1018 réponses à ce sujet

[MiceAndDogs]

So I've seen a lot of people give flack to Thom Rainier because of what he did to that one family. I don't understand this at all! I know I'll get hate for this, but I see Blackwall as one of the most heroic companions in the game. He killed children, I know. But ever since Blackwall died, he's turned over a new leaf. He's tried to help people, aided those who couldn't defend themselves, and taken blows so others didn't have to. Yeah he kept his true identity and lied to the Inquisition's face, but it was because he was ashamed of what he was. He tried to bury the old Thom Rainier so that he could help people. And when a man was to be hanged so that he could escape freely, Thom intervened with the execution and revealed his true identity, knowing he would be punished greatly, and lose all of the one's who thought highly of him. He was willing to die and lose his reputation just to save one man's life. This is a different Thom than the one from years ago. The old Thom is dead, and a new one has risen to save the people. And each time one of my more stern characters leaves him to rot or exiles him, I'm always tempted to reload a save, but I convince myself to keep true to the current character. In my books, Thom Rainier is worth giving another shot.

[robertmarilyn]

I always have Rainier stay with the Inquisition ("I own you") so I've never even done much to him at all for what he did in the past but I do resent how hypocritical he can be. I just did Crestwood and was at the mayor's house with him in my party when we saw the

Spoiler

mayor's confession

and he's the one who threw the biggest hissy fit about the situation. 

[Korva]

Pretty much any Bioware game has featured companions who have done a lot worse than Rainier/Blackwall ... and they have often been among the more popular characters. Some of these "evil" characters were even part-time comic relief. Partly, I suppose, because many people think it's "kewl" to do what you want, take what you want, kill whom you want, and screw what anyone else thinks. What is less "kewl", of course, is when a party member lies to or otherwise turns on the player, because then the player is the "real" victim, and we can't have that.

 

Seriously, though, I would never call Rainier/Blackwall a hero, but I can't damn him either because the difference between him and the abovementioned characters are years of flawed but sincere remorse and attempted atonement. If my Inquisitor can take in the templars/mages and the Grey Wardens, forgive a guilt-ridden Warden mage in Andraste's name, and otherwise rule with second chances in mind, she can extend the same to Rainier/Blackwall. It's a harsh but fitting mercy to give him freedom, because that way his resolve is tested by having to live without protective lies, with nothing to bind him save his own conscience.

 

Also, Cole sincerely believes Rainer has changed and become Blackwall, and I trust my little spirit buddy's insight. My Inquisitor doesn't forgive or extend trust again as readily, but she does give him a chance.

[PorcelynDoll]

I like him. I was shocked at first but he really is no different then Zevran, Sten or Anders in comparison to killing people. I am also not 100% sure if he just gave the orders or if he participated in killing the family.

[Colonelkillabee]

I like him. I was shocked at first but he really is no different then Zevran, Sten or Anders in comparison to killing people. I am also not 100% sure if he just gave the orders or if he participated in killing the family.

Indeed. Only difference is you didn't find out about him until later. And some people that romanced him can't stop thinking about themselves for five minutes to see things from his perspective.

[PorcelynDoll]

Indeed. Only difference is you didn't find out about him until later. And some people that romanced him can't stop thinking about themselves for five minutes to see things from his perspective.

Plus he's part of the Beard Squad   

[Colonelkillabee]

Plus he's part of the Beard Squad 

YESSS Can't forget that.

 

[Hellion Rex]

Hero, my ass. He killed children. There is no recompense for that, in my eyes. He lied to us, to everyone, and couldn't even have the decency to tell us the truth until we ran him down in Val Royeaux where he was about to die.

[Augustei]

I don't dislike him because he is a murderer or anything, I dislike him because he held on to the lie for so long and suggested I make use of the Grey Warden treaties to conscript people. WTF Blackwall, have you any idea the potential political repercussions my fledging Inquisition could have faced if you'd be discovered earlier?! You could have done some serious damage to us you fool! Lucky by the time you decided to come out and confess (After most of your men had been executed for your orders anyway) I'd already garnered a deal of influence.
Oh and then all the constant talks about what paragons of virtue the wardens are, yeah okay buddy.. You sound like Alistair, no idea about the Order you're apparently part of. Got sick of that pretty quick
And then when I pull him out of prison for judgement he starts going on about how corrupt me and mine are, Shut your face Blackwall before I decide to add torture into the mix.
Gave him to the Wardens, next game i'm keeping up the lie and making him my b!tch though.

