1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

So if someone has flaws and makes mistakes hasn't the right to have his opinions and ethical code? What should he do? Walk head down, tail between legs, yes boss, you're right boss, everything you say boss... that would be good for your ego I guess but it doesn't work like that, sorry. 

 

They lose the moral high ground when they had a bunch of children slaughtered for gold and ran away to avoid the fallout letting other people take the fall is my point.

 

No one's saying he has to be a yes man but I do believe that's what people want because they dislike a character you do if it makes you feel better. He could've just did what Bull does at low disapproval. Simply refuse to speak to you and then say it's not working out. But that's not morally superior enough I suppose.

[Xetykins]

Eh he's hard no matter who you pick. (Even when it's Josephine). But basically if you get his disapproval high there's some pretty lulzy (I don't like to talk about people behind their backs and you're a tyrant and a self serving thug) remarks. Downright hilarious in hindsight really.
 
Not to mention Bull's banter with him if you leave his men behind to die afterwards. I do love how Bull calls him out on it if he's revealed though.

Then that is very strange because his approval just goes up and up with me. And i dont recall morally questionable instances that that disapproves. Except for one judgement on the sheep flinging avvar lord where i apparently set him free for picking that funny option heh.

[Ryzaki]

Then that is very strange because his approval just goes up and up with me. And i dont recall morally questionable instances that that disapproves. Except for one judgement on the sheep flinging avvar lord where i apparently set him free for picking that funny option heh.

 

Well yeah you do thinks he agrees with. I didn't

 

Most of my judgements got either ignored or slightly approved from him by my recollections though.

[dgcatanisiri]

My thing is that with the lying, after the truth comes out... Honestly, I don't see how the Inquisition can trust him. I mean, I see the timeline of the game being at least a year in length. So he spends the better part of a year lying to the Inquisition about who he is, what is past is, impersonating a real person, impersonating a real person who was a member of a somewhat powerful organization, and then using the authority of that position in the Inquisition's name... All these pieces add up to a person who I don't see how the members of the Inquisition could trust because of all the lies he stacks on top of one another in the time he's with them.

 

I mean, argue about opportunities for redemption all you want, but the Inquisition is now one of those parties who he's injured in the course of this. I don't see him really having a place within it once the truth comes out.

[AresKeith]

Eh my issue with Blackwall is he's too self righteous for someone with such a dodgy past. It's like being lectured about smoking by someone with a lit cigarette in hand.

 

To be fair, that doesn't really change the way he is now (while lying about who he is) which is why he's like 

[Ryzaki]

To be fair, that doesn't really change the way he is now (while lying about who he is) which is why he's like 

 

He could tone down the condescension though. I wish the PC could treat him with such scorn and derision you get close during the prison scene but maybe it's because I romanced him but it felt swept under the rug once his judgement was done with. You only really get close by conscripting him and why on earth would I do that everyone knows he's not Blackwall at that point.

[Addai]

The Orlesians do this all the time. They're only pretending to be outraged by an "atrocity" because it's politic to do so, for Celene supporters for obvious reasons and for Gaspard because of his chevalier honor. Hypocrites, all of them. And the only reason anyone at all cares is because the family had noble blood. If it was an elven family or even peasants and chevaliers doing the killing, no one would even notice or care why it happened.

The men who put a sword through a child's body each made decisions to do so. Orders? Bullshit. For the ones who just took part in the attack but didn't personally kill children, I do feel for them, since they got the worst of it.

None of this excuses Blackwall but some perspective is sorely needed on this topic. The Orlesian nobility are terrible people and they revel in that fact. Until they give up the Game, there will be more Blackwalls and his victims.

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

They lose the moral high ground when they had a bunch of children slaughtered for gold and ran away to avoid the fallout letting other people take the fall is my point.

 

No one's saying he has to be a yes man but I do believe that's what people want because they dislike a character you do if it makes you feel better. He could've just did what Bull does at low disapproval. Simply refuse to speak to you and then say it's not working out. But that's not morally superior enough I suppose.

