1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I would agree if he had *knowingly* murdered children. Since he didn't, it's unfair to be any more harsh to him than we are to Zevran, or Leliana, or Sten. 

 

You might draw such a clear line when it comes to everyone, for all I know, but for my part it seems that clear lines have a lot of trouble *staying* clear in Thedas.

Yes he did knowingly murder them. He heard them sing a verse of a nursery rhyme but didn't stop the attack. I'm no more harsh to him than I am to the other characters like him. In fact, he gets the exact same punishment I give 2 of the 3 people you mentioned.  

 

So now we're blaming his death from a Darkspawn ambush on Thom 

Being at fault =/= blaming. If we are to blame anyone, it would be the Darkspawn because they launched the attack and the real Blackwall because he made the choice to get inbetween them. That said, Rainier being there was the cause of Blackwall dying so he was at fault. 

 

To use an ingame example, The Iron Bull is at fault for the Chargers' deaths but not to blame. The blame goes to them for staying their ground and the Venatori for attacking. However The Iron Bull sent them there so is at fault. 

 

Why that last part?  The real Blackwall legally conscripted Rannier.  Rannier even got the vial of darkspawn blood!

I just said that of the three options I personally see him remaining under custody is the best one. 

 

Ahhh, isn't it lovely when people are able to have a discussion without resorting to personal insults. 

 

"Kanye West in the midst of a Twitter rant" - ouch! 

To be fair, the person you are referring to responding to someone who has been doing personal insults for a while now. I don't condone personal insults, but the other person was already doing it so fight fire with fire I guess. 

[Br3admax]

Legally speaking, Orlais has no right to keep Blackwall if he could actually prove he was conscripted or if the Wardens take him, and they probably will. Inquisition seems keen on saving every party member to cut down on the whining. 

[AresKeith]

Being at fault =/= blaming. If we are to blame anyone, it would be the Darkspawn because they launched the attack and the real Blackwall because he made the choice to get inbetween them. That said, Rainier being there was the cause of Blackwall dying so he was at fault. 

 

To use an ingame example, The Iron Bull is at fault for the Chargers' deaths but not to blame. The blame goes to them for staying their ground and the Venatori for attacking. However The Iron Bull sent them there so is at fault. 

 

It's not even his fault, it was a random occurrence that could've happen even if Blackwall recruited someone else or on his way back to the Wardens

[Ynqve]

 

To be fair, the person you are referring to responding to someone who has been doing personal insults for a while now. I don't condone personal insults, but the other person was already doing it so fight fire with fire I guess. 

 

 

Oh I agree, they were both doing it. But the Kanye West thing amused me so I couldn't help but to comment. 

[Delilah Faye]

 

Yes he did knowingly murder them. He heard them sing a verse of a nursery rhyme but didn't stop the attack. I'm no more harsh to him than I am to the other characters like him. In fact, he gets the exact same punishment I give 2 of the 3 people you mentioned.  

 

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling you think I'm judging you for disapproving of him and I'm not. Some of the people who are hardest on him are favorites of mine. Cassandra, for example is very upset and I completely understand why. 

 

I just personally feel sorry for him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's not even his fault, it was a random occurrence that could've happen even if Blackwall recruited someone else or on his way back to the Wardens

It also could never have happened. We can't operate on what ifs. We can only operate on what did happen, and what did happen was Blackwall died taking a hit from a Darkspawn meant for Rainier. 

 

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling you think I'm judging you for disapproving of him and I'm not. Some of the people who are hardest on him are favorites of mine. Cassandra, for example is very upset and I completely understand why. 

 

I just personally feel sorry for him.

Oh, I don't think you were judging me. Your post seemed to have a pondering element to it, so I thought I should clarify. That's all.

[AresKeith]

It also could never have happened. We can't operate on what ifs. We can only operate on what did happen, and what did happen was Blackwall died taking a hit from a Darkspawn meant for Rainier. 

 

Which still isn't Rainier's fault 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Which still isn't Rainier's fault 

Yes it is. If Rainier was not there, Blackwall would not have been killed. Thus Blackwall's death is Rainier's fault. Even Rainier feels this way. 

[Addai]

The sheer tenacity of certain Blackwall haters is curious to observe. I just can't imagine spending so much of my energy lambasting a fictional character. Is it that you're bothered by the fact that some people not only forgive but romance him?

[AresKeith]

Yes it is. If Rainier was not there, Blackwall would not have been killed. Thus Blackwall's death is Rainier's fault. Even Rainier feels this way. 

 

Blackwall was the reason he was there, Rainier feels that way because of self-guilt. You feel that way because you just don't like him 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The sheer tenacity of certain Blackwall haters is curious to observe. I just can't imagine spending so much of my energy lambasting a fictional character. Is it that you're bothered by the fact that some people not only forgive but romance him?

I'm not bothered by what people do. I just reply to people who reply to me since it is the polite thing to do. 

