1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I accept every point of view if it's well argumented, I'm just tired of people repeating the same things like a broken record and who arent' interested in a debate.

I'd never go in the Josephine fan thread in order to quote people's sentences and force my point of view on them. I think Josie is a classist, she doesn't want to start an official relationship with Blackwall because he has a commoner background, so she just uses him for some good old fashioned sex in the barn and thank you for the flowers. I admit candidly that I dislike her more than she deserves because Blackwall likes her, but I swear this is the first time I'm writing that I don't like Josie on the web. I'm not interested in pestering her fans to death.

To be fair, you do the same in terms of repeating the same argument and not being interested in a debate. 

How is she a classist? She will romance an Elf, which is considered absolutely unacceptable to the higher up classes. Also, the underlined is factually incorrect. The two of them never get into a physical relationship. It stops at the flowers and notes.

[Basement Cat]

Yep I sound like a self righteous prig at times, I know, no wonder I love Blackwall xD

 

I accept every point of view if it's well argumented, I'm just tired of people repeating the same things like a broken record and who arent' interested in a debate.

I'd never go in the Josephine fan thread in order to quote people's sentences and force my point of view on them. I think Josie is a classist, she doesn't want to start an official relationship with Blackwall because he has a commoner background, so she just uses him for some good old fashioned sex in the barn and thank you for the flowers. I admit candidly that I dislike her more than she deserves because Blackwall likes her, but I swear this is the first time I'm writing that I don't like Josie on the web. I'm not interested in pestering her fans to death.

 

What Blackwall and Josephine engage in is 'courtly love'. They just exchange tokens and little notes, a glance at the most. The relationship is not consummated in any way in that sort of thing.

 

As for being a classist: she is going to inherit her family estate and business and she would not do anything that could hurt her family, such as having a scandalous affair with a commoner. So she is a classist more out of necessity than opinion.

 

Also, it's Blackwall himself who starts with the courtly love. He never pushes for more because he is well aware that it's an impossible love. He admires Josephine, but he doesn't really know her, and vice versa. They're both enamored with the glamour, not the actual person.

 

Fitting for people who spent most of their time in the land of masks.

[Hazegurl]

If people hate the character so much, why didnt they just leave him in jail. That way you dont have to deal with the awkward judgement.

I only freed him cause I thought I could murder knife him but what I got was so much more enjoyable. Slave Blackwall.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

What Blackwall and Josephine engage in is 'courtly love'. They just exchange tokens and little notes, a glance at the most. The relationship is not consummated in any way in that sort of thing.

 

As for being a classist: she is going to inherit her family estate and business and she would not do anything that could hurt her family, such as having a scandalous affair with a commoner. So she is a classist more out of necessity than opinion.

 

Also, it's Blackwall himself who starts with the courtly love. He never pushes for more because he is well aware that it's an impossible love. He admires Josephine, but he doesn't really know her, and vice versa. They're both enamored with the glamour, not the actual person.

 

Fitting for people who spent most of their time in the land of masks.

 

I never went very deep into this matter because I really don't enjoy it but I remember a banter I heard on youtube where Sera teases Blackwall about having seen the two of them doing 'stuff' and I remember the word 'squeezing' then I stopped listening -.-

 

I was wondering if perhaps they simply don't want to talk about a private thing with others, or if Josephine is afraid of Leliana's wrath (I understand they are lovers when Inquisition starts right?)

 

If it's like you say, that Josephine is classist out of necessity, what changes if the commoner is not Blackwall but a dwarf or qunari of elf inquisitor? Simply the IQ is the IQ?

[Basement Cat]

I never went very deep into this matter because I really don't enjoy it but I remember a banter I heard on youtube where Sera teases Blackwall about having seen the two of them doing 'stuff' and I remember the word 'squeezing' then I stopped listening -.-

 

I was wondering if perhaps they simply don't want to talk about a private thing with others, or if Josephine is afraid of Leliana's wrath (I understand they are lovers when Inquisition starts right?)

 

If instead it's like you say, that Josephine is classist out of necessity, what changes if the commoner is not Blackwall but a dwarf or qunari of elf inquisitor? Simply the IQ is the IQ?

The Inquisitor is the 'Herald of Andraste' and the leader of a powerful military organization. There's a certain prestige tied to it. (from a social perspective, it's a smart move for her to be with the Inquisitor. Gossipers gonna gossip and all that.)

 

Sera's mind is always in the gutter, so she's not the most reliable source. 

[Rinji the Bearded]

The Inquisitor is the 'Herald of Andraste' and the leader of a powerful military organization. There's a certain prestige tied to it. (from a social perspective, it's a smart move for her to be with the Inquisitor. Gossipers gonna gossip and all that.)

 

Sera's mind is always in the gutter, so she's not the most reliable source. 

