1018 réponses à ce sujet

[ThreeF]

Oh, you said Skyhold. I'm sorry, my mind went back to Haven, when you first talk to him. He tries to put you on a pedestal during the first Haven conversations, but laughs at the middle one. The conversation on the battlements never struck me as him trying to put the inquisitor on a pedestal. If anything, it seems that he suddenly sees the inquisition in a new light, and wants to make sure the inquisitor is taking leading seriously, most likely since he himself made what he felt to be a horrific mistake as a leader. 

 

I'm guessing you are talking about when he says, "Let him come. I swear I'll take the twisted bastard down, even if I have to die to do it."

And your reply choices are:

 

<snip>

 

At the end of the game, I can't remember who had cutscenes when, but some time before the final battle you have a cutscene with Blackwall when you talk about the final battle, and finishes building the griffon. Unless that's a romanced only scene!

 

He constantly tries to put the Inquisition on the pedestal, because of the way he is. He needs an ideal to cling to and to define himself. (This is why I think sending him to Wardens is poor option for him)
 

 

I guess the things is that I dislike that dialogue (I don't get the flirt option with him) There isn't any option to be more diplomatic about it or talk it further, so I end up listening to his ravings either about how I should care or about how I shouldn't care, or about how I should be. All three of his reactions are within his character I never argued that they weren't and again I don't dislike the fact that he is the way he is, but it is a fact that his idealistic speeches creep me out.

 

I never got that cut-scene either, maybe you need a higher approval or something.

[CredulousAlloy]

Yes, me too. Give me that telenovela goodness! It's such a tacky, exhibitionistic gesture that it probably just scandalizes everyone in the main hall. But I bet it makes for a hell of a bard's tale in the years to come.

 

I can just imagine Vivienne looking down open-mouthed from her usual position above the great hall, lol. And I bet those two Orlesians you hear constantly gossiping had a field day!

[Scuttlebutt101]

To be honest, as much as I love Blackwall, I didn't see the judgement scene as him blaming himself. He had a kind of an idealized image of how the Inquisition should operate and was disappointed that the Inquisitor would resort to some downright criminal stuff to bring him back. He thought he didn't deserve it, but I think he was blaming the quizzy for that after all. All he wanted was to answer for his crime (via execution) and be done with it, and then the Inquisitor pretty much forces him back. His mental state is a mess and he lashes out. I don't see why people make such a big deal out of it, to be honest. A lot of people speak before thinking when they're on edge.

[ThreeF]

To be honest, as much as I love Blackwall, I didn't see the judgement scene as him blaming himself. He had a kind of an idealized image of how the Inquisition should operate and was disappointed that the Inquisitor would resort to some downright criminal stuff to bring him back. He thought he didn't deserve it, but I think he was blaming the quizzy for that after all. All he wanted was to answer for his crime (via execution) and be done with it, and then the Inquisitor pretty much forces him back. His mental state is a mess and he lashes out. I don't see why make such a big deal out of it, to be honest. A lot of people speak before thinking when they're on edge.

 

This. I also think that this is the case with him. This is why  it doesn't matter if you got him back to Skyhold using favors or  Leliana's methods.

[Ynqve]

He pretty much brings up your relationship and says while he lied about everything else his feelings for you were real which would be romantic well enough if he wasn't saying it in the middle of judgement. Especially after running his mouth about your corruption.

 

Then your choices are pretty much to tell him to stay put, you loved him but the lies killed your relationship or two ways to take him back which result in you kissing him in chains in front of the court. I admit my lip actually curled in disgust.

 

They really should have split it up into two different scenes. I wasn't disgusted, but I found it so over the top and insane that I laughed. I felt like I was watching an extra cheesy soap opera. At least I found it entertaining, if stupid. 

[Ryzaki]

Slaves obey

the free choose

 

and fenris chose to obey

fenris chose to be a slave again 

 

He followed that obedience up with running away from Danarius to Hawke. So I saw it as the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

But yes he killed a group of people that did nothing but try to help him. While I can understand why he did it that doesn't make the crime any lesser. That said Fenris clearly chose not to be a slave again in my game with how he ripped Danarius heart out when Hawke helped him so all worked out

 

 

They really should have split it up into two different scenes. I wasn't disgusted, but I found it so over the top and insane that I laughed. I felt like I was watching an extra cheesy soap opera. At least I found it entertaining, if stupid. 

 

They really should've. I'd gladly taken a "we'll discuss this later." choice. (or a snarky "You wish to discuss this now? In front of everyone?")

[Ynqve]

I know. But all things considering... how the Inq could (story-wise) think it will be a great idea to send him there after what we just saw is beyond me. I guess it only works if the Inq allied with the wardens (but I personally never do that, so I don't know what the hell to do with him).

 

It makes perfect sense if you ally with the Wardens. It makes even more sense if you set a precedent by judging other people to join the Wardens before you get to Revelations. 

