1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Bugsie]

Ha I was going to mention both Milgram and the Bystander effect, but I see you beat me too it, Cat. The phenomenon is both fascinating and somewhat terrifying too. I don't think the stats can be that generalised though.

[Catwall]

Ha I was going to mention both Milgram and the Bystander effect, but I see you beat me too it, Cat. The phenomenon is both fascinating and somewhat terrifying too. I don't think the stats can be that generalised though.

It's scary as hell, isn't it? Another good read that touches on the bystander effect would be "Modernity and the Holocaust" by Zygmunt Bauman, if you haven't already read that one. But again, seriously depressing.

[Kulyok]

Heh, this thread is going to be longer than Blackwall's character thread fairly soon.

 

Since you folks mentioned the bystander effect, may I just introduce this completely off-topic piece of fiction: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, where the themes raised in this topic are explored in detail. Like this:

 

"No they don't! You grew up in a post-World-War-Two society where 'I vas only followink orders' is something everyone knows the bad guys said. In the fifteenth century they would've called it honourable fealty." Harry's voice was rising. "Do you think you're, you're just genetically better than everyone who lived back then? Like if you'd been transported back to fifteenth-century London as a baby, you'd realize all on your own that burning cats was wrong, witch-burning was wrong, slavery was wrong, that every sentient being ought to be in your circle of concern?"

 

(and, yes, the fact that the anti-hero of this book is a balding dry and sarcastic mage who knows more than everyone else put together is a complete coincidence)

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

Exactly, intervening requires a lot of courage and those who do are heroes imho, anyway my numbers were referred to a particular city in a determined country.

 

The fact is that the violence Blackwall describes is there to tell us a context in which on one side there are the nobles with their fancy masks and their dirty Game, while outside their gates there's a context of extreme cultural and social degradation, poverty and starvation. 

 

The dialogue about the street dog is also there for another purpose imho, that is telling us how Thom's personal growth began. Learning is a fact of life. It may happen slowly or quickly, with or without suffering. He had a trauma that day and learned a lesson: the best way to let evil win is that the good people do nothing (this sentence is available on the official site). 

 

As an adult Rainier yielded to the temptation of getting involved in the Grand Game and got another huge trauma that helped him find the resolve to become the man he probably had always wanted to be and didn't even dare to dream he could become.

 

Cole is a spirit of empathy, he can read people's minds and hearts. He says: "You don't want to be Rainier, you killed Rainier, you ARE Blackwall!"

 

Cole's is not just an opinion, and we know that opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one and they all stink. Cole reads people's minds and hearts, Cole KNOWS.

 

P.S. I just wanted to apologize if I sound like someone who makes statements instead of just speaking, I think much of it depends from the fact that English is not my first language and I'm too concerned about using the correct verb and syntax to worry about the way I sound, and anyway my English is still not good enough to allow me get the idea of how I may sound even if I worry about it. 

Every time I write something it takes me a lot of time searching on google translator, urban dictionary and bab.la, and in the end all i'm concerned about is that I'm writing a sentence that means what I wanted it to mean ç_ç

 

[TheTurtle]

I'm not denying it's a real thing I'm simply saying that stat was not based in any real evidence. Also before we go deciding that someone is just sitting in a chair or hasn't experienced any thing like this let's take the time to remember that we don't know each other in real life.

I grew up in a really crappy neighborhood I've witnessed more than my fair share of crime including a family members murder. I'm not saying everyone has to be Rambo and jump in to stop a fight, but to not e even report it is very much an assholish thing to do and I've got no sympathy for those people. To say 99% of the world is like this is bunk and it's a very depressing and pessimistic view of the world.

[ejoslin]

I just get this terrible sinking feeling that the writers sort of abandoned his romance arc when they realised he wouldn't appeal to a lot of people, either looks or character wise.  I could be doing the writers a disservice here because there are other aspects of the character arc and the romance I really like, and there are obviously a number of people who do like him but it feels like something is missing and whilst I'm happy with the romance there are some wrinkles I'd liked to have seen ironed out.

 

I agree with this.  Blackwall was the first romance I did in the game and I was surprised after that after the shackled kiss that that was it.  There didn't feel like there was a lot of building up to it either. Then again, what happened after the sex scene, while I understand it story-wise, the timing of everything put me off from him completely as well. There could have at least been a second sex scene to make up what happened with the first.  The other romances I've done (Cullen, Solas, and Iron Bull) seem to be more complete.

 

I think Blackwall has the nicest kiss option; I'll give him that.  The animators did good work there.

[Scuttlebutt101]

There are supposed to be additional dialogue options to ask him about his past after the judgement, but they're bugged.

[TheLastArchivist]

Are people actually comparing Blackwall's behavior to that of nazis?

 

What on EARTH does one have to do with another?

 

Is this for real?

[Ieldra]

Are people actually comparing Blackwall's behavior to that of nazis?
 
What on EARTH does one have to do with another?
 
Is this for real?

I haven't seen this, but I wouldn't be surprised, Godwin's Law and all.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

I'm not denying it's a real thing I'm simply saying that stat was not based in any real evidence. Also before we go deciding that someone is just sitting in a chair or hasn't experienced any thing like this let's take the time to remember that we don't know each other in real life.

