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[Ryriena]

Yeah I hated that aspect of the romance arc with him, I am just glad the extra year gave us Cullen and Solas, since I can live without this type of realationship, since it's seems unhealthy to me. Although, Solas is also unhealthly somewhat, although, I still love it for some odd reason and it's similar to the Anders romance. Just glad the gave a knight in shiny amor with Cullen, which I will cry if something happens to his character arc to cause drama with the romance in DLC.

[jellobell]

How does the judgment scene play out if you're in a relationship with him?

After you finish sentencing him he suddenly wants to talk about your relationship. In front of the entire court. And then you make out with him while he's still in chains. Some people don't take it too seriously, but that's one of the reasons Blackwall's romance ain't my thing. It's pretty mood whiplash-y. You can't go from serious to camp within the same scene.

 

It also seems rather out of character. Hadn't he just finished berating the Inquisitor for making the Inquisition look corrupt? Well it sure as hell looks corrupt now. 

 

Damn the romances in this game. I want Dorian and he's gay. I want Solas and he's only into elves. I can't romance Josephine because I hate the scene in Val Royeaux, my main Inquisitor is not into SM so Bull is out, Cullen's romance is bland and Sera....my main Inquisitor could never romance anyone with that much fear of the unknown. I had hopes for Blackwall, and his past crimes never bothered me that much since he was becoming a so much different man. His self-righteousness, that may turn out to be critical.

Make an elf? Or a man? But yeah, I feel you. In the leadup to Inquisition I was pumped to finally be able to play as a Qunari. And then I found out that Solas was only into elves. Still, though, I ended up falling in love with my elven Inquisitor.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

I am rather alone in this, I know,  but I like that he kisses you in front of everybody, and I find it very IC: Rainier/Blackwall is a man who doesn't give a **** about what people may think or not think about him, and he's fed up with the mannerism reigning in Orlais, where people are multilayered and wear masks to hide their identity in public (!) Furthermore, he's lived alone in the woods for years and now he's outspoken and genuine to the point he's become oblivious even about the basic rules of social conduct

My Quizzie is the black sheep of the family, she kept behaving like an untamed horse and never got along with her parents. This means she and Thom have so much in common, they're made the one for the other ^^

 

Rainier may have lied about his name but he's never lied about his feelings, this tells a lot about him and the way he thinks. A man is not made by his name or a medal for valor, his valor is determined by his heart and his actions. I could never have forgiven him if he lied about his feelings and just used me, but since it's not the case who cares if his name is Blackrain or Rainwall?

 

About the kiss during judgement scene, I've just read that Adaar is the one who kisses him in public, not viceversa,  she cups his face with both hands and leans down to kiss him. So one can't even accuse him of ruining her reputation, she does it herself xD

[Ieldra]

"No. It doesn't work like that. They're still dead."

That said, I have a take on how a certain kind of Hawke would view Isabela. Well, it's not mine, it's Matt Stover's, but...well.

---

"But - I just...the kind of s**t I've done-"

"Has nothing to do with me. You might face justice someday, if there is such a thing, and if it's unlucky enough to find you. Absolution is between you and your god."

"Then you...I guess I don't get it after all."

"Listen to me now. I know you call yourself a bad man. I know you have harmed people who were no threat to you. I know you have left a trail of horrors that scar the face of this world. I know all these things, and many more, and I don't care. They have nothing to do with me. They're not what I do."

"Maybe if you started with what you work is, instead of what it's not."

"My work is your father's madness. My work is your mother's murder. My work is pain, and fear, and having to be a parent to your parent while still you are a child."

"How do you...how can you possibly know..."

"What you call yourself, what others call you, what you have done - these mean nothing to me. I know you. You met me a month ago. I have known you since the world was born. Everything you are is what you should be. Everything you should be is what you are. I know all of you, and there is nothing in you I do not love."

Who says that to whom? This sounds like what a god would say to a mortal, which is a completely different relationship than a romance.

[jellobell]

Who says that to whom? This sounds like what a god would say to a mortal, which is a completely different relationship than a romance.

I'd imagine they're quoting from that book they linked.

[Ynqve]

I'm a bit late to the party, but yeah! Blackwall did have a choice. He took the job, he went through with it, he ran away like a coward, he took Blackwall's identity and he kept up the charade until Revelations where he finally decided to do the right thing. He's a scumbag! 

