27 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadohz]

I recently unlocked the Belt of Healing and decided to replace my Belt of Health (both Superb versions  ). I also have the Enhanced Life-Drain ring (5% Heal on Kill).  I gave my Barrierless Keeper a run and noticed that I was still getting roughly the same heal rate after a kill without the Belt of Healing. When I drank potions I got full healing.

 

WAI or broken?

 

Post edit comments below:

 

http://Heal bonus co...ison calculator

Copy the Google Doc sheet and mod columns A,B, and C to see how the numbers will work out for your kit(s). I changed the Permissions to "Anyone can Edit". So you can play with the figures all you want. Column E is your kit's natural base health. Column I is your kit's natural base health + Belt of Health bonus applied. This should give you a good side-by-side comparison and save you the trouble of having to re-test the kits.

 

Original SP thread where the Heal Bonus calculations were derived from.

 

TL;DR - Your mage kits may be better off using HoK and Belt of Health (in all cases) because of their low health cap. Warrior classes, on the other hand, get more health/per kill restoration if they have high Heal Bonus gear so replacing your Belt of Health with Belt of Healing is a viable option. You can use this information to extrapolate if want and how to use HB% gears or flat stat-boosting gears on your kits.

[KalGerion_Beast]

What the heal bonus %?  Even if it was 20% thats only 1% more health from your ring.  Its unlikely you can visually notice that 1% difference.  

[Shadohz]

What the heal bonus %?  Even if it was 20% thats only 1% more health from your ring.  Its unlikely you can visually notice that 1% difference.  

20% heal bonus. And correct depending on how BW intended the application you could only get a very small fraction of a health recovery with an HoK ring. I'm trying to figure if it even applies or if it does, how so.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Well its clearly not additive, if it is working.  My bets on multiplicative.

 

The only way I can think of getting a real answer is have a friend enter the fade and record your health, pre-heal and post heal values.  

[DanakV]

The only way I can think of getting a real answer is have a friend enter the fade and record your health, pre-heal and post heal values.  

 

I'm actually trying to get one of my friends to help me test it in exactly this fashion but they all seem to have better things to do on a Sunday afternoon.  Jerks.

 

I'm curious about this myself though so I'll test it when one of them logs on this evening and post my findings (unless someone else does so first).

[Shadohz]

*casts a spell of Summoning BW Employee*

 

Your spell fails miserably.

 

 

I'm actually trying to get one of my friends to help me test it in exactly this fashion but they all seem to have better things to do on a Sunday afternoon.  Jerks.

 

I'm curious about this myself though so I'll test it when one of them logs on this evening and post my findings (unless someone else does so first).

Yeah it's hard getting friends to sit still long enough to do tests. I usually end up having to do them myself. If you're on Xbox 360 shoot me a PM. I'll be on for a little while.

[Torkelight]

If you'd have 2x10% hok rings and a caliban, maybe you'll see more of a difference. But then you'd probably heal full health on each kill almost. I tried this a long time ago on Katari - to increase its survivability - but didnt notice any difference either. I just think it is too small.

[actionhero112]

Someone did the testing in combat strategy forum for what heal bonus effected.

 

link

 

It does work on Heal on Kill rings. 

 

She and her boyfriend also did testing on devour and found heal bonus does not effect it. 

[Shadohz]

Someone did the testing in combat strategy forum for what heal bonus effected.

 

link

 

It does work on Heal on Kill rings. 

 

She and her boyfriend also did testing on devour and found heal bonus does not effect it. 

Nice post Hero. Thanks. Score one for the SP BSN QA team. I was going to call hax on their tests until I realized they were using quicksaves to get their constant beginning damaged health.

[Shadohz]

Here's the math on their test results:

With ignoring DS:
1. HoK rings restore their given percentage from Total Health.

603* .10 (10% HoK Ring) = 60pts.

 

2. The recovery value of Heal Bonus is based off that those restore pts.

60pts (HoK ring restore) * .25 (25% from Hat) = 15pts; This gives you a total restore of 75pts (60+15). This is where the value of 135 (75+60) comes from when you include DS restoration.

 

3. The recovery value of multiple Heal Bonus items should yield the same result whether you total the percentage or add them independently.

. 25 (25% for Hat) + .28 (28% for Torso) = . 53 (53% Heal Bonus from all items).

Formula 1: 60pts (HoK ring restore) * .53 (above value) = 31.8pts  (rounded to 32).

Formula 2: (60pts (HoK ring restore) * .25) + (60pts *.28) = 31.8 pts

This give you a total restore of 92 (60pts + 31.8, rounded). This is where the value of 152 (92+60) comes from when you include DS restoration.

 

This breakdown should give us the formula(s) we need to verify the MP is working correctly for HoK/Heal Bonus combos.
Total Restore = (Total health * HoK%) + ((Total health * HoK%) * Bonus Heal%).

[coldflame]

What I don't get here is why is it so hard for bioware to give us a clear and helpful tooltip for once. Seriously bioware, stop being lazy

[CRCError1970]

What I don't get here is why is it so hard for bioware to give us a clear and helpful tooltip for once. Seriously bioware, stop being lazy

Because there isn't a mouse cursor on the consoles, that's why.