 

Yeah, if you romance Blackwall, he has a conversation with Vivienne that basically confirms this:

• Vivienne: Well, you two seem to make each other happy.
• Blackwall: And? Surely, you're not ending this on a complimentary note.
• Vivienne: I was just wondering how you imagined your future. The Inquisitor and the-- well, whatever you are now.
• Blackwall: Ah, I see. You think we're a poor match.
• Blackwall: Lady Vivienne, that woman there will stand with Thedas' mightiest because of who she is.
• Blackwall: She may choose whomever she pleases, even an undeserving nobody.
• Blackwall: Envy her for her ability to love freely, but recognize that envy is what it is.

 

Being the new Jesus-like figure in Thedas certainly has its perks.  Josephine does not have such luxury, and both she and Blackwall know that.  The reason why Josephine can be more comfortably involved with the Inquisitor is because of the prestige behind such a title.  "My SO is the Herald of Andraste, you can't get much better than that!"

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I never went very deep into this matter because I really don't enjoy it but I remember a banter I heard on youtube where Sera teases Blackwall about having seen the two of them doing 'stuff' and I remember the word 'squeezing' then I stopped listening -.-

 

I was wondering if perhaps they simply don't want to talk about a private thing with others, or if Josephine is afraid of Leliana's wrath (I understand they are lovers when Inquisition starts right?)

It was confirmed both ingame and by some of the people involved in the game that Josephine and Rainier never become intimate. Sera's teasing was just that: teasing. 

 

Also both the writers of Leliana and Josephine confirmed that those two have never been lovers. 

[Iakus]

 

Also both the writers of Leliana and Josephine confirmed that those two have never been lovers. 

Even more than that, Josephine herself confirms it.

 

During one of my Inquisitor's talks with her, she refers to Leliana as being something fo a big sister to her.  When he pressed and asked if they had ever been involved she retorted with something like "Ugh!  What part of 'big sister' did you not understand?"

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Even more than that, Josephine herself confirms it.

 

During one of my Inquisitor's talks with her, she refers to Leliana as being something fo a big sister to her.  When he pressed and asked if they had ever been involved she retorted with something like "Ugh!  What part of 'big sister' did you not understand?"

Yep. Plus Leliana also somewhat confirms it when she states that Josephine has never been with anyone by calling her "an innocent in love". 

[Iakus]

I never went very deep into this matter because I really don't enjoy it but I remember a banter I heard on youtube where Sera teases Blackwall about having seen the two of them doing 'stuff' and I remember the word 'squeezing' then I stopped listening -.-

 

I was wondering if perhaps they simply don't want to talk about a private thing with others, or if Josephine is afraid of Leliana's wrath (I understand they are lovers when Inquisition starts right?)

 

If it's like you say, that Josephine is classist out of necessity, what changes if the commoner is not Blackwall but a dwarf or qunari of elf inquisitor? Simply the IQ is the IQ?

That banter was actually Sera trying to give Blackwall advice on how to seduce Josie. 

 

Peaches and bananas were involved.

 

Blackwall couldn't end that conversation soon enough

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

That banter was actually Sera trying to give Blackwall advice on how to seduce Josie. 

 

Peaches and bananas were involved.

 

Blackwall couldn't end that conversation soon enough

 

A friend on tumblr just found it for me:

 

• Sera: So are you going to squeeze up to her or not?
• Blackwall: What? squeeze up to who?
• Sera: Lady Josie. I’ve seen you, doing that knightly stuff.
• Blackwall: Maker, Sera! No, stay out of it.
• Sera: You’re all shy! what you think you can’t treat her right?
• Blackwall: No it’s not-
• Sera: I’ll show you. I just need a peach. A ripe one. Because if you do it right, ripe. Down there.
• Blackwall: Please, no peaches, ripe or otherwise.
• Sera: But I can’t teach you bananas! That’ll be like showing you swords. Oh, remember. Do not use it like a sword.
• Blackwall: How do I make this stop?

 

And then there is this: 

 

 

 

So, it's true, they never consummate and Blackwall keeps just courting her in a knightly way well aware that never will come of it. Omg I'm dying it's so bittersweet 

Definitely RAPIST is a world that well describes a man like Blackwall, yes, it applies just perfectly to a man like him.

I'm going to break something into tiny pieces and then cry in a corner.

[AniDragon]

Another thing to keep in mind about Josie/Blackwall is that, with the Inquisitor and Josie, regardless of class, the romance starts fairly early in the game, before her engagement to Lord Otranto. And even then, she puts the relationship on hold until she can call off the engagement.

 

By the time she becomes aware of Blackwall's affections, it's very likely that she's already engaged. Yes, it's an arranged match, and while she's willing to call off the engagement for a relationship she's already in, she's probably less willing to call it off for a crush and some flirting.

