1018 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

I meant the other LIs who have done bad things in their past. Eg Zevram was sold to the crows with no choice, Anders did what he did to free mages, etc. Nobody else just decided to murder a family for coin. Thinking more about it, I guess some like Isabella have done bad things, but not child murder.
 

 
I meant apart from Blackwall...

For Zev, i give you that. For Izy, the slaves she killed and kirkwall counts for adults and children. For Anders...well that chantry must be full of adults and children alike. So for you its ok because they did not get paid?

[Abyss108]

For Zev, i give you that. For Izy, the slaves she killed and kirkwall counts for adults and children. For Anders...well that chantry must be full of adults and children alike. So for you its ok because they did not get paid?

 

I honestly don't remember Isabella killing slaves... She's in Kirkwall because someone is mad at her for FREEING slaves. Did I miss something? Its been a while since I played DA2...

 

Assuming Anders killed children in that explosion, then yes I view it as better than Blackwall. Murder to create a better world is better than murder for coin. And I say Anders is better, even though he's my most hated character in the entire series.

[Ryzaki]

Most of our companions are pretty crappy people. I'm not sure that's in question.

 

It just depends on whether you feel their good points make up for their flaws

[Br3admax]

Handlebar mustache swag.

[Hazegurl]

Didn't Isabela dump a cargo of slaves into the sea? Not sure but either way I don't recall her giving me the stink eye over every immoral choice. She actually had more of a "not my business" vibe about her.

[Xetykins]

 
Assuming Anders killed children in that explosion, then yes I view it as better than Blackwall. Murder to create a better world is better than murder for coin. And I say Anders is better,

Oooooook....... *slowly backs away*

[MrsHairyMcLummox]

It's cute how you keep trying to make this about me trying to think he should have low self esteem. (which he actually does have despite the self righteousness) *pats*

 

It's okay for someone to dislike your husbando dearie.
 

 

And it's ok if I keep pointing out that he's a far better man than those who dislike him, meaning their Inquisitors of course

[mordy_was_here]

I honestly don't remember Isabella killing slaves... She's in Kirkwall because someone is mad at her for FREEING slaves. Did I miss something? Its been a while since I played DA2...

 

 

Comics.

[Ryzaki]

And it's ok if I keep pointing out that he's a far better man than those who dislike him, meaning their Inquisitors of course

 

Hey some of my quizzies are saints! How dare you ma'am! *hmphs*

 

Comics.

 

*hisses like an angry cat*

 

Yes I'm one of those people.

 

Stupid Kai Leng eating Anderson's cereal and pissing in his vases.

[Bugsie]

Nah he's not a hero.

 

Just a man with an epic beard and battle skillz.

 

Plus, I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of muscle tone under that gambeson. 

[mordy_was_here]

 

Stupid Kai Leng eating Anderson's cereal and pissing in his vases.

 

Stupid sexy Kai Leng!

[Catwall]

Nah he's not a hero.

 

Just a man with an epic beard and battle skillz.

 

Plus, I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of muscle tone under that gambeson. 

*cough*

Spoiler

Not to mention the most ride-able beard in the game.

*cough*

[AutumnWitch]

This issue I have with this is one is his redemption fair? What I mean is, if he had been caught after the crime he would have been jailed or hung right away and never have the chance to redeem himself? If we overlook this is that fair to all of the other people who are thrown in jail/hung for their crimes?  If we look past his past and say he redeemed himself what do we say to the people we execute as the Inquisitor? Do we give them all a chance to redeem themselves? Where do we draw the line?

[Scuttlebutt101]

Nah he's not a hero.

 

Just a man with an epic beard and battle skillz.

 

Plus, I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of muscle tone under that gambeson. 

You make a good point *nods reflectively*

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I have to admit, though, he is pretty fun to pile the hate on. At least other companions have something badass about themselves to hang their hats on and somewhat make up for their transgressions in the eyes of the player. Blackwall does not, and it makes him an easy target. When the truth is out, he is pretty much reduced to a cosplay artist -- LOL!

 

He reminds me of The Soldier from TF2 -- his enlistment into the military was rejected, so he pretended to be a war veteran and made himself fake medals for his fake service.

[Memnon]

One thing I never understood about Blackwall's story is this: after we discovered who he truly was, why didn't we have an option make him go through the Joining ritual to try to become an actual Grey Warden. I mean, I think we even find Darkspawn Blood and a Joining Chalice while doing his own personal mission, and we have a bona fide Grey Warden leader in Stroud at Skyfall who can perform the ritual.

[jellobell]

One thing I never understood about Blackwall's story is this: after we discovered who he truly was, why didn't we have an option make him go through the Joining ritual to try to become an actual Grey Warden. I mean, I think we even find Darkspawn Blood and a Joining Chalice while doing his own personal mission, and we have a bona fide Grey Warden leader in Stroud at Skyfall who can perform the ritual.

Because that'd be pretty stupid when Corypheus can mess with the heads of Grey Wardens. You can order him to undergo the joining but it's postponed until after Corypheus is defeated.

[Memnon]

Because that'd be pretty stupid when Corypheus can mess with the heads of Grey Wardens. You can order him to undergo the joining but it's postponed until after Corypheus is defeated.