[Eldial3los]

It definitely works if you have a decent amount and not noticable if u don't.

On my reaver I the 10% heal on kill ring + close to 45 % Heal bonus from the heavy armor upgrades

Heal bonus is applied to the heal on kill rING

Now let's say u have the heal on kill ring of 5%
And 20 % additional healing from source, it means that u get in reality 1% extra added to the 5% ring

[Shadohz]

And 20 % additional healing from source, it means that u get in reality 1% extra added to the 5% ring

It's not the percentage added I'm really concerned with. It was the application and also how it compares to Belt of Health. I found something quite interesting with the comparison. It seems that the HoK/Heal Bonus combo is actually more effective on kits with high health. If you look at this sheet you'll notice that at or 700hp the restore benefits are much smaller. At 1000 hp the RoK/HB combo gives out the same benefits as BoH/RoK and eventually becomes higher (assuming HoK ring includes the Max Health benefits provide by BoH).

See sheet: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Um...... it isn't more effective with more health, it is exactly as effective. You are healed the exact same % you just get more because 10% of 700 is 70 and 10% of 1000 is 100.

[Shadohz]

Um...... it isn't more effective with more health, it is exactly as effective. You are healed the exact same % you just get more because 10% of 700 is 70 and 10% of 1000 is 100.

Actually I double-verified the tests to make sure. The HoK ring(s) includes the BoH benefits as your "base health". It does not exclude the benefits. See sample test below of 3 test runs I did with player MahoganyLotus73 using a Katari:

 

5% eNHANCED RING

BELT OF HEALTH EHANCED -100

 

 

BASE HEALTH - 1101

828 - 840 (gain of 12, source unknown)

92 - 477 POTION

451-506 (gain of 55, hok)

561-616 (gain of 55, hok)

 

TEST 2 NO BELT - BASE HEALTH 1001

551 -  601 (gain of 50, hok)

394-456 (gain of 62. 50 hok, 12 from source unknown)

 

TEST 3 - No belt, base health 1001

294-344 (gain of 50. hok)

 

Go look at the sheets now. I've modified the columns to reflect his results. You'll see that his HOK returns (50/no belt and 55/ with belt) falls right in line (ROW 38). Note: I set the Heal Bonus to 0. The numbers you are looking for are in red.

[Eldial3los]

Of course its going to gain you more if your base health pool is bigger, after all its percentage.

 

when you rate effectiveness in math, its with a Ratio or percentage not by the unit added. That is the incrementation/difference not effectiveness / ratio. 

 

adding 25% of 10$ = 2.50$

 

adding 25% of 100$ = 25$

 

Both have effective increase of 25% however both do not add the same amount.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Of course its going to gain you more if your base health pool is bigger, after all its percentage.

 

when you rate effectiveness in math, its with a Ratio or percentage not by the unit added. That is the incrementation/difference not effectiveness / ratio. 

 

adding 25% of 10$ = 2.50$

 

adding 25% of 100$ = 25$

 

Both have effective increase of 25% however both do not add the same amount.

What he said

[Shadohz]

Of course its going to gain you more if your base health pool is bigger, after all its percentage.

My ex-girlfriend using circular arguments:
Ex: Of course you're right, but that's not the point.

Me: What? Dafuq just happened here?

 

You just said yourself that your Reaver has a 45% Bonus Heal which means, assuming you were getting 20% from Superb Belt of Healing, you get a noticeably higher hp restore rate than Superb Belt of Health because you get 145hp/kill as opposed to 120 hp/kill (on a hypothetical build at 1000 HP, 10% Hok ring) at the cost of 200 additional hp. 

The point ladies and/or gentlemen is that players can have a more informed decision on whether to use HoK/HB or HoK/BoH on their mage/warrior kits because of:
1. The differences in their health cap.

2. The equipment the player has available to them.

3. The equipment that is available for each class type (including Armor Upgrade options).

 

TL;DR copy the spreadsheet and play with the numbers yourself. Do whatever the heck you want with the information after that. Mod columns A,B, and C to get the calculated output values. Column E is the base health (without Belt of Health, i.e. your natural health). Column I is base health + Belt of Health (from Column C).

[DrKilledbyDeath]

My ex-girlfriend using circular arguments:
Ex: Of course you're right, but that's not the point.

Me: What? Dafuq just happened here?

 

You just said yourself that your Reaver has a 45% Bonus Heal which means, assuming you were getting 20% from Superb Belt of Healing, you get a noticeably higher hp restore rate than Superb Belt of Health because you get 145hp/kill as opposed to 120 hp/kill (on a hypothetical build at 1000 HP, 10% Hok ring) at the cost of 200 additional hp. 

The point ladies and/or gentlemen is that players can have a more informed decision on whether to use HoK/HB or HoK/BoH on their mage/warrior kits because of:
1. The differences in their health cap.

