1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But thats basically the same. You assume he could have saved the dog if he had done something.

It certainly wouldn't have hurt. Worst case, the same result as doing nothing. Best case, victim is saved and cruel people are punished.

[KaiserShep]

What's the difference? It's just another thing he regrets and he was going to get himself executed to save someone else.

 

Mercifully, the game gives us a pretty simple solution: if it's that much of a problem, let the Orlesians keep him.

[ejoslin]

It certainly wouldn't have hurt. Worst case, the same result as doing nothing. Best case, victim is saved and cruel people are punished.

 

Actually, the worst case is the people who enjoy animal cruelty also enjoy being cruel to a child and are mad for him interfering with their fun.  If he were an adult, yes, then you could put something on him for not at least trying to help.  But a child?  No way.

[Milan92]

It certainly wouldn't have hurt. Worst case, the same result as doing nothing. Best case, victim is saved and cruel people are punished.

 

The most likely scenario would have been where the dog would have died anyway and young Blackwall gets the crap beaten out of him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Actually, the worst case is the people who enjoy animal cruelty also enjoy being cruel to a child and are mad for him interfering with their fun.  If he were an adult, yes, then you could put something on him for not at least trying to help.  But a child?  No way.

The most likely scenario would have been where the dog would have died anyway and young Blackwall gets the crap beaten out of him.

Children are taught one thing when they see something bad happening: get an adult. The street urchins were also children so would not be able to do anything against whoever Rainier got, whether that be his father or a local authority. If the latter, they wouldn't even be able to trace it to Rainier. And it's not like Rainier was a toddler when this happened, but is old enough to know all this. But no, he just decides to let suffering occur to save his own skin. Thus he is as liable for fault as an adult would be. 

[Milan92]

Children are taught one thing when they see something bad happening: get an adult. The street urchins were also children so would not be able to do anything against whoever Rainier got, whether that be his father or a local authority. If the latter, they wouldn't even be able to trace it to Rainier. And it's not like Rainier was a toddler when this happened, but is old enough to know all this. But no, he just decides to let suffering occur to save his own skin. Thus he is as liable for fault as an adult would be. 

 

Do those "rules" apply though in Thedas? Don't forgot that its an fantasy medieval setting. Not modern day.

[Ryzaki]

Yes I do actually. 

 

Again, I don't blame the dog's death on Rainier. I blame him for doing nothing, which is exactly what he does. Blame is defined as "assign responsibility for a fault or wrong". Not helping those who need help is a fault. 

 

All of them? Every single charity you hear about?

 

Oh good. I need 500 bucks or I'll be kicked out of my apartment. I'll give you my paypal so you can send me the funds!

 

My mind is so full of wut right now.

 

People like this exist? I suppose it's the dog's fault too for wandering too close to the thugs in the first place? Since we're slinging blame around.

 

 

Excuse for what?  You only need an excuse if you've done something wrong.  And a child not facing down some cruel adults whom all other adults are also ignoring is not a person sitting and doing nothing when they could be helping.  

 

I don't even like Blackwall, but I'm actually amazed at what is put on him.  There's enough to dislike about him without making things up.

 

Just this.

 

I can't believe someone can actually seriously make this argument.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do those "rules" apply though in Thedas? Don't forgot that its an fantasy medieval setting. Not modern day.

Considering that getting an adult went through Rainier's head, I'd say children in Thedas are taught the same or something similar yes. 

[ejoslin]

Children are taught one thing when they see something bad happening: get an adult. The street urchins were also children so would not be able to do anything against whoever Rainier got, whether that be his father or a local authority. If the latter, they wouldn't even be able to trace it to Rainier. And it's not like Rainier was a toddler when this happened, but is old enough to know all this. But no, he just decides to let suffering occur to save his own skin. Thus he is as liable for fault as an adult would be. 

 

In your world, children may be taught that, but again, he was a child.  You can assume either his parents were there and ignoring it or they were not there.  And local authorities?  Perhaps he should have called 911?  Oh, wait.  

 

I think his immediately discounting the help of the Chevalier who helped him win the tourney was far more of an indictment of his character than his inaction when as a terrified child.  Both haunted him.

[KaiserShep]

It's funny that a story presented by a character as an example of something he deeply regrets is being argued about. I mean, Blackwall himself admits that this was a sh*tty thing he did, and that people should be better than this.

[Ryzaki]

It's funny that a story presented by a character as an example of something he deeply regrets is being argued about. I mean, Blackwall himself admits that this was a sh*tty thing he did, and that people should be better than this.

 

No one's saying he can't regret it or the story is wrong. We're arguing if it's his fault.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's funny that a story presented by a character as an example of something he deeply regrets is being argued about. I mean, Blackwall himself admits that this was a sh*tty thing he did, and that people should be better than this.

Well, some think Rainier shouldn't be blamed for anything. There are some who try to explain away literally everything he did. 

 

 

In your world, children may be taught that, but again, he was a child.  You can assume either his parents were there and ignoring it or they were not there.  And local authorities?  Perhaps he should have called 911?  Oh, wait.  

