Waste isn't giving me the Superb schematic even with the Short List perk. I have Have Helmet of the Drasca, because it looks cool. I gave the Duke Mane to Cassandra goes more with her armor. Varric can rock the Inquisitor helmet.

 

The rest of my party is pretty pimped out too at this point

[Suhiira]

Never bother with dragon slaying runes personally, only a handful in the game and killing them faster is pretty irrelevant ... they're still dead in the end.

[Chadwin]

stupid argument, it depends on how you play

 

nothing in the game matters next to flask of fire and thousand cuts, so should everybody just abandon all other methods?