Most of my charcters aren't into that short of thing and I shouldn't have to change that to fit someone sense of a healthy relationship.
Um if you don't find it a healthy relationship then don't. I found my Bullmance just fine for a BioWare romance. *shrugs* But if you really feel your character wouldn't fit a bullmance don't do it.
We're talking about whether you should apologize for having used the Grey Warden treaties or not. Something I definitely don't have time for. Or coddling Arl Teagan, either, when he comes asking for reparations from the mage-templar war. It's not like there's a giant hole in the sky or anything.And they repay that debt by giving you forces for the Arbor wilds.
And that's fair. Just like some people don't mind leaving Blackwall to finally swing for his crimes because they don't have time to be wasting resources and time.
We're talking about whether you should apologize for having used the Grey Warden treaties or not. Something I definitely don't have time for. Or coddling Arl Teagan, either, when he comes asking for reparations from the mage-templar war. It's not like there's a giant hole in the sky or anything.
If you don't have time for coddling others don't have time for Blackwall's BS so I'm not sure what's the difference?
We already established that you don't care about using illegally conscription. Which is fine that's why Cullen's choice is there for people. Others do. Which is why Josephine's choice is there for people.
What? I'm gonna need a source for Bull, cause I think that's flat out wrong.
???
It's true. The core romances were Blackwall, Josephine, Bull, Cassandra, Sera and Dorian. Solas and Cullen were the extras.
I won't but I am glad they gave me more options than borewall and iron bull. Kind of like me3 were basicly it was one Character or you had to be a lesbian.Um if you don't find it a healthy relationship then don't. I found my Bullmance just fine for a BioWare romance. *shrugs* But if you really feel your character wouldn't fit a bullmance don't do it.
???
It's true. The core romances were Blackwall, Josephine, Bull, Cassandra, Sera and Dorian. Solas and Cullen were the extras.
I misread. I thought she was asserting that Bull was intended to be a female only romance.
lol happens to everyoneI misread. I thought she was asserting that Bull was intended to be a female only romance.
I won't but I am glad they gave me more options than borewall and iron bull. Kind of like me3 were basicly it was one Character or you had to be a lesbian.
Well no. ME3 you had no choices other than one unless you were importing.
DAI simply would've had choices I disliked 
(Well choice actually I still would've fallen in love with the Bull 
)
Actually it would've been like DAO in that aspect.
I misread. I thought she was asserting that Bull was intended to be a female only romance.
Ooooh. XD
Well that's just it you dont think Anders deserves to be castrated for the thousands of innocents because he *thinks* he is doing something right. Not even a small remorse or anything because he was not getting paid for it. While you would obliterate a repentant man who's been lied to about his target and whos been doing nothing but good things for atonement. This is not an apology for what he has done by the way. Just a take on my own views.
We will just have to agree to disagree because I don't believe that the path paved with innocent bodies to a better world ever works.
Yep, I think we'll just have to disagree on this one. 
I don't believe the path to a better world can always be achieved by the "right" actions.
I will point out I never said Anders doesn't deserve punishment for what he did. It was wrong without a doubt. But I'd rather live in a world post mage-templar war than pre mage-templar war, and this probably factors into my opinions on the matter.
@abyss: Ah, we seem to be somewhat in accord then. My personal opinion is that some people seem to equate "justice" with rigidly following a specific legal code and that this is always - without exception - the same as doing the right thing, but that is just not the case as far as I'm concerned. Vis-vis my earlier post where I pointed out that Orlesian society and its laws are, effectively, corrupt because their society is okay with the wanton killing of elves (it is approved and legal), that doesn't make this abhorrent practice ethical or right just because it's allowed under Orlesian law.
When it comes to judging individuals in the game, there should be room for things like mercy, compassion, and understanding, or what's the point? To kill and keep killing just because someone says the law demands it? If a society were draconian enough that their laws stated that all theft is punishable by death - no exceptions whatsoever - would any reasonable person (with a heart) actually condemn a man who stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving children? Sure, they could exact "justice" under the law by executing the thief, but it certainly wouldn't be the right thing to do.