[RobRam10]

He killed some Orlesian fops big deal.

[BountyhunterGER]

I know what you mean.

People often tend to jugde someone because of one or many things he did in the past - completely ingnoring the fact that they might have changed (or that they could have been influenced the by something did - when someone says anders another one will call him simply a crazy terrorist completly ignoring that he wanted (and did with the free clinic) to help people and lost slowly control over the demon he was possessed by ).

 

The Rainier who did those crimes died a long time before you meet him in Inquisition.

And I can't judge him because he lied to me - what should he have said? "Hello I am Blackwall but my real name is Thom Rainier and I did terrible things like... I hope you don't judge me because of this - please don't call the guards!" (and later " guess what? I lied to you - everything I told you was a lie.. please don't call the guards!")

[Augustei]

"Hi I'm Thom Reiner, but do you mind if I cower behind the identity of the dead warden Blackwall while most of my men are executed for the orders I gave them? Dw I'll rock up and save one after most of them have been killed anyway, and damage your Inquisitions reputation in the process ;)"

[Kulyok]

Sometimes when I look at the guy, I really feel sorry for his character concept. It's like the entire Bioware team hated him.

 

"Let's make another child-killer like Sten, only he'll be killing folks for money, not because he's delirious or desperate."

"And he's going to lie to the team, like, the whole time."

"Better yet, let's make him pretend to be a Grey Warden! People like the Warden from Origins, they'll be outraged!"

"Great idea! Oh, and no good looks here. Muzhik hair, long beard, stuff like that. Make sure it clips."

"And you can't go wrong with a peasant's padded jacket! And the voice - just listen to his voice!"

"Oooh, I love it! You know what? We should make him a romance option, too, but make it as humiliating and painful for her as possible."

"I have an idea! Let him abandon her after sex! Naked! In an open barn!"

"Sure! And when he comes back, he will forcefully kiss her in a hall full of people, or the romance is over!"

"And after all that, she'll still be forced to call him Blackwall."

"Our job here is done."

 

Sigh. And that guy was supposed to be our core romance interest. Still makes me laugh hysterically.

[Fiery Phoenix]

He always stays with the Inquisition, but I wouldn't call him a 'hero'.

[Super Drone]

"Doing bad things is fine unless you do them to me. Then it's unforgivable. "

 

Murder a farmhouse of people in a delerious rage?  Fine.

 

Be an unremorseful Assassin?  dreamy.

 

Blow up a Church full of innocents?  you'll have fan-girls/boys defending your actions years later

 

 

 

But don't you dare lie to Inquisitor Mary-Sue and then confess when you realize you've gone way too far and need to be honest. 

 

 

[CuriousArtemis]

I like him. I was shocked at first but he really is no different then Zevran, Sten or Anders in comparison to killing people. I am also not 100% sure if he just gave the orders or if he participated in killing the family.

And Sten is way worse, going on a murderous rampage and slaughtering a village for no reason!

I like that Blackwall sought redemption and self-sacrifice. And think of how the pressure of his false identity must have weighed on him for so many years. Could've been such a great character, were he not in a game that kinda sucks at developing characters lol

[Augustei]

No, all those other peoples sins were in the past. Reiners additional crimes were in the present. He passed himself as A Grey Warden in my ranks and gave me the documents to conscript on his behalf into our ranks, Thus did we conscript illegally and this could potentially be found out and be severely damaging to us. That the plot has this happen after we've garnered a deal of influence is irrelevent, he joined us in our infancy when this could have concluded in a much worse result.
And while he was hiding in our ranks as A Grey Warden, his men were still being executed for the orders he gave them and he knew it. They weren't already dead, his crime was still occouring. He could have turned himself in sooner but he waited until many of them had already been executed.