[Bugsie]

Yeah as I already said not buying the hating himself for putting her in a position with her integrity and rep might be compromised because he's the one who decides to open his mouth about their relationship in open court.

 

That scene is just so...ugh.

In the judgement scene – if you let him atone he’s the most angry, It’s  quite palpable  and I remember feeling quite anxious that I’d made the ‘wrong choice’ (not great at dealing with anger personally so I always find it confronting even in vidya games) It’s like he knows that you’re doing him a favour but more importantly  you’ve removed the one thing he thought he could do to control his fate.

 

For me – not so much self-righteousness more a remnant arrogance that he displays about his fate (Thom Rainier, the younger version was a bit of an arrogant know it all, heh, maybe people would like him more for that!)  And to be honest, I’m happy to smack that out of him.  (and it's why I really dislike the making out in chains, it's drama but it's ugh yeah not my cup of tea *Solas tea drinking face*)

 

My memory of the other decisions you can make in judgement - they don’t have that same angry arrogant self-righteous tone, he’s resigned to them even, and in the one where you talk about trust, his voice breaks – which never happens in any other judgement.

[ComedicSociopathy]

He followed that obedience up with running away from Danarius to Hawke. So I saw it as the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

But yes he killed a group of people that did nothing but try to help him. While I can understand why he did it that doesn't make the crime any lesser. That said Fenris clearly chose not to be a slave again in my game with how he ripped Danarius heart out when Hawke helped him so all worked out

 

And Blackwall followed up his crimes with becoming a pseudo-Grey Warden that's done nothing in the past six years but help anyone in harms way. Thus, Blackwall also clearly choose not to be the sort of person that orders others to murder entire families for profit. 

[Scuttlebutt101]

This. I also think that this is the case with him. This is why  it doesn't matter if you got him back to Skyhold using favors or  Leliana's methods.

He tends to be kind of a wide-eyed idealist, yeah. I hate idealists. Why in the world did I fall for him (and Alistair), idefk. I'll still defend this walking disaster to the death.

[Ynqve]

They really should've. I'd gladly taken a "we'll discuss this later." choice. (or a snarky "You wish to discuss this now? In front of everyone?")

 

Or just cut to Quizzy's room or something, like they did after the Landsmeet. Sure, Alistair was a bastard for dumping you in front of the party but at least he didn't do it as he was declaring himself king. 

[Vita Brevis]

It makes perfect sense if you ally with the Wardens. It makes even more sense if you set a precedent by judging other people to join the Wardens before you get to Revelations. 

I mean, we all saw in the end that the wardens yet again doing some sh*t and it might not be wise to send Blackwall there since Hawke went missing.

[Catwall]

I can just imagine Vivienne looking down open-mouthed from her usual position above the great hall, lol. And I bet those two Orlesians you hear constantly gossiping had a field day!

It's a good thing Vivienne already has a fainting couch up there, right?

 

But yeah, the gossip! In my case, the story would go like this: The mighty Herald of Andraste calls upon all of her shadowy connections to spring her sketchy lover out of prison, tries him herself in a pantomime of justice, lets him off scot-free and then makes out with him in front of the court. Bahahaha! I'm sorry, but I just don't take the game seriously enough to not be amused by this.

 

I just wish my IQ could wear a scarlet dress while seated on the throne.

[Ryzaki]

In the judgement scene – if you let him atone he’s the most angry, It’s  quite palpable  and I remember feeling quite anxious that I’d made the ‘wrong choice’ (not great at dealing with anger personally so I always find it confronting even in vidya games) It’s like he knows that you’re doing him a favour but more importantly  you’ve removed the one thing he thought he could do to control his fate.

 

For me – not so much self-righteousness more a remnant arrogance that he displays about his fate (Thom Rainier, the younger version was a bit of an arrogant know it all, heh, maybe people would like him more for that!)  And to be honest, I’m happy to smack that out of him.  (and it's why I really dislike the making out in chains, it's drama but it's ugh yeah not my cup of tea *Solas tea drinking face*)

 

My memory of the other decisions you can make in judgement - they don’t have that same angry arrogant self-righteous tone, he’s resigned to them even, and in the one where you talk about trust, his voice breaks – which never happens in any other judgement.

 

Really? Most of his anger from that scene came from the beginning before you even judge him. But I don't have him atone as himself (that's not for me really plus you can't even call him Rainer so meh).

 

XD

 

He seemed pleased to me about the wardens judgement (which was good because my PC would rather he not be tempted to run off again).

 

And Blackwall followed up his crimes with becoming a pseudo-Grey Warden that's done nothing in the past six years but help anyone in harms way. Thus, Blackwall also clearly choose not to be the sort of person that orders others to murder entire families for profit. 