That's a fair point, but Stroud seemed immune ... not necessarily immune, but he knew it wasn't the real Calling. Having that knowledge going into the Joining should put Blackwall in the same boat as Stroud. But yes, I can see how you might want to wait until Corypheus is out of the picture before making more Grey Wardens

[Bugsie]

 I have to admit, though, he is pretty fun to pile the hate on. At least other companions have something badass about themselves to hang their hats on and somewhat make up for their transgressions in the eyes of the player. Blackwall does not, and it makes him an easy target. When the truth is out, he is pretty much reduced to a cosplay artist -- LOL!

 

He reminds me of The Soldier from TF2 -- his enlistment into the military was rejected, so he pretended to be a war veteran and made himself fake medals for his fake service.

Except he was a soldier and rose even as a Free Marcher in the Orlesian army to level of Captain.  A lowly free marcher.  He might be a liar about being Blackwall but he's never lied about his skills.  In fact he doesn't need to lie about his skills.  Just have him in your party going into a fight pretty much illustrates that for you.

 

Your definition of badass obviously differs significantly from mine.

[gombie]

I dont mind blackwall, I always roleplay my canon character as a bit of a evil/knob (This time my inquistor is a chantry fanatic who demands worship for his divine blessing)

 

Hes just so ****** boring.

[Ryzaki]

Because that'd be pretty stupid when Corypheus can mess with the heads of Grey Wardens. You can order him to undergo the joining but it's postponed until after Corypheus is defeated.

 

Yep it'd just make the arbor wilds if you brought him...

 

awkward.

 

Also I just remembered the main reason in Skyrim I sided with the stormcloaks and kicked the empire everytime I had the chance. Because that ****** in Helgan tried to have me murdered for no reason. That one imperial doomed them all. *laughs evilly*

[Br3admax]

That's a fair point, but Stroud seemed immune ... not necessarily immune, but he knew it wasn't the real Calling. Having that knowledge going into the Joining should put Blackwall in the same boat as Stroud. But yes, I can see how you might want to wait until Corypheus is out of the picture before making more Grey Wardens

He can still influence them, as he did in Legacy. Stroud wasn't immune, Corypheus just wasn't there. There's also the possibility that the Joining will just kill him, and he's still a useful wall for the Inquisition right now. 

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't think Blackwall is a hero. He has pretensions of being one, but then he never really understood the Wardens.

 

Rather than any personal animostiy towards him, I just... don't see much point in rescuing him from justice that he agrees is deserved. Other than the typical Bioware 'there's more content to enjoy if you don't kill off companions, ******,' sort of thing, which is purely selfish metagaming.

 

It's not like a death sentence is undeserved for his crimes. It's not a politically machinated show trial, it's not a crime just because it was against a noble family, there was no good excuse for what he did and was responsible for at any stage in the process. It was just a very serious crime, of the sort that normally would carry death. Him running away from it for so long doesn't make it less of a crime.

 

That he feels his punishment is deserved? That's just dandy, but not a reason not to punish. A society with a working sense of justice should appreciate that even criminals can accept the legitimacy of their punishments.

 

 

Blackwall gets what he deserves, and wants. Society gets deserved justice for a crime long evaded. The Inquisition doesn't besmirch itself more than it needs to with nepotism and personal biases in the justice system. The only losers are the people who don't particularly care about justice or integrity or accountability.

[Br3admax]

Exactly. Though whether I live him to his fate is up to the Inquisitor. I dont care how many lives he hypothetically saved as "Blackwall." 

 

Nemo plus iuris ad alium transferre potest quam ipse habet.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Blackwall gets what he deserves, and wants. Society gets deserved justice for a crime long evaded. The Inquisition doesn't besmirch itself more than it needs to with nepotism and personal biases in the justice system. The only losers are the people who don't particularly care about justice or integrity or accountability.

 

So I guess Orlais is a big loser by your estimation? Let's face it, Orlais political and legal systems are corrupt as all hell, with country's main leaders constantly breaking their own laws with their assassination plots, coups and intrigues. If the Inquisitor really wanted to uphold some measure of moral and legal credibility he or she would have had to hang Celene, Gaspard, Briala and probably two-thirds of the attendants at the ball. No matter what you do in that situation one or possibly all three of them get away with committing acts that would earn you life imprisonments, war crimes accusations or charges of espionage in the real world. But that's all alright because they have power and can offer to the Inquisition so it can use it to save the whole fricking world. And don't even get me started on the chevaliers and their right to get drunk and murder random elves. Orlesian law isn't even worthy to service as toilet paper.

 

The only important difference between them and Blackwall is at least he understood what he did was wrong and devoted his entire life to try and make that right. That all said, I just don't see the point of letting Blackwall die. It does nothing. It does nothing to change the Orlesian legal system, it doesn't satiate anyone's need for revenge, it doesn't secure the Inquisition's image or really affect it at all. All it does is allow a man desperately trying to do the right thing the chance to atone for what he's done. If we had meet Rainer a week after he commited those crimes then we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but after everything he's done...

 

Besides, conscripting him into joining the Wardens just feels like the perfect solution. Joining them is both a life commitment to redemption, a legal loophole and a possible death sentence. Perfect.