 

Everyone in your party has lied and/or killed people, should they all be in awe of the flawless Herald of Andraste and feel like small insignificant pieces of ****? 

 

Rainier was responsible of the death of a family, ok. Callier was a total bastard so let's say he killed 5 innocents that are Callier's wife and the 4 children^ Ok.

 

In about 5 years as a warden I guess he must have saved hundreds of people, and some other hundreds in Redcliffe when it was raining demons.

 

If you kill someone who dedicates his life to saving people you kill those he would have saved in the future.

[LadyJaneGrey]

...so not about Corypheus then?

[Br3admax]

This thread is about people in real life judging Blackwall, and last I checked, none of us are Orlesian. 

[AtreiyaN7]

Blackwall does say that the Inquisition will look corrupt if you pick the Josephine option, but we sort of hashed this out in the other thread.

 

While people might be ticked off/taken aback that he would lash out the way that he does during the judgment instead of oozing gratitude/obeisance, I can understand where he's coming from. He's extremely upset because he ended up putting the Inquisitor in a position where others can accuse her (or him) of being corrupt by pulling strings/sending in soldiers/doing something shady - the very thing that he was trying to avoid by leaving in the first place.

 

What he says is going to comes across as him lashing out at the Inquisitor to most people, I imagine. However, it should be pretty clear that he's not actually angry with the Inquisitor - he's really p---ed off at himself for having put the Inquisitor in a bad situation. So he says what he says, and it might sound like he's being self-righteous and judgmental to the player, but that's clearly not his intent - it's just him expressing his self-loathing/regret/frustration at having made someone he cares about/respects (depending on your relationship) take potentially questionable actions.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I do not hate him. Guy's trying to turn a new leaf and I respect that. Besides, I bet about half of the inner-circle have just as bad a past or worse.

 

-- Solas: is the reason Cory is up to what he's doing.

-- Sera: thief acting out petty revenge fantasies.

-- Cole: killed many innocents as a despair-demon.

-- Varric: helped keep Anders and Merrill hidden, stirred up trouble around Kirkwall with Hawke.

-- Cullen: helped annul the Kirkwall Circle.

-- Leliana: was an assassin-seductress under Marjolaine.

 

... yeah, Blackwall is far from my favorite, but I am not about to single him out for anything. 

[Sabreenei]

Eh my issue with Blackwall is he's too self righteous for someone with such a dodgy past. It's like being lectured about smoking by someone with a lit cigarette in hand.

 

To me it's more like being lectured by someone who chain smoked for twenty years, but then set the bedroom on fire while smoking in bed and now  wants everyone to quit smoking and disapproves of anything to do with the habit.

[mordy_was_here]

 I do not hate him. Guy's trying to turn a new leaf and I respect that. Besides, I bet about half of the inner-circle have just as bad a past or worse.

 

-- Solas: is the reason Cory is up to what he's doing.

-- Sera: thief acting out petty revenge fantasies.

-- Cole: killed many innocents as a despair-demon.

-- Varric: helped keep Anders and Merrill hidden, stirred up trouble around Kirkwall with Hawke.

-- Cullen: helped annul the Kirkwall Circle.

-- Leliana: was an assassin-seductress under Marjolaine.

 

... yeah, Blackwall is far from my favorite, but I am not about to single him out for anything. 

 

Isabela: either ordered or allowed slaves to be thrown from a ship, plus that whole Tome of Koslun thing

 

Sten: Well, we've covered that already, no?

 

Zevran: killed people for money/prestige/the crows/whatever

 

Alistair: throws a fit and leaves (one of three grey wardens during the blight) if you refuse to execute someone

 

Merrill: got her entire clan killed

 

 

just thought I'd throw that out there, but blackwall lied to my face how dare heeeeee nobody lies to my face and lives

[Abyss108]

Most of the other characters do bad things for the right reasons or because they believe it to be correct or because they had very limited choices. 