 

 

Blackwall was the reason he was there, Rainier feels that way because of self-guilt. You feel that way because you just don't like him 

No, I feel that way because it is the truth. Blackwall was there because of Rainer like you said, thus his death there is because of Rainier as well. If this was inspired by my dislike of Blackwall, I would be blaming him for it but I am not. Again, someone being at fault does not mean they are to blame. The people to blame for Blackwall's death are the Darkspawn and Blackwall himself for taking the hit meant for Rainier. 

[Ryzaki]

The sheer tenacity of certain Blackwall haters is curious to observe. I just can't imagine spending so much of my energy lambasting a fictional character. Is it that you're bothered by the fact that some people not only forgive but romance him?

 

Um..no? Why would that bother anyone? Do you get bothered by people doing things in games you disapprove of?

[Steelcan]

Yes it is. If Rainier was not there, Blackwall would not have been killed. Thus Blackwall's death is Rainier's fault. Even Rainier feels this way. 

and if the weather was slightly different maybe he wouldn't have died

 

I don't see anyone blaming Aeolus King of the Winds

[Hanako Ikezawa]

and if the weather was slightly different maybe he wouldn't have died

 

I don't see anyone blaming Aeolus King of the Winds

Why would anyone blame Aeolus? Thedas isn't his jurisdiction. Now the Lady of the Skies on the other hand...

[Ryzaki]

and if the weather was slightly different maybe he wouldn't have died

 

I don't see anyone blaming Aeolus King of the Winds

 

 

Yeah Blackwall is to blame for a lot of crap but blaming him for Rainer's death is a bit...huh.

 

Rainer could've avoided his death by going straight to the wardens and having Blackwall get the blood earlier if we're really going to throw around the blame ball.

[Steelcan]

Um..no? Why would that bother anyone? Do you get bothered by people doing things in games you disapprove of?

#chuckleheads

[AresKeith]

No, I feel that way because it is the truth. Blackwall was there because of Rainer like you said, thus his death there is because of Rainier as well. If this was inspired by my dislike of Blackwall, I would be blaming him for it but I am not. Again, someone being at fault does not mean they are to blame. The people to blame for Blackwall's death are the Darkspawn and Blackwall himself for taking the hit meant for Rainier. 

 

That still doesn't make sense because nobody is at fault for a random occurrence 

[AresKeith]

Um..no? Why would that bother anyone? Do you get bothered by people doing things in games you disapprove of?

 

Are you really asking that question on BSN? lol

[Ryzaki]

#chuckleheads

 

Eh I play muwahahah evil routes when I can I can't really judge anyone for what they do in a game.

 

I only judge them when they decide to get all self righteous about it.

 

Are you really asking that question on BSN? lol

 

HEY. BSN has some sanity.

 

Not a lot mind. But some!

[Addai]

Um..no? Why would that bother anyone? Do you get bothered by people doing things in games you disapprove of?

I'm curious as to the motivation for such dedicated hater behavior. Like, I can't imagine seeking out the threads of characters I dislike in order to post again and again about how much I dislike them. I could see it for a character like Loghain or Anders where it's plot events you're discussing, but just pure character hate is strange.

#chuckleheads

No darling, that's the elf haters, though the same question applies.

[Steelcan]

Eh I play muwahahah evil routes when I can I can't really judge anyone for what they do in a game.

 

I only judge them when they decide to get all self righteous about it.

I would never be self righteous

 

condescending, dismissive, rude, and sarcastic are all on the table though

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That still doesn't make sense because nobody is at fault for a random occurrence 

I wouldn't call a Darkspawn ambush while a Warden oversaw a potential recruit getting blood for the Joining random. Both groups had motives for being there. But we aren't getting anywhere with this. We don't even know what really happened. We only have Rainier's word about what happened and that's not worth much. 

[Steelcan]

I wouldn't call a Darkspawn ambush while a Warden oversaw a potential recruit getting blood for the Joining random. Both groups had motives for being there. But we aren't getting anywhere with this. We don't even know what really happened. We only have Rainier's word about what happened and that's not worth much. 

no real reason to doubt his account here

[Hanako Ikezawa]

no real reason to doubt his account here

Yes, because he has been nothing but honest with us. 

[AresKeith]

I wouldn't call a Darkspawn ambush while a Warden oversaw a potential recruit getting blood for the Joining random. Both groups had motives for being there. But we aren't getting anywhere with this. We don't even know what really happened. We only have Rainier's word about what happened and that's not worth much. 

 

And why would he lie about what happened there?

 

 

Yeah Blackwall is to blame for a lot of crap but blaming him for Rainer's death is a bit...huh.

 

Rainer could've avoided his death by going straight to the wardens and having Blackwall get the blood earlier if we're really going to throw around the blame ball.

 

Which wouldn't be much either since we learned in Origins that they have the recruits get the blood themselves