 

I think his immediately discounting the help of the Chevalier who helped him win the tourney was far more of an indictment of his character than his inaction when as a terrified child.  Both haunted him.

We know there are guards in the towns and villages, so I don't get why you are saying that wasn't an option. 

[AresKeith]

 

Well, some think Rainier shouldn't be blamed for anything. There are some who try to explain away literally everything he did. 

 

The same way some try to fault him for everything

 

That works both ways

[KaiserShep]

You know, it's also his fault that his beard clips into his armor. If only he'd just look up when talking.

[ejoslin]

 

Well, some think Rainier shouldn't be blamed for anything. There are some who try to explain away literally everything he did. 

 

 

We know there are guards in the towns and villages, so I don't get why you are saying that wasn't an option. 

 

 

Because you have to leave your house to get to them.

 

Look, again, we're talking a scared child who is witnessing something absolutely horrific.  The normal reaction to that for a child is to hide.  And it haunts him and he regrets it.  But I don't blame him for it.  Had he been older, yes, a trained fighter who would turn his back on animal cruelty would be as bad as the torturers.  But a child?  No.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The same way some try to fault him for everything

 

That works both ways

I don't fault him for everything though. I have defended him from some like being accused of being a rapist and applaud some things he does like turning himself in eventually.

[Basement Cat]

Well, some think Rainier shouldn't be blamed for anything. There are some who try to explain away literally everything he did. 

And there are some who take his misdeeds so seriously that they spoiled the big twist about him for a whole lot of people because their tender sensibilities were offended.

 

The fictional actions of a fictional character caused someone to spoil the real enjoyment of real people.

[AresKeith]

I don't fault him for everything though. I have defended him from some like being accused of being a rapist and applaud some things he does like turning himself in eventually.

 

I didn't say you fault him for everything, just used a blanket statement against you

 

However faulting him for the dog and Blackwall's death is just silly

[ejoslin]

I don't fault him for everything though. I have defended him from some like being accused of being a rapist and applaud some things he does like turning himself in eventually.

 

I outright dislike Blackwall for many reasons, but his inaction as a child is something I don't dislike him for.  I pity him for that ghost.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because you have to leave your house to get to them.

 

Look, again, we're talking a scared child who is witnessing something absolutely horrific.  The normal reaction to that for a child is to hide.  And it haunts him and he regrets it.  But I don't blame him for it.  Had he been older, yes, a trained fighter who would turn his back on animal cruelty would be as bad as the torturers.  But a child?  No.

He was outside when he saw it then goes into his house. He wasn't inside watching from a window. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

 

And there are some who take his misdeeds so seriously that they spoiled the big twist about him for a whole lot of people because their tender sensibilities were offended.

 

The fictional actions of a fictional character caused someone to spoil the real enjoyment of real people.

So people can't talk about things in the game in the section of the forums that allows things in the game to be talked about? I'm sorry I spoiled things, but it was in a spoiler-allowed section. 

[Hellion Rex]

What's the difference? It's just another thing he regrets and he was going to get himself executed to save someone else.

 

Hold up though. I have a question on something that I thought was not made explicitly clear.

 

Did turning himself in at Val Roy save the other guy, or were they both to be sent to the chopping block?

 

I had assumed the latter, cause I thought they were both technically guilty

[ejoslin]

He was outside when he saw it then goes into his house. He wasn't inside watching from a window. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

 

 

I think you have paid more attention to the dialog than I have.  Aside from my first playthrough when I had my inq romance him, I don't pay much attention to him at all.  My impression from that story is that he was a child, he heard a dog being strung up, and instead of jumping in and helping, he hid.  His reaction is the reaction most children would have.

 

I think the adults who were around who were ignoring it were far more to blame than a child, who really was powerless in that situation.  He blames himself, but again, I don't blame him.

[Basement Cat]

Hold up though. I have a question on something that I thought was not made explicitly clear.

 

Did turning himself in at Val Roy save the other guy, or were they both to be sent to the chopping block?

 

I had assumed the latter, cause I thought they were both technically guilty

I think the other guy was saved on account of 'just following orders'. That's the impression I got from that scene. Either way he is never mentioned again. Plothole?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Hold up though. I have a question on something that I thought was not made explicitly clear.

 

Did turning himself in at Val Roy save the other guy, or were they both to be sent to the chopping block?

 

I had assumed the latter, cause I thought they were both technically guilty

 

It's assumed that it cleared the other guy's name, I think.  I don't know if it was actually ever confirmed, but Rainier very clearly explains that Mornay was only following orders and the officer present at the execution then asked Rainier for the man who gave the order.

 

Would have sucked if Mornay got the noose anyway.

[KaiserShep]

Hold up though. I have a question on something that I thought was not made explicitly clear.

 

Did turning himself in at Val Roy save the other guy, or were they both to be sent to the chopping block?

 

I had assumed the latter, cause I thought they were both technically guilty

It would've been funny if he basically gave himself up on the spot, and then the guy says "OK, hang them both!"