As for people like Ser Ruth and Blackwall, hey, go ahead and execute them/leave them to die/whatever if you really believe that the law is the be-all and end-all in life (or whatever reasoning you might have for making that choice). But if you do that, it won't bring the dead back or satisfy them, will it? And I don't think you're really making the world a better place by throwing another two bodies onto the pile when they could be doing a lot more good alive than dead.
Yup, 100% agreed on all this!
I tend to think the definition of "justice" is giving an-eye-for-an-eye treatment to the criminal. But I don't think this is the "right" thing to do. Its more important to take whatever option will make the situation better for the most people.
When I talked about it, I did qualify that it didn't excuse his actions, but it provides needed context. Blackwall was a middleman in the Game. If you're going to go around dispensing justice over it, you'd better start at Halamshiral, and good luck with the army of untrained peasants, child conscripts and Chantry sisters that are left to you after you've run through the list.
This is the point many people miss about Blackwall's character and DA:I in general: a lot of it is about social class and classism.
Rainier is a man coming from middle class, and from what we know thanks to the book 'The Calling' Val Royeaux is a cruel place where the less fortunate starve and are treated like dirt. The whole 'I saw two urchins torturing the street dog' thing is not there to tell us that little Thom was a coward, nor that he is pro-animal abuse (some comments are beyond stupid but, sadly, there they are) nor a puppy killer (!!!) The scene he describes is there to tell a context in which on one side there are the nobles with their fancy masks and their dirty Game, while on the other side there's context of extreme cultural and social degradation.
The scene he describes is also there for another purpose imho, that is telling us how Thom's personal growth began. Learning is a fact of life. It may happen slowly or quickly, deliberately or more randomly, with or without suffering. He had a trauma that day and he learned a lesson: the best way to let evil win is that the good people do nothing (you can find this sentence in the official site, I didn't invent it).
I'm sure that all the people Thom Rainier saved as Blackwall wouldn't agree with those who claim he is not a hero, and that all the people who keep despising him would change their mind quickly if an ex-criminal who did the same things he did saved THEIR lives. Uhm, rethinking about it, the Grey Wardens keep saying that they receive very little gratitude for what they do to keep people safe, and that their sacrifices are soon forgotten.
Reading the comments on this thread makes me understand how true this is.
True but glad you found a character you likeWell no. ME3 you had no choices other than one unless you were importing.
DAI simply would've had choices I disliked
Actually it would've been like DAO in that aspect.
Ooooh. XD
Courts do consider mitigating circumstances. Very rarely in these discussions, however, do I see the "law and order" types give a realistic picture of the climate in Orlais in general and during the civil war in particular.
If you really care about looking foolish, you're in the wrong job. I don't feel at all bad about using the treaties. Those pansies should be offering that help without being compelled. The Breach is just as or more threatening to Thedas than a Blight. If they can't see that, well, tough. I don't care about their redemption or happiness.
Sure their are mitigating circumstances and each court determines what they are. "X country is corrupt and made me kill" isn't really one of them.
I'm hardly in the wrong job. The whole point is to gain favor and support, if you look like an incompetent fool, then you're not doing your job right. You can complain about those pansies all you like, it doesn't change the fact that you need them and they are well within their rights to give and take support at will. Even to their own detriment. And if you want the Inquisition to survive past Cory and a hole in the sky, which my IQ desired. Then it's better to not throw a tantrum about the harshness of politics and step on the wrong toes when all you really want to do is save your friend/LI.
Please he killed a family for gold and knew their were children there unlike say STEN he ran and hid under a false persona.This is the point many people miss about Blackwall's character and DA:I in general: a lot of it is about social class and classism.
Rainier is a man coming from middle class, and from what we know thanks to the book 'The Calling' Val Royeaux is a cruel place where the less fortunate starve and are treated like dirt. The whole 'I saw two urchins torturing the street dog' thing is not there to tell us that little Thom was a coward, nor that he is pro-animal abuse (some comments are beyond stupid but, sadly, there they are) nor a puppy killer (!!!) The scene he describes is there to tell a contest in which on one side there are the nobles with their fancy masks and their dirty Game, while on the other side there's contest of extreme cultural and social degradation.