He didn't try to make up for it at all until he pledges himself to our service after we break him out of prison and pardon him, before that when he initially joins us he was just a coward having us endanger our cause and hiding behind a false name while his men were still dying for his crimes and he was doing nothing to stop it.

Also funny how you mock those "Orlesian pusses". The very people who made up the majority of your forces =P

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 27 janvier 2015 - 05:41 .

[Colonelkillabee]

No, all those other peoples sins were in the past. Reiners additional crimes were in the present. He passed himself as A Grey Warden in my ranks and gave me the documents to conscript on his behalf into our ranks, Thus did we conscript illegally and this could potentially be found out and be severely damaging to us. That the plot has this happen after we've garnered a deal of influence is irrelevent, he joined us in our infancy when this could have concluded in a much worse result.
And while he was hiding in our ranks as A Grey Warden, his men were still being executed for the orders he gave them and he knew it. They weren't already dead, his crime was still occouring. He could have turned himself in sooner but he waited until many of them had already been executed.
 

 

My response is unchanged to be honest. I'd just copy and paste, really. Boo hoo.

[Colonelkillabee]

Also funny how you mock those "Orlesian pusses". The very people who made up the majority of your forces =P

Beggars can't be choosers Was also referring to the nobles.

[Colonelkillabee]

=

He didn't try to make up for it at all until he pledges himself to our service after we break him out of prison and pardon him, before that when he initially joins us he was just a coward having us endanger our cause and hiding behind a false name while his men were still dying for his crimes and he was doing nothing to stop it.

Had to respond to this, sorry for the post build up. Missed the edit.

 

This is sooo biased and completely wrong. Do you honestly think he was out helping farmers fight bandits n' ****, and that he joined our cause for kicks and giggles? Say what now? Get the hell outta here, dude, you know better than that.

[Augustei]

My response is unchanged to be honest. I'd just copy and paste, really. Boo hoo.

Your response is that his sins were in the past, it was wrong. But hey if you wan't to repeat your false claims I can't stop you =P

[Augustei]

Had to respond to this, sorry for the post build up. Missed the edit.

 

This is sooo biased and completely wrong. Do you honestly think he was out helping farmers fight bandits n' ****, and that he joined our cause for kicks and giggles? Say what now? Get the hell outta here, dude, you know better than that.

Considering his actions in having us use the treaties despite his falsehood His intentions weren't good for our sake, so he either had bad intentions, or he had good ones and is simply a massive idiot.
And if he was trying to make up for his past mistakes maybe he shouldn't have continued to let his men die for his crimes

[Colonelkillabee]

Your response is that his sins were in the past, it was wrong. But hey if you wan't to repeat your false claims I can't stop you =P

I was talking about the actual serious crimes, not your sensitive soul, lol I honestly don't care that he lied about being a grey warden, not when he's helping to save the world, and they're serving to end it.

 

And like I said, we needed the conscriptions, we deserved them. I would have used them knowing he was a fake warden anyway. So yes, I repeat my "false" claims

[Colonelkillabee]

Considering his actions in having us use the treaties despite his falsehood His intentions weren't good for our sake, so he either had bad intentions, or he had good ones and is simply a massive idiot.
And if he was trying to make up for his past mistakes maybe he shouldn't have continued to let his men die for his crimes

Ever consider that he agrees with me and knew we could use them? Just because he knew it was illegal doesn't mean his intentions weren't good ones. And I don't think that makes him an idiot. If anything, it was smart to pull the wool over people's eyes to get what we needed now to save the world. They could ****** about it later. AFTER we succeed.

 

And he couldn't make up for his crimes if he was dead.

[Augustei]

I was talking about the actual serious crimes, not your sensitive soul, lol I honestly don't care that he lied about being a grey warden, not when he's helping to save the world, and they're serving to end it.

 

And like I said, we needed the conscriptions, we deserved them. I would have used them knowing he was a fake warden anyway. So yes, I repeat my "false" claims

Do you realise how damaging that would be to the Inquisition if he was found out to be a fake before we built up that great deal of political leverage?
But hey maybe you don't give a **** about the Inquisition. But as the Inquisitor, my character doesn't appreciate severely hurting his own cause