[Archerwarden]

Hey, so there's your actual definition of actual "stolen valor" according to a military newspaper AND the Stolen Valor Act itself - seeing as it seems to be your favorite (and inaccurate, in my opinion) phrase to throw around about Blackwall. You might note that what Rainier did doesn't actually fall into the category of stolen valor, particularly as defined by that section that I pasted in from the wiki about the Stolen Valor Act itself.

At no point does Rainier try to falsely claim miltary honors or awards or POW experiences or anything like that for the purposes of personal gain of any kind. He does lie about where he was during the Fifth Blight and is vague about things that Wardens should know, but none of that was done for the purpose of stealing the real Blackwall's glory or his honor or his valor for personal gain. Rainier took on Blackwall's identity to survive at the time AND in part to honor the man who had saved his life, whether you like hearing that or not.

At the winter palace you can find out the Real Blackwall earned a medal of valor. Since Thom assumed the identity of the real Blackwall he has assumed all that Blackwall is including the medal of valor. Thom calls himself Blackwall not Smith.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

At the winter palace you can find out the Real Blackwall earned a medal of valor. Since Thom assumed the identity of the real Blackwall he has assumed all that Blackwall is including the medal of valor. Thom calls himself Blackwall not Smith.

 

Valor is defined by medals or actions? A man is a man of valor only if his actions are officially recognized with a piece of metal? The real Blackwall earned his Wing of Valor for saving lives, Rainier under the name of Blackwall saved lives too, and it was he who did it, he was the one who fought darkspawn and demons to save lives, who cares if he did it under another name? On the contrary he could be considered stupid for not taking the merit for all his own heroic deeds, leaving all the merit to Blackwall xD

 

Valor is not made by a piece of scrap metal with a wing stamped on it.

[Archerwarden]

who cares if he did it under another name?

Thom is pretending to be another person, taking on his role as a Warden, taking on all his deeds. Would you feel the same if you met someone pretending to Bill Gates, Major Richard Winters? if you found out the person you had come to admire was Bill Smith and not Mr. Gates or Major Winters would you not be disappointed?

Oh moot point - you would probably find that attractive.

So you are saying that it is Ok for Thom to steal the real Blackwall's medal because Thom killed a few Darkspawn?

If you think a medal of valor is scrap metal than I am wasting my time with you.

Go ahead read your romance novels and romance Thom.

[GreenClover]

Thom didn't even know the real Blackwall had that medal. He didn't claim that medal as his own on purpose, and he didn't try to gain others respect through assuming Blackwall's identity. That's what is important. 

 

Thom is pretending to be another person, taking on his role as a Warden, taking on all his deeds. Would you feel the same if you met someone pretending to Bill Gates, Major Richard Winters? if you found out the person you had come to admire was Bill Smith and not Mr. Gates or Major Winters would you not be disappointed?

I'll be fine with it. I know almost nothing about Bill Gates and Major Winters (just as we know almost nothing about Warden Constable Blackwall), so I will judge that person by their own actions. And if I had come to admire them it was because of what they did during the time we've known each other, not because they are Bill Gates whom I know very little about. In the end I might feel slightly offended that they lied to me about their name, but I will not blame them for "stealing respect meant for another" because I held no respect for the person they claimed to be in the first place. 

[Xetykins]

Go ahead read your romance novels and romance Thom.

Done and done. Master Dennet is my witness.

[Archerwarden]

Thom didn't even know the real Blackwall had that medal. He didn't claim that medal as his own on purpose, and he didn't try to gain others respect through assuming Blackwall's identity. That's what is important. 
 
I'll be fine with it. I know almost nothing about Bill Gates and Major Winters (just as we know almost nothing about Warden Constable Blackwall), so I will judge that person by their own actions. And if I had come to admire them it was because of what they did during the time we've known each other, not because they are Bill Gates whom I know very little about. In the end I might feel slightly offended that they lied to me about their name, but I will not blame them for "stealing respect meant for another" because I held no respect for the person they claimed to be in the first place.

ROLF - I can not argue with illogical statements such as that or Mrs Thom Rainer. Barely anything you have responded to me is it based on sound reasoning and logic. I am not surprised you don't know who Major Winters or Mr. Gates. . When A logical intelligent argument comes along I will happily respond. But I am done with you.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

Thom is pretending to be another person, taking on his role as a Warden, taking on all his deeds. Would you feel the same if you met someone pretending to Bill Gates, Major Richard Winters? if you found out the person you had come to admire was Bill Smith and not Mr. Gates or Major Winters would you not be disappointed?

Oh moot point - you would probably find that attractive.

So you are saying that it is Ok for Thom to steal the real Blackwall's medal because Thom killed a few Darkspawn?

If you think a medal of valor is scrap metal than I am wasting my time with you.