 

No one has just decided to become a murderer for the money.

[Br3admax]

No one has just decided to become a murderer for the money.

Even if this was true, which it isn't, Blackwall did. 

[mordy_was_here]

Most of the other characters do bad things for the right reasons or because they believe it to be correct or because they had very limited choices. 

 

No one has just decided to become a murderer for the money.

 

short of merrill and maybe cullen or varric (and cole, if you squint and turn your head sideways), can you go over that list and explain what was right about what they did? I'm genuinely curious, no sarcasm intended.

[Xetykins]

Most of the other characters do bad things for the right reasons or because they believe it to be correct or because they had very limited choices.

No one has just decided to become a murderer for the money.

It felt so wrong reading this post for some reason.
Are you saying that the rest are excused even when they did sooo much more killing ( Some of them pretty monumental) because there's no money involved?

[Ryzaki]

Everyone in your party has lied and/or killed people, should they all be in awe of the flawless Herald of Andraste and feel like small insignificant pieces of ****? 

 

Rainier was responsible of the death of a family, ok. Callier was a total bastard so let's say he killed 5 innocents that are Callier's wife and the 4 children^ Ok.

 

In about 5 years as a warden I guess he must have saved hundreds of people, and some other hundreds in Redcliffe when it was raining demons.

 

If you kill someone who dedicates his life to saving people you kill those he would have saved in the future.

 

It's cute how you keep trying to make this about me trying to think he should have low self esteem. (which he actually does have despite the self righteousness) *pats*

 

It's okay for someone to dislike your husbando dearie.
 

[dragonflight288]

I've had two playthroughs so far. The first one I brought him back in and convicted him to actually join the Wardens once Corypheus was dealt with. The second playthrough I left him to his fate. 

[Abyss108]

short of merrill and maybe cullen or varric (and cole, if you squint and turn your head sideways), can you go over that list and explain what was right about what they did? I'm genuinely curious, no sarcasm intended.

 

I meant the other LIs who have done bad things in their past. Eg Zevram was sold to the crows with no choice, Anders did what he did to free mages, etc. Nobody else just decided to murder a family for coin. Thinking more about it, I guess some like Isabella have done bad things, but not child murder.

 

Even if this was true, which it isn't, Blackwall did. 

 

I meant apart from Blackwall...

[mordy_was_here]

I meant the other LIs who have done bad things in their past. Eg Zevram was sold to the crows with no choice, Anders did what he did to free mages, etc. Nobody else just decided to murder a family for coin. Thinking more about it, I guess some like Isabella have done bad things, but not child murder.

 

 

I see, fair enough. 

[Abyss108]

It felt so wrong reading this post for some reason.
Are you saying that the rest are excused even when they did sooo much more killing ( Some of them pretty monumental) because there's no money involved?

 It would help if I knew which characters you are referring to? But in general, yes, I believe the reason they killed matters a lot. Afterall , the protagonist kills a lot of people too.

[Br3admax]

Ah, I misunderstood. That aside: 

 

Isabela? Because she could. 

Zevran? Because he wanted to. He can make whatever excuse he wants. 

Sten? Because he has anger issues. He even admits he attacked for no reason.And there were children there.

 

And all the rest use stupid reasons to justify their actions. Blackwall's no worse than them. 

[Abyss108]

Ah, I misunderstood. That aside: 

 

Isabela? Because she could. 

Zevran? Because he wanted to. He can make whatever excuse he wants. 

Sten? Because he has anger issues. He even admits he attacked for no reason.And there were children there.

 

And all the rest use stupid reasons to justify their actions. Blackwall's no worse than them. 

 

I feel the same way about Sten as I do Blackwall, but at least I'm not supposed to find him romantic. Zevran hardly had a choice about being sold to the crows when he was 8, and I doubt they would just let him walk away. I don't recall Isabella murdering any children?