166 réponses à ce sujet

[Trueprophet]

This is a terrific thread.  I'm assuming your testing was in single player, yes?  Is there any reason to think it's not applicable to MP as well?  The details you have on combos, in particular, have made me think a bit more about my MP builds.

[aznricepuff]

Yes, all testing was done in SP.

 

At this point I haven't even once clicked the multiplayer option in the main menu much less played any of it so I have no clue what multiplayer is like or how combat works there.

 

From what I've heard and read here and there, though, it seems that MP has its own versions of certain SP abilities and abilities that aren't available in SP at all, so I definitely wouldn't try to apply any of my ability-specific testing to MP (unless your experience tells you that the MP version works similarly to SP).

 

On the other hand I would assume that things like damage calculation and basic mechanics are the same in SP and MP (but again I have no data to back this up).

 

As for combos, I would assume that falls under "basic mechanics" so the details should be the same in MP. But thinking about it more, it's not that unlikely that Bioware might have tweaked some of the numbers for balance purposes.

[Drasca]

 

Is there any reason to think it's not applicable to MP as well?

 

Most of the basic mechanics are the same, but some values will differ. For example, Block and Slash will consume 50 stamina upon blocking instead of the 20 listed above, and Blizzard will consume more mana per tick.

 

So everything generally works as listed above, just don't get caught up with the actual numbers as they may differ. I do have some data, but not extensive enough to confirm the damage formula exactly.

 

There are also things not easily confirmed by the mechanics, like how the wrath of heaven, spell purge combo will do 5-7k AoE with Caliban, and 14k AoE to spirit vulnerable enemies. 5% for extra target, 10 targets... Multiplicative Masterwork bonus on Caliban? Attack power? Math involved, and not easy to confirm all the factors. Other factors (like extra damage vs demons buff?).

 

Not specific to this thread, but the relative utility value of the numbers listed is different given SP has far fewer enemies in most encounters, and far higher enemy hp, but less relative damage while MP has far more enemies with less hp and do more relative damage to the player. The combo interations and synergies are greater too. Despite having fewer active abilities in general, having four players control them greatly increases the value of synergistic effects.

 

Due to how many different effects are in play, it is more difficult to do testing without getting more people involved, and greatly increases time to confirm mechanics.

[Rynas]

Minor note about armor - it affects physical damage, but not if the physical damage comes from a rune.  See first line below:
 

if type == 1 and damage > 0 and IsRune == false then
    ...
    armorAdjustedDamage = damage - effectiveArmor
    if critical then
        damage = math.max(2, armorAdjustedDamage) + barrierCompensateValue
    else
        damage = math.max(1, armorAdjustedDamage) + barrierCompensateValue
    end
    print("damage (after effectiveArmor) = " .. damage)
end

Runes that don't specify a damage type (Cleansing/Corrupting/Demonslaying/etc.) inherit the damage type of the base weapon, so they inflict armor-ignoring physical damage when they're placed in a non-staff.

[aznricepuff]

Yeah, I noticed that in the script. I was going to make a mention of it in a section on runes but I'm currently still doing testing on certain aspects of how rune damage is handled.

[Darth Meraj]

Can anyone tell me how to check my game version? I am using PC version. I'm certain it's up to date but I'd like to have visual confirmation of the version number I am running. There were no options on the main menu or any of the sub menus. No way of checking through Origins or game files from what I could tell at least.

[aznricepuff]

If you don't have Origin in offline mode, then you're certainly running the latest version (1.03 + hotfix). Origin won't even let you start the game if you are not up to date.

 

Alternatively go to the DAI main installation directory (default is C:\Program Files (x86)\Origin Games\Dragon Age Inquisition\) and open the file version.json with notepad or any text editor. The only thing in the file should be:

{"sku":"origin","build":"866148"}

If the number after "build" is the same as the one above, you are up to date.

[Darth Meraj]

If you don't have Origin in offline mode, then you're certainly running the latest version (1.03 + hotfix). Origin won't even let you start the game if you are not up to date.