Go ahead read your romance novels and romance Thom.

 

Yes, and Blackwall's role is not an easy nor a funny one to play, but a demanding one, one that requires sacrifice and courage. And if all you can do is belittle my arguments treating me like a shallow flibbertigibbet who's speaking with her ovaries this does you no credit, just so you know.

 

Blackwall's life was not a life of leisure but a life of self-sacrifice and a dangerous one, furthermore Thom didn't use the medal of valor for his own benefit, he lived alone in the woods to save people, he didn't spend his time strutting around the streets of Val Royeaux flaunting his medal to earn nobility's favors or to conquer ladies. Not a superdeal imho.

[AtreiyaN7]

At the winter palace you can find out the Real Blackwall earned a medal of valor. Since Thom assumed the identity of the real Blackwall he has assumed all that Blackwall is including the medal of valor. Thom calls himself Blackwall not Smith.

I know that the real Blackwall won the Silverite Wings of Valor - believe it's even mentioned by that fellow who announces everyone. Rainier is not the one making the claim if you want to be honest and accurate about it (but maybe you don't). It's solely the announcer doing his job and going down this lengthy list of all the important people and describing their accomplishments (or their importance). Furthermore, Rainier's false identity isn't even something that he wants publicized in any way. Or maybe you can explain in exactly what way he benefits from opening himself up to attention in the heart of the nation that wanted him dead?

Because there's no way on earth that Rainier was actually interested in drawing any kind of attention to himself (and I'm sure he wasn't thrilled to be there in the first place, being a wanted man in Orlais and all). Jesus, I really love all the pretzel logic that I see in here (and funny how you're talking about other people's allegedly flawed logic, btw). If this were a real case of stolen valor/honor, you do know that people who do it are purposely trying to get fame, honor, and possibly monetary benefits not due to them by claiming medals and/or other laurels that are not their own, right? Well, Rainier is interested in exactly none of that while using Blackwall's identity and never, ever claimed that he earned any of Warden-Constable Blackwall's awards.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

I'd be pissed off if he came to me claiming he was a warden and a great warrior, showing me his medal as a proof, and then at the first mission I discovered that he couldn't wield a sword and at the first demon he ran away screaming 'Mom where are you? Help!"

 

But since he IS a great warrior and he lived and acted like the real Blackwall and not just carrying his name to gain benefit from it, well, no, i'm not pissed off at all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Definitely RAPIST is a world that well describes a man like Blackwall, yes, it applies just perfectly to a man like him.

I agree that the people calling Rainier a rapist is going too far. They bring up rape by deception, which is a real thing, but the fact Rainier tries to keep you away but the Inquisitor keeps pushing for it makes him innocent of that crime. 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I'm not fond of Rainer but rapist makes me go

 

Not his fault he kept saying this is a bad idea and quizzy tried to rip his pants off.

[KaiserShep]

Thom is pretending to be another person, taking on his role as a Warden, taking on all his deeds. Would you feel the same if you met someone pretending to Bill Gates, Major Richard Winters? if you found out the person you had come to admire was Bill Smith and not Mr. Gates or Major Winters would you not be disappointed?

Oh moot point - you would probably find that attractive.

So you are saying that it is Ok for Thom to steal the real Blackwall's medal because Thom killed a few Darkspawn?

If you think a medal of valor is scrap metal than I am wasting my time with you.

Go ahead read your romance novels and romance Thom.

 

Thing is, if Blackwall decided to live off of the fame of some dead person's accolades, that's one thing, but that wasn't really what he was doing. He seemed content, or at least as content one could be, to live in obscurity helping people by himself. If the Inquisitor never approached him, he probably would have lived alone and unrecognized by everyone and possibly just die fighting monsters and bandits, at least with less of a fear of being executed before he could make some kind of difference.

[Bugsie]

Thing is, if Blackwall decided to live off of the fame of some dead person's accolades, that's one thing, but that wasn't really what he was doing. He seemed content, or at least as content one could be, to live in obscurity helping people by himself. If the Inquisitor never approached him, he probably would have lived alone and unrecognized by everyone and possibly just die fighting monsters and bandits, at least with less of a fear of being executed before he could make some kind of difference.

When the Inquistor first comes upon him he actually seems to freak out about you asking after Blackwall. Sounds like someone just wanting to go under the radar rather than be noticed let alone receive accolades.

Appropriate to say Blackwall's name is merely a mask, but not one that is used as part of the Grand Game, because that involves a level of exposure. It's obvious Rainier's face hasn't been completely forgotten amongst some in the Orlesian court (the guy who speaks with him in the hall) If it was truly accolades he sought he'd be actively flaunting the name. If you don't recruit him or if you ****** him off enough and he leaves he disappears as 'Blackwall', likely never to be seen again.