 

Orlesian politics or not, he willingly agreed to kill a man for coin. We don't know how threatened he was when he took the offer. Maybe declining would have been a Ned Stark move, maybe nothing would have happened. From what we've heard about the man he was back then, Rainier was an *******. I don't think the guy who hired him would have approached him without being certain that Rainier would take the job. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped at the opportunity to make some coin and stick it to a noble. 

 

Killing a noble for coin is nothing in Orlais. It's what happens in the Game. I wouldn't moralize over Rainier accepting the contract, show me an Orlesian noble who's innocent. And then things get complicated when they realize that the guy is with his family. For some reason Rainier can't/won't call off the attack. But here's the deal: his soldiers could have spared the children. They had a choice too, they could have decided to not stab the kids. They didn't. While Rainier is the man who's responsible for the massacre, his men aren't innocent. For whatever reason, they finished the job. 

 

Rainier was a sleazy coward, but he changed. The man who decided to face the hangman's noose was a completely different man than the guy who did the massacre. That doesn't make him less guilty, and he'd be the first to admit it. As I've said multiple times, I believe he's worthy of redemption. But he's not a misunderstood woobie whom life has been **** to. He made a series of bad decisions, but no one forced him to make them.

[wmingua]

I like him. I was shocked at first but he really is no different then Zevran, Sten or Anders in comparison to killing people. I am also not 100% sure if he just gave the orders or if he participated in killing the family.

 

As I understood it, he didn't do the actual killing himself, and didn't know the family would be there. And the poor man is clearly tortured by it.

 

Zevran, Anders and Sten were worse, and less remorseful. And we don't know the extent of what Leliana's done, but I'd wager she's worse.

 

I like Blackwall. 

[Ryriena]

As I understood it, he didn't do the actual killing himself, and didn't know the family would be there. And the poor man is clearly tortured by it.

Zevran, Anders and Sten were worse, and less remorseful. And we don't know the extent of what Leliana's done, but I'd wager she's worse.

I like Blackwall.

Actually, your wrong that they wern't remorseful, since Sten let the authorities take him in and if you let him out you had to have a high level silver tough to get him out of the cage.

Zevran was in fact a slave himself, as he was sold to the Crows though also embraced his life.

Anders was inhabited by a fade spirit and also remorseful if you rivaled him.

[Ieldra]

Make an elf? Or a man? But yeah, I feel you. In the leadup to Inquisition I was pumped to finally be able to play as a Qunari. And then I found out that Solas was only into elves. Still, though, I ended up falling in love with my elven Inquisitor.

I have made an elf. I like her, but she's not my human mage, who will forever be *the* Inquisitor for me. As for making a man, I can't play m/m. Oddly enough, no problem with f/f or straight from any side, but m/m makes me uncomfortable. 

 

As for Blackwall's romance, I guess that's it. Most likely I'll play it once to see it and then reload. Taking the private into the public is the main reason why I dislike Josephine's romance, and that's one of the things for which Blackwall won't get a free pass. Then he doesn't ditch the corruption line. I'm beginning to wonder how anyone can complete this romance... getting over my discomfort about m/m appears quite a bit easier all of a sudden, but my female human mage will stay single, most likely.

[Ieldra]

I'd imagine they're quoting from that book they linked.

Yes, I know. That's why I asked. I know of the Acts of Caine stories, but haven't continued to read them after I disliked the second book.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

Yes, I know. That's why I asked. I know of the Acts of Caine stories, but haven't continued to read them after I disliked the second book.

 

Blackwall's romance is definitely not for you then, they kiss in the barn with 'Dennet the pervert' always watching, they have sex in the barn, which is basically an open space, and if you speak to the bartender he tells you that the horses are all spooked because of the strange noises coming from the stables at night xD

[Scuttlebutt101]

Actually, your wrong that they wern't remorseful, since Sten let the authorities take him in and if you let him out you had to have a high level silver tough to get him out of the cage.

Zevran was in fact a slave himself, as he was sold to the Crows though also embraced his life.

Anders was inhabited by a fade spirit and also remorseful if you rivaled him.

In Sten's case I was never sure if he was remorseful over taking the lives of innocents or whether he was ashamed that his panic took the better of him. I'm not trying to demonize him, I'm just saying that he's a Qunari and, as Alistair pointed out, "regret" may mean something entirely different to him. 