 

Alternatively go to the DAI main installation directory (default is C:\Program Files (x86)\Origin Games\Dragon Age Inquisition\) and open the file version.json with notepad or any text editor. The only thing in the file should be:

{"sku":"origin","build":"866148"}

If the number after "build" is the same as the one above, you are up to date.

 

Thanks. My file does say 866148. The main reason I'm asking is because these mechanics threads are all reffering to the bugs still existing in v1.03. It's also a little confusing because Bioware is calling the latest version Patch 4 instead of 3. Which I guess they considered the hotfix to be 3? Or was the patch 3 and then the hotfix turned it into a 4? Either way they merged something somewhere.

 

 

(Edit: This post was previously titled: “Dragon Age: Inquisition PC Patch 3 Notes.” The title and blog have been updated to reflect the release on consoles. The new across the board numbering is reflective of a previous hotfix that was applied on PC.)

 

In the current Patch 4 for Dragon Age: Inquisition, our primary focus was on fixing bugs, particularly ones that blocked progression or hampered the player experience.

 

 

Also, what's with Bioware fixing crap like:

 

 

Based on feedback from our players, we tweaked the banter system to be less random in order to prevent extra-long periods of silence

 

Instead of important game breaking mechanics that don't function like bleed? I guess it's not too surprising considering most players I've come across don't even know these things are broken. Only those who bothered to come to this forum and read these mechanic testing threads know.

[aznricepuff]

There have been 5 patches for PC. The day-one patch, patch 1.2, the hotfix for 1.2, 1.3, and the hotfix for 1.3.

 

I guess at some point bioware decided to call the hotfix for 1.3 as Patch 4 to bring the version numbers in line with console patch numbering.

 

And just to be clear, for the purposes of the guide:

 

v1.02 = Patch 2 for PC (Dec. 9, 2014) + the hotfix (Dec. 11, 2014)

v1.03 = Patch 3 for PC (Jan. 21, 2015) + the hotfix, which Bioware is now calling Patch 4 (Jan. 26, 2015)

[Darth Meraj]

Ok that seems kind of fair. At least you've documented here what the version numbers represent. Thanks for that.

[Darth Meraj]

Oi mamita. Is there no way to delete posts?

[rayzorium]

Cheap Shot

• Applies a 50% sunder that does not stack with itself.

 

This doesn't appear to be correct. From my testing on a 72 armor target (Highland Ravager):

 

1 crit = 57 armor

2 crits = 46 armor

3 crits = 36 armor

4 crits = 29 armor

5 crits = 23 armor

13 crits = 3 armor

14 crits = 3 armor

20? crits = 0 armor

 

It starts getting kind of hard to keep track but it's definitely 20% and does stack with itself. The display number is always rounded down, but the game keeps track of the "true value." It's unclear which is used for damage calculation, but it barely matters as the difference will be, at most, 1. I was able to hit 0 armor, but couldn't keep a precise count of how many crits it was. Given the other things I learned, 20 would be the expected number.

[WJC3688]

Yea I noticed Varric knocking people down to 1 armor pretty easily on my game.

 

A note on Disruption Field, this ability apparently nullifies projectiles--allied or enemy. If you toss elemental mines into it for example they get stuck in mid-air and never go off. Revenants can't pull you out of it, the ghostly hand gets stuck in mid air and eventually disappears. Etc. Also afaik nothing is immune to the time-slow effect, which for all intents and purposes is a paralyze that doesn't prime combos. It even worked on Samson. The only things immune that I can see are (as the description says) enemies that are too big to fit inside it. You can pre-emptively cast it on top of enemies that spawning from rifts and the poor bastards get stuck in the beginning of their spawn animations.

 

Regarding fade cloak it makes you invulnerable to all enemy effects, but also seems to make you immune to beneficial allied effects. Most notably if barrier is cast on you while fade cloak is active you will not gain the barrier and the spell will be wasted. Casting fade cloak also appears to cause you to instantly recover from knockdown, just like payback strike or upgraded combat roll.

[aznricepuff]

I looked over my data for Cheap Shot, and it is indeed consistent with stacking, so I don't know why I wrote in my notes that it did not stack - maybe I had it mixed up with another ability.