 

I really really really hope you're not trying to compare Blackwall's willing and for profit crime to Fenris PTSD state. I really hope that's not the case.

 

Not to mention he wasn't a pseudo Grey warden. He stole a dead man's identity. He didn't even go to the wardens because he was scared they'd think he killed Blackwall (which is utterly absurd. Having Blackwall's badge, the vial of blood and telling the truth would've been enough for them to recruit him.)

[Ynqve]

I mean, we all saw in the end that the wardens yet again doing some sh*t and it might not be wise to send Blackwall there since Hawke went missing.

 

What can I say? I (and most of my Inquisitors) have a soft spot for the Wardens xD

 

And the Inquisitor doesn't know that Hawke's missing at that point.

[ThreeF]

He tends to be kind of a wide-eyed idealist, yeah. I hate idealists. Why in the world did I fall for him (and Alistair), idefk. I'll still defend this walking disaster to the death.

I think that after revelations, if you give him a chance, he might kick this bad habit.

 

He is idealist because he thinks that this is the only way to do good, mainly because he hates himself and what he has done in the past, so he runs into the extremely opposite direction. He does seems like a guy who overdo things. 

 

(I just want to put a gag on him, a pretty gag, i promise)

[jellobell]

It's a good thing Vivienne already has a fainting couch up there, right?

 

But yeah, the gossip! In my case, the story would go like this: The mighty Herald of Andraste calls upon all of her shadowy connections to spring her sketchy lover out of prison, tries him herself in a pantomime of justice, lets him off scot-free and then makes out with him in front of the court. Bahahaha! I'm sorry, but I just don't take the game seriously enough to not be amused by this.

 

I just wish my IQ could wear a scarlet dress while seated on the throne.

This is amazing and Varric should use it as the plot of his new trashy novel.

[Vita Brevis]

What can I say? I (and most of my Inquisitors) have a soft spot for the Wardens xD

 

And the Inquisitor doesn't know that Hawke's missing at that point.

Yep. But we do now, and I personally don't know what to do with him really. It was easy to send him to the wardens on the first run when I knew nothing about them.

[Catwall]

This is amazing and Varric should use it as the plot of his new trashy novel.

Right?! And in my case, my IQ is roughly half Blackwall's age, so there's the May-December angle too, adding to the scandal, LMAO.

[ComedicSociopathy]

 

I really really really hope you're not trying to compare Blackwall's willing and for profit crime to Fenris PTSD state. I really hope that's not the case.

 

Fenris had PTSD? He'd spent months with the Fog Warriors and still decided to kill them all when his master asked him to. I always felt he had more of a slave mentality then anything else. Regardless, the fact still remains that afterwards these characters decided that their actions were wrong and required them to abandon the former lives they led. That was where I was comparing the two. 

[Ryzaki]

Right?! And in my case, my IQ is roughly half Blackwall's age, so there's the May-December angle too, adding to the scandal, LMAO.

 

Isn't he younger than the actual Blackwall?

[Ryzaki]

Fenris had PTSD? He'd spent months with the Fog Warriors and still decided to kill them all when his master asked him to. I always felt he had more of a slave mentality then anything else. Regardless, the fact still remains that afterwards these characters decided that their actions were wrong and required them to abandon the former lives they led. That was where I was comparing the two. 

 

You don't think a slave mentality where you kill all your friends on your masters say so is a result of PTSD?

 

Really?

 

Now Fenris killing the mages if you side with the templars? That's purely on him being a douche. But the Fog warrior incident? He even described it that he felt he was in a dream and once Danarius arrived it was over but after he actually killed them the impact of it hit him.

 

Which is great really it's also something pretty much loads of BW companions do at some point. (Even the more "evil" ones).

[jellobell]

Right?! And in my case, my IQ is roughly half Blackwall's age, so there's the May-December angle too, adding to the scandal, LMAO.

So "sketchy older man lover". I think only the Randy Dowager Quarterly could do this story justice.

 

Five scarves fluttered in shock out of five.

[Bugsie]

Really? Most of his anger from that scene came from the beginning before you even judge him. But I don't have him atone as himself (that's not for me really plus you can't even call him Rainer so meh).

 

XD

 

He seemed pleased to me about the wardens judgement (which was good because my PC would rather he not be tempted to run off again).

Well that comes from him not being in control of his fate, (as I read it) which is why I bring him back, you made this personal I'm gonna deal with it because I can.  Now after 150 hrs of game time and weeks ago - I'm gonna have to go back or you tube it and make proper note on it.  I do remember feeling distinctly anxious in response to his anger, but yeah his tone after judgement is very different for atonement than any other judgements and then the making out in chains bit made me think did I do the right thing or did Bioware just f*ck this bit up?

[Catwall]

Isn't he younger than the actual Blackwall?

Not 100% sure, Ryz. I have Blackwall set in my mind as @45-50.