 

That Zevran was a slave doesn't excuse him. Calpernia was a slave and I killed her in a heartbeat. The fact that he was sold to the Crows as a child doesn't change the fact that he enjoys his job, even after splitting from them. He even confirms that sometimes innocent (I think he specifically mentioned children) get caught in a crossfire, and even though he says it's unfortunate, he's a lot more nonchalant about it than Blackwall.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I rivaled Anders every time and he doesn't show a faintest sign of regret, just goes on about how this had to be done! And yes, a demon made him! Still doesn't excuse him since there's nothing in the game that suggests that he doesn't have control over his thoughts and actions. Yeah, he has his episodes, but he was clearly aware of his actions when he blew up the chantry and all the time he spent in preparation for this. If you ask him if Justice made him, he flat out tells you "no". By the way, before that, he gains approval if you sell Fenris to his former master. He's downright gleeful, tbh. 

 

To be honest, I don't understand how some people can feel the righteous indignation over Blackwall because He's a murderer! and at the same time fawn over Zevran, Anders and/or Sten. 

[Ieldra]

Blackwall's romance is definitely not for you then, they kiss in the barn with 'Dennet the pervert' always watching, they have sex in the barn, which is basically an open space, and if you speak to the bartender he tells you that the horses are all spooked because of the strange noises coming from the stables at night xD

Who would've thought that The Witcher (1) does something sex-related with more taste than a Bioware game. The scene with Geralt and Vesna Hood - where people talked about the house where they made out being haunted - was actually romantic, and funny. This is just gross.

 

And this was originally the main romance for straight female Inquisitors? I have no words.

[Ryriena]

In Sten's case I was never sure if he was remorseful over taking the lives of innocents or whether he was ashamed that his panic took the better of him. I'm not trying to demonize him, I'm just pointing out that he's a Qunari and, as Alistair pointed out, "regret" may meen something entirely different to him.

That Zevran was a slave doesn't excuse him. Calpernia was a slave and I killed her in a heartbeat. The fact that he was sold to the Crows as a child doesn't change the fact that he enjoys his job, even after splitting from them. He even confirms that sometimes innocent (I think he specifically mentioned children) get caught in a crossfire, and even though he says it's unfortunate, he's a lot more nonchalant about it than Blackwall.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I rivaled Anders every time and he doesn't show a faintest sign of regret, just goes on about how this had to be done! And yes, a demon made him! Still doesn't excuse him since there's nothing in the game that suggests that he doesn't have control over his thoughts and actions. Yeah, he has his episodes, but he was clearly aware of his actions when he blew up the chantry and all the time he spent in preparation for this. If you ask him if Justice made him, he flat out tells you "no". By the way, before that, he gains approval if you sell Fenris to his former master. He's downright gleeful, tbh.

To be honest, I don't understand how some people can feel the righteous indignation over Blackwall because He's a murderer! and at the same time fawn over Zevran, Anders and/or Sten.

I did not excuse Zevran, in fact, I said he embraced his life as an assissian so I doubt that excusing what he is and who he is.

I am indifferent to Zevran and Sten by the way.

About Sten , I think his dialog can be seen as both he has hatred for himself for loosing his self control and killing the family, in fact, I would say owning up to the mistake was his attempted atonement for his crime.

Anders has an excuse for the crime, since it was Justice that took control and forced him to act on it, when you rival him you learn he tired to stop it, and Justice himself stopped him from disarming the bomb. Investigate options are here for a reason.

At least, I admit when characters are flawed
and don't excuse their behaviors like some people here.

[Scuttlebutt101]

I wasn't talking about you or anyone specific, I'm just pretty sure there are people like that. And I'm pretty sure you're excusing a mass murderer right now.

 

Anders has an excuse for the crime, since it was Justice that took control and forced him to act on it, when you rival him you learn he tired to stop it, and Justice himself stopped him from disarming the bomb. Investigate options are here for a reason.
 

 

Can anyone confirm this? I always go through all possible dialogue options and I'm pretty sure he never said anything like that. Or does he only say it if you spare him? Then he contradicts himself, because earlier he was going on about how he and Justice are one, this is the justice all mages have awaited etc etc. And even Justice did take control over him that time, which I still have no reason to believe, it was still Anders' fault for ending up like this in the first place. You'd think a grown-ass mage would understand a simple truth by then - that letting a fade entity inhabit your body is a bad idea. 

 

...I might or might not have started another Anders ******, so I'm just going to bow out before it gets any worse. Peace.

[MiceAndDogs]

Do you not understand that he took Blackwall's name to do good. So if someone tries to make up for their mistakes, they're a scumbag?