 

Anyway, it's interesting that from your testing it looks like the armor reduction stacks multiplicatively - that's pretty unexpected. I would have assumed it to stack additively in the same vein as Shieldbreaker in the Warrior 2H tree. I'll be taking a closer look at both of those passives.

[Rynas]

[Edit] Nevermind, I see you have this in the "General Mechanics" section instead of the "Barrier" section

[TheThirdRace]

Hidden Blades
•[Bug? - v1.02] Interacts strangely with Knife in the Shadows. Sometimes all strikes except the last are guaranteed critical hits when casting from stealth. Other times only the first strike is a guaranteed critical.

Not a bug, it's linked to stealth mechanic. When you're in stealth and something breaks it (like Hidden Blades), you still benefit for 1 or 2 seconds of Knife in the Shadows.

If you trigger Hidden Blades at long range, by the time the knife gets to it's target you already waste 1 or 2 seconds which means only the first hit will benefit from Knife in the Shadows.

On the other hand, if you trigger Hidden Blades at point blank range, you get to pull off all those hits under the 1 or 2 seconds after breaking stealth, which means Knife in the Shadows applies to all hits.

Morale of the story, use Hidden Blades at point blank range, it's way more efficient that way...

[OrionAnderson]

This thread is amazing. I have a few questions leftover, though.

 

1: With Dragon Rage, I don't see animation times listed. Without those, I can't tell what the effective DPS of dragon rage is. 

 

2: It would be helpful if you added base health by character class, perhaps along with a mention of the +1/2 level bonus to Strength/Dex/Magic

 

3: Do we know the value of the type_bonus unlocked by creature research? Do we know the difficulty bonus to NPC damage? 

 

4: Do sustained skills disable passive resource regeneration? I seem to run out of stamina much faster with block & slash or ring of pain than I would expect.

 

5: Does "weakness" reduce base weapon damage, or final damage?

 

6: How do dagger autoattacks work if you equip one standard and one dual-blade dagger?

 

6: Shield tree questions. Do turn the bolt and turn the blade stack additively or multiplicatively with ranged defense? (Or for turn the blade, ranged, melee, and magic defense) What is the movement penalty for Shield Wall? Does the aoe armor bonus have the bug where it only adds to rear armor? Does payback strike work if you've only taken barrier or guard damage? What does the stagger reduction passive do? Does shield bash get a higher "damage bonus" against guard (the one that adds to "attack"), increased ability multiplier, or increased guard multiplier (stacking with the Strength stat)?

 

7: 2-handed questions, battlemaster, and vanguard: What does earthshaking strike actually do? I heard there were bugs. Does hamstring reduce attack speed? Does cutting words increase damage against enemies taunted by other warriors (and tempests)?

 

8: Subterfuge questions. Does the threat reduction passive make you lose all accumulated threat when you flank, or just not gain any threat from flank attacks? What does the 5% dodge chance apply to? 

 

9: Fire questions. What happens when multiple sources of burning are applied? Does the most recent one overwrite the others? Does the highest-damage one remain? Do they run their durations in parallel? 

 

10: Poison questions. Do tears of the dead, the poison rogue skill, and the poison masterwork weapons all block each other?

 

11: What is the effective dps of a lightning staff, when you adjust for the shock effect?

 

12: Does elemental barrage reduce enemy resistance below 0? It doesn't seem to be doing as much damage as I'd hoped.

 

13: Sunder questions. Do multiple sunders stack additively or multiplicatively? Also, throwing blades says that the first hit will not benefit from the sunder effect. Does that mean that all other sunder skills do benefit from their own sunder effects?

 

14: Weapon passive questions. Do any of the weapon passives stop working if you use the wrong weapons? I know that most of them continue working, but the tooltips imply that pincushion, unforgiving chain, and turn the bolt might not.

[aznricepuff]

I have a few questions leftover, though.

 

I'll try to answer these as best I can.