I grew up in a really crappy neighborhood I've witnessed more than my fair share of crime including a family members murder. I'm not saying everyone has to be Rambo and jump in to stop a fight, but to not e even report it is very much an assholish thing to do and I've got no sympathy for those people. To say 99% of the world is like this is bunk and it's a very depressing and pessimistic view of the world.

 

Maker -.-

 

It's not my view, it's a statistic I read on an article based on a camera in a metro station. I reported it to reply to the people who keep accusing a poor scared kid of being a pro-animal-abuse monster because he didn't intervene to save the dog. 

 

Accusing a frightened kid of such thing is simply UNACCEPTABLE since the majority of adults don't intervene when they wiitness a crime, and not because they are arseholes but because of the reasons other people explained better than I did. 

 

I hope this time I spoke clearly, that I didn't offend any cathegory nor sounded like a pessimist or patronizing or else.

 

 

Are people actually comparing Blackwall's behavior to that of nazis?

 

What on EARTH does one have to do with another?

 

Is this for real?

 

The most polite thing that comes to my mind, if it's true, is that these people are a bit confused.

[Ieldra]

I hope this time I spoke clearly, that I didn't offend any cathegory nor sounded like a pessimist or patronizing or else.

You know...."Some people try very hard to be offended" (Saemus Dumar, DA2). Not that I think that this applies to DalyaTheTurtle - he simply misunderstood - but at some point you have to live with the fact that someone will always take what you say the wrong way.

[TheLastArchivist]

I haven't seen this, but I wouldn't be surprised, Godwin's Law and all.

 

*reads article*

 

LOL

 

I didn't even know this existed.

This made my day!

 

[Ryzaki]

Indeed so. I happen to have personal experience with both, meaning I've both intervened in a violent situation and walked by. I'm not proud of the latter, but intervening takes more courage than you'd like to think, especially if there is a possibility the offender might turn on you. Also, you wouldn't believe how easily you can be intimidated. It takes real effort to get past that. I'd go so far to say that someone without personal experience has no business judging the situation.

 

Yeah one of the problems with that little nugget is you don't know anybody through this computer screen so...yeah.

 

That said is anyone in this thread actually blaming Rainer for the dog incident as a child? Or is that another easy strawman to burn down like the stalker comment?

[Basement Cat]

Yeah one of the problems with that little nugget is you don't know anybody through this computer screen so...yeah.

 

That said is anyone in this thread actually blaming Rainer for the dog incident as a child? Or is that another easy strawman to burn down like the stalker comment?

Hanako

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hanako

No. I blame him for not doing anything, which is true. I don't blame him for the animal abuse, since he had nothing to do with stringing it up. 

[Ryzaki]

Hanako

 

I haven't seen him do that in this thread?

 

Edit: I spoke too goddamn soon.

 

Good lord what a shitty argument. Even if you want to discount the bystander effect (not sure why) he was a child it makes plenty of sense that he went home and was too scared to do anything.

[The Hierophant]

Some funny stuff.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I haven't seen him do that in this thread?

 

Edit: I spoke too goddamn soon.

 

Good lord what a shitty argument. Even if you want to discount the bystander effect (not sure why) he was a child it makes plenty of sense that he went home and was too scared to do anything.

I never said it didn't make sense for him not to do anything. It's just not a valid excuse. 

[Ryzaki]

I never said it didn't make sense for him not to do anything. It's just not a valid excuse. 

 

So you're blaming a child for being scared and making a decision not to intervene. Charming.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So you're blaming a child for being scared and making a decision not to intervene. Charming.

I am blaming someone for what they did, or didn't do in this case. Rainier did not help in any way, shape, or form, thus he is at fault for not helping. 

[Ryzaki]

I am blaming someone for what they did. Rainier did not help in any way, shape, or form, thus he is at fault for not helping. 

 

 Do you always give your money to beggers in the street? If you don't are you responsible for them not eating that night?

 

The only people to blame for what happened to the dog are the people that hung the dog.

 

Trying to say it's Rainer's fault the dog died when he did nothing to set those events in motion is laughable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 Do you always give your money to beggers in the street? If you don't are you responsible for them not eating that night?

 

The only people to blame for what happened to the dog are the people that hung the dog.

 

Trying to say it's Rainer's fault the dog died when he did nothing to set those events in motion is laughable.

Yes I do actually. 

 

Again, I don't blame the dog's death on Rainier. I blame him for doing nothing, which is exactly what he does. Blame is defined as "assign responsibility for a fault or wrong". Not helping those who need help is a fault. 

[ejoslin]

Excuse for what?  You only need an excuse if you've done something wrong.  And a child not facing down some cruel adults whom all other adults are also ignoring is not a person sitting and doing nothing when they could be helping.  

 

I don't even like Blackwall, but I'm actually amazed at what is put on him.  There's enough to dislike about him without making things up.

[Milan92]

 

Again, I don't blame the dog's death on Rainier. I blame him for doing nothing, which is exactly what he does.

 

But thats basically the same. You assume he could have saved the dog if he had done something.

[AresKeith]

I am blaming someone for what they did, or didn't do in this case. Rainier did not help in any way, shape, or form, thus he is at fault for not helping. 

 

That's just as bad as faulting him for Blackwall's death