[SgtSteel91]

Who would've thought that The Witcher (1) does something sex-related with more taste than a Bioware game. The scene with Geralt and Vesna Hood - where people talked about the house where they made out being haunted - was actually romantic, and funny. This is just gross.

 

And this was originally the main romance for straight female Inquisitors? I have no words.

 

You don't have to shag him. You can just hang out and drink with friends in that scene.

[Aimi]

Yes, I know. That's why I asked. I know of the Acts of Caine stories, but haven't continued to read them after I disliked the second book.

Neither one of them is a god, although they're not mortals either. It's really a pretty healthy relationship, all things considered.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

Who would've thought that The Witcher (1) does something sex-related with more taste than a Bioware game. The scene with Geralt and Vesna Hood - where people talked about the house where they made out being haunted - was actually romantic, and funny. This is just gross.

 

And this was originally the main romance for straight female Inquisitors? I have no words.

 

Actually there are a lot of women who love some good old fashioned sex in the barn and I'm very happy with the romance plot with Blackwall, it's emotionally intense, hot, sweet and rewarding. I don't mind if Master Dennet learns a trick or two while watching, good for his wife xD

 

Different romance options for different people, I'm sorry that there's isn't one that works for you.

[Iakus]

I'm a bit late to the party, but yeah! Blackwall did have a choice. He took the job, he went through with it, he ran away like a coward, he took Blackwall's identity and he kept up the charade until Revelations where he finally decided to do the right thing. He's a scumbag! 

 

Orlesian politics or not, he willingly agreed to kill a man for coin. We don't know how threatened he was when he took the offer. Maybe declining would have been a Ned Stark move, maybe nothing would have happened. From what we've heard about the man he was back then, Rainier was an *******. I don't think the guy who hired him would have approached him without being certain that Rainier would take the job. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped at the opportunity to make some coin and stick it to a noble. 

 

Killing a noble for coin is nothing in Orlais. It's what happens in the Game. I wouldn't moralize over Rainier accepting the contract, show me an Orlesian noble who's innocent. And then things get complicated when they realize that the guy is with his family. For some reason Rainier can't/won't call off the attack. But here's the deal: his soldiers could have spared the children. They had a choice too, they could have decided to not stab the kids. They didn't. While Rainier is the man who's responsible for the massacre, his men aren't innocent. For whatever reason, they finished the job. 

 

Rainier was a sleazy coward, but he changed. The man who decided to face the hangman's noose was a completely different man than the guy who did the massacre. That doesn't make him less guilty, and he'd be the first to admit it. As I've said multiple times, I believe he's worthy of redemption. But he's not a misunderstood woobie whom life has been **** to. He made a series of bad decisions, but no one forced him to make them.

Yup.  That's Cole's assessment at least:

 

Blackwall: Cole, if you knew what I am, what I'd done, why didn't you tell the others?
Cole: Everyone hides dead things. Everyone pretends.  You wanted to fix it.
Blackwall: I'm a murderer.
Cole: You don't want to be.  You made a new you.  You are Blackwall.  You killed Rainier.
Blackwall: If only that were possible.
Cole: You would stand between Rainier and the carriage.  But you can't.  It doesn't work like that.
Cole: So you carry the bodies to remember.
Blackwall: I suppose I do.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

A lot of companions have done some really f**ked up stuff. Blackwall (Or Thom) is helping to close the breach. That's all I care about.

[ThreeF]

A lot of companions have done some really f**ked up stuff. Blackwall (Or Thom) is helping to close the breach. That's all I care about.

Now that I think about it, I think only Alistair has not done something terrible by the time you have met him (maybe Cassandra and Aveline too?), everyone else did something.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do you not understand that he took Blackwall's name to do good. So if someone tries to make up for their mistakes, they're a scumbag?

"A man who truly aspired to be righteous would not lie. He would earn respect, not steal the respect due another." - Cassandra

[Iakus]

 

"A man who truly aspired to be righteous would not lie. He would earn respect, not steal the respect due another." - Cassandra

 

To be fair, in the end, that's exactly what he does.

[GreenClover]

 

"A man who truly aspired to be righteous would not lie. He would earn respect, not steal the respect due another." - Cassandra

 

With all due respect for Cassandra, it's just one woman's opinion. One fictional woman's opinion. It doesn't really prove anything. Rainier didn't intentionally steal any respect meant for Warden Blackwall, he never bragged about real Blackwall's accomplishments. If Cassandra only respected him because of him being a Warden and not because of his actions in the Inquisition, that's Cassandra's problem.