 

1. I'll look into the animation times. Effective DPS with Dragon Rage is difficult to interpret because of the damage bonus from missing health - the DPS would depend on the character's %health at the time of each strike and can vary greatly.
2. I'll try fitting this info in when I get a chance.
3. Some previous data I have suggest that it's 0.5 (50%). But that was with one enemy type, so this is not confirmed.
4. As far as I know they do not.
5. Don't know. I'll look into this.
6. If you have a dual blade dagger equipped in either hand, you use the dual-blade dagger autoattack sequence. Answers to your second #6 below:
   1. Not sure about Turn the Bolt/Turn the Blade.
   2. There's also not really a good way to test movement penalty for Shield Wall (I can think of some ways, but they would not be very precise).
   3. Payback Strike works for any damage, whether to health, barrier, or guard. It also works if you block damage that you would have taken (e.g. with Shield Wall).
   4. Not sure what the stagger reduction passive actually does. I assume it prevents you from being staggered/knocked down from certain attacks (though it obviously does not work for every attack that staggers/knocks you down).
   5. Don't know about which bonus gets applied for the damage bonus vs. guard. I will look into it.
7. I haven't yet tested Earthshaking Strike at all, so I haven't got anything there. Also not sure about hamstring and cutting words.
8. Not sure, and it's pretty much impossible to test.
9. The most recent burning effect overwrites any existing burning effect on the target.
10. Not sure.
11. 185% weapon damage per second. This is assuming that the enemy's base electricity resistance is 0%, and that all projectiles take roughly the same amount of time to travel to the target (i.e. the target is not running toward you or away from you).
12. Yes it does.
13. The shieldbreaker passive seems to stack its sunder additively. Rayzorium's post above would seem to indicate cheap shot stacks its sunder multiplicatively, but I haven't done the testing to confirm. And as far as I know, a hit that procs sunder typically does not benefit from its own sunder.
14. I know pincushion/turn the bolt work even if you use daggers/2H weapons. Not sure about unforgiving chain.

[aznricepuff]

Just did some more testing after Patch 5 dropped, and I wanted to make some additions and corrections to my answers above:

 

4. My previous answer was wrong. Sustained abilities do turn off passive stamina/mana regen. However the descriptions of almost every sustained ability incorrectly state how fast they drain stamina/mana.

 

The second 6. Turn the Bolt/Blade effectively add their bonuses as a flat value to the appropriate defense stats. So it's additive stacking.

 

13. Looks like all sunders stack multiplicatively.

 

14. It seems that all passives are active no matter what weapon type you have equipped, even if the descriptions imply otherwise. May or may not be a bug.

[Zeratulr]

Dexterity

• Increases attack_bonus by 0.5% (rogues only)

My Inquisitor rogue currently has 49 Dexterily and 19% attack. Shouldn't it be at least 24%?

 

("Ловкость" is Dexterity, "Атака" is "Attack")

[Exalus]

Your first 10 stat points (base points) don't count towards bonuses.

So its really 39.

[Zeratulr]

Your first 10 stat points (base points) don't count towards bonuses.

So its really 39.

Do the first 10 stat points count towards anything?

[WJC3688]

A note on Unbowed. This ability causes you to instantly recover to a standing position if used while knocked down.

[WillieStyle]

Do the first 10 stat points count towards anything?

 

 

Based on previous Bioware games (and Dungeons and Dragons), if any of your stats ever drop below 10, you will likely incur a penalty rather than a bonus. However, I don't think there are any stat-drain effects in Inquisition.

[aznricepuff]

Large-ish update after doing some testing post-patch 5.

 

They indeed fix the front armor bug per the patch notes. However most of the abilities that provide armor bonuses now apply slightly different bonuses to front and back armor for some reason.

 

Some ninja-fixes that weren't mentioned in the patch notes:

 

They fixed Untouchable Defense to do what the description says it does.

 

They managed to fix one bug affecting Horn of Valor (the one where it applied +50% armor instead of +15%). However they also introduced a new bug with the description for the upgrade. It says it now increases the damage bonus by 20%, but the actual increase is still 35% (i.e. what it has always been) - so either they meant to nerf it but forgot...or someone changed the description when they weren't supposed to. Oh, and the upgrade also increases the armor bonus to +50%, but this is not mentioned in the description either.

 

They got rid of the cooldown reduction from Winter Stillness, but left the cooldown reduction from Combat Clarity alone (making KEs relatively even more OP now).