The scene he describes is also there for another purpose imho, that is telling us how Thom's personal growth began. Learning is a fact of life. It may happen slowly or quickly, deliberately or more randomly, with or without suffering. He had a trauma that day and he learned a lesson: the best way to let evil win is that the good people do nothing (you can find this sentence in the official site, I didn't invent it).
I'm sure that all the people Thom Rainier saved as Blackwall wouldn't agree with those who claim he is not a hero, and that all the people who keep despising him would change their mind quickly if an ex-criminal who did the same things he did saved THEIR lives. Uhm, rethinking about it, the Grey Wardens keep saying that they receive very little gratitude for what they do to keep people safe, and that their sacrifices are soon forgotten.
Reading the comments on this thread makes me understand how true this is.
Okay the Orlais is corrupt really doesn't work for me because Blackwall willingly took the job.
He wasn't blackmailed into it.
He wasn't physically forced.
He did it for gold. And on recognition that it was worse than he originally though he didn't call off the attack he let it go through.
Now this is all understandable but this certainly doesn't make him some misunderstood woobie that we're dogpiling on.
Please he killed a family for gold and knew their were children there unlike say STEN he ran and hid under a false persona.
omg some people just keep repeating the same things like a broken record, and I bet they don't even read what other people wrote. We already know what he did, thank you, the discussion has moved on -.-
Edit: Yes Ryzaki, thank you for reminding us what Rainier did, it was needed. It was not my point anyway.
I give them their show and get them back on track. What Orlais does after that is up to them, and as I said, at the point Rainier is exposed the empress or emperor owes you big. I don't mind collecting since I never owed them anything.
And I don't mind conscripting, either. I do that every chance I get at the war table. These people haven't seen what's coming, but you have. Mincing around kissing cheeks should be left to people who haven't.
Sure the ruler owes you, but how long do you think that will last with a bunch of powerful nobles at their back. You can't threaten them with Cory forever. Unless you plan to never defeat him, in which case, it would just make you useless to them.
???
It's true. The core romances were Blackwall, Josephine, Bull, Cassandra, Sera and Dorian. Solas and Cullen were the extras.
I'm so glad that the additional options were added. They should have made Blackwall a female and give it to guys, while they were at it.
I read most of it already and found that most of what you said is double speak for allowing your wliuf get off sotch free. I am just stating Cole knew he was not blackmailed or forced to go ahead and kill the guys family that he knew that they're their according to banter between him and Cole but yes it because of you know classism.. Deflection more like it.omg some people just keep repeating the same things like a broken record, and I bet they don't even read what other people wrote. We already know what he did, thank you, the discussion has moved on -.-
I'm so glad that the additional options were added. They should have made Blackwall a female and give it to guys, while they were at it.
A cuthroat woman and a liar that killed Orlesians for the promise of sweet gold? Where do I sign up?
A cuthroat woman and a liar that killed Orlesians for the promise of sweet gold? Where do I sign up?
See? I know there are guys who love this kind of thing. A missed opportunity.
See? I know there are guys who love this kind of thing. A missed opportunity.
Well, they got it last game via Isabela.
Well, they got it last game via Isabela.
Yes, but Blackwall is a bit more extreme. A natural progression of things.
The reason people are mentioning it is because some people have implied that law and justice/doing what is right are one and the same, and an awful lot of them seem to claim that anyone who chooses not to follow the letter of the law is somehow wrong for allowing their compassion to supersede the law. It's perfectly valid to point out that the law and Orlesian society in general aren't particularly just and that they are, in fact, flawed at the core. It is pretty hypocritical of those law-and-order types to say to others that they're wrong for choosing to show mercy and to constantly throw "the law is always right" when that "law" happens to be unjust in the first place.Idk how mentioning Orlais being corrupt is somehow a defense of Blackwall. That's like saying every criminal should go free because their country is corrupt.
Yes, but Blackwall is a bit more extreme. A natural progression of things.
Meh, killing a boatload of slaves sounds pretty extreme, in my opinion.
Meh, killing a boatload of slaves sounds pretty extreme, in my opinion.
Not to mention all the lives lost in Kirkwall from the Qunari attack due to her not returning the Tome of Koslun.
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