2. The equipment the player has available to them.

3. The equipment that is available for each class type (including Armor Upgrade options).

 

TL;DR copy the spreadsheet and play with the numbers yourself. Do whatever the heck you want with the information after that.

Don't work like that, heal bonus is applied to effects that have a heal.

 

So 20% heal bonus belt and a 10% HoK ring will increase your heal to 12% HoK. base hp 1000, heal for 120.

 

10% HoK with 200hp belt, 1000 base hp for a total of 1200 will heal you for 120hp for kill.

 

It should be the exact same, but the +hp belt gives you a higher base, the heal bonus will work with potions.

 

The spreadsheet is very redundant, it's just basic math listed over and over. It's more confusing if anything. You just need a formula - 1200 (total health) x 0.10 (% of heal) = 120 (HP healed)

[Shadohz]

My previous comment towards Eldial3los was snarky. I'm man enough to apologize for line-crossing. 

Don't work like that, heal bonus is applied to effects that have a heal.

Prove me wrong. Follow another player around who has HoK rings, HB items and Belt of Health. Do tests with belt of health, without belt of health, with HB items and without HB items. Notate the base health on each test and the amount of health restored after a kill. Report your results.

 

If I'm wrong then you're also saying that people who did it on SP are wrong as well. That should be interesting.

 

Edit: I even did you a solid by renaming Columns H and J to "Total HP Restore/per kill" since it was too "confusing". Btw you were comparing the vertex which would of course yield similar results. Do the tests with someone that has high HB% and let's see.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

My previous comment towards Eldial3los was snarky. I'm man enough to apologize for line-crossing. 

Prove me wrong. Follow another player around who has HoK rings, HB items and Belt of Health. Do tests with belt of health, without belt of health, with HB items and without HB items. Notate the base health on each test and the amount of health restored after a kill. Report your results.

 

If I'm wrong then you're also saying that people who did it on SP are wrong as well. That should be interesting.

I think we both just got lost along the way, the healing bonus does apply the way I said, as an increase to the percentage of what you will heal on kill. Your spreadsheet does the math that way so you obviously know that too. I'll be honest I didn't really bother to look at much of your spreadsheet past 700-800 hp base as most classes that need HoK won't ever have that much (without the belt/neck) or without a whole hell of a lot of promoting. In order for heal % to be worth anything you need 2 blue or better HoK rings, a purple belt and multiple armor/weapon upgrades. To maybe get an extra 10-20hp per kill vs losing every other slot and stat you need to sacrifice for heal bonus, it makes it pretty useless, and if you don't have a bonus close to 50% or more, even more useless.

 

Use the hp belt.

[Trickshaw]

Of course +Heal% is multiplicative.

I could not fathom the ineptitude of the hypothetical dev that would say having +Heal% as an additive factor would be a good thing. As far as if it's working or not it could easily be tested by someone with two superb HoKs and a superb +Heal% belt. Log into routine. Get close to death.

If you heal to full in 4 kills, it's working.

If you heal to full in 5 kills, it's not.

Simple.

[Eldial3los]

My previous comment towards Eldial3los was snarky. I'm man enough to apologize for line-crossing. 

Prove me wrong. Follow another player around who has HoK rings, HB items and Belt of Health. Do tests with belt of health, without belt of health, with HB items and without HB items. Notate the base health on each test and the amount of health restored after a kill. Report your results.

 

If I'm wrong then you're also saying that people who did it on SP are wrong as well. That should be interesting.

 

Edit: I even did you a solid by renaming Columns H and J to "Total HP Restore/per kill" since it was too "confusing". Btw you were comparing the vertex which would of course yield similar results. Do the tests with someone that has high HB% and let's see.

 

No apologies needed it did not sound snarky at all  .

 

I don't think he is saying you are wrong

 

The table represent it quite right  except he said it looks menacing (over complicating things) when in reality its s simple calculation and a universal formula might be easier to understand.  Obviously this is subjective to each person, some like tables while some don't need a table.

[Shadohz]

Of course +Heal% is multiplicative.

"We are immune to your facts and logic." - Joker, legendary pilot SSV Normandy.

 

 

To maybe get an extra 10-20hp per kill vs losing every other slot and stat you need to sacrifice for heal bonus, it makes it pretty useless, and if you don't have a bonus close to 50% or more, even more useless.  Use the hp belt.

No, no, no. It's too late to agree. You issued a challenge and in accordance to BSN bylaws you must prove your point followed by an "I told you so" dance or ThunderDome. Pick your weapon, bud. How you want it? Swords or magic. None of that stealth skill stuff. 

 

Jk. But yes that what I was surmising from the HP restore rates is that "better" for mages to use Belt, since they have low health and no access to HB items (that I could find) whereas the warriors may have an option to use HB items instead of BoH because of their natural high health and access to much higher HB items.

 

 

The table represent it quite right  except he said it looks menacing (over complicating things) when in reality its s simple calculation and a universal formula might be easier to understand.

Right. That's why I was a bit confused as why we appeared to be agreeing on the same thing, but differently. I re-edited the column labels to show the incremental differences so that may have triggered the "oooooooooh I see what your saying now" moment.