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[In Exile]

Well the guy did control Highever, Amaranthine, and Denerim by the time Loghain and his army got back, esentially making him the most powerful man in the country. He is also quite skilled in Intrigue, useful in the middle of a civil war. How was he to know Howe was insane? His own son didn't, Bryce Cousland didn't.

You don't get it. Howe committed an incredible crime against the feudal order and system. Treason is a terrifying crime because it makes everyone in power fear that their subordinates can murder them with impunity and steal their stuff.

This is why no coup d'etat is ever phrased as "I'm betraying all of my vows out of the selfish desire for more personal power and the ideal that any person can lie without consequence or fear for their own personal advancement!"

The very idea Howe has absolute dominion over Amaranthine is ridiculous. Remember at the time his plan is to apparently commit treason against all of Ferelden for ... no gain whatsoever.

The entire might of Highever is at Ostagar. Bryce is a fiercely loyal subordinate to King Cailan. Loghain is a military genius and tied to the Crown by marriage. Arl Eamon isn't even *at* Ostagar.

The whole plan is rank suicide without a greater plot to remove Cailan and Eamon and without cooperation and complicity by Loghain.

No sane person would go along with this. It's almost indescribably stupid.

[leaguer of one]

You don't get it. Howe committed an incredible crime against the feudal order and system. Treason is a terrifying crime because it makes everyone in power fear that their subordinates can murder them with impunity and steal their stuff.

This is why no coup d'etat is ever phrased as "I'm betraying all of my vows out of the selfish desire for more personal power and the ideal that any person can lie without consequence or fear for their own personal advancement!"

The very idea Howe has absolute dominion over Amaranthine is ridiculous. Remember at the time his plan is to apparently commit treason against all of Ferelden for ... no gain whatsoever.

The entire might of Highever is at Ostagar. Bryce is a fiercely loyal subordinate to King Cailan. Loghain is a military genius and tied to the Crown by marriage. Arl Eamon isn't even *at* Ostagar.

The whole plan is rank suicide without a greater plot to remove Cailan and Eamon and without cooperation and complicity by Loghain.

No sane person would go along with this. It's almost indescribably stupid.

Or insanely afraid and hateful of orlais.

[leaguer of one]

Double facepalm. Seriously? THAT is your evidence of race treated differently in game? This dialog is EXACTLY the same for every race with one small exception - mentioning the race. That 2 words about race - yes, different. The rest is the same. And fits human much better, btw, because Solas talk about his journeys and "people" he met. I doubt most of them were qunary. 

 

Sorry, though. Your have all the rights for a pare of rose colored glasses, like anyone else. If you find race reactivity in DAI satisfying - good for you. 

So a  dwarf is called a savage beast by Solas? Sorry, it's different. Think about a moment, near every person south of pol vallen thinks qunari are savage beast who are backward and savage. You even get points off in the winter palace because of it. Hell, half the game it just people uneasy or surprised that you are qunari and the herald of Andraste. Sorry, but human nor elves get that shock uneasy feeling. Then the rest of the game get use to it...till you get a letter from your kith about an uprising because of it and people hunting down qunari because of it.

[Violetbliss]

I don't get one thing, people are saying Humans and elves get a lot more stuff but I just don't see it? With elf, there is a fair bit of ambient stuff and some extra translations, so I can sort of see that, but what's special about the human from the free marches? So far, she seems to have just as much difference as my Qunari (less in the companion chats, actually), and since she isn't Orlesian or Fereldan there isn't much for her to associate to locationwise either. Is it if you play some special class, or? Mine's a warrior - I'm genuninely curious, though.

 

If it's just that a human makes more sense as the Herald, I just don't see that. Your circumstance of elevation means you could just as well have been a Nug around Haven. The nug herald of Andraste.

[Amirit]

So a  dwarf is called a savage beast by Solas? Sorry, it's different. Think about a moment, near every person south of pol vallen thinks qunari are savage beast who are backward and savage. You even get points off in the winter palace because of it. Hell, half the game it just people uneasy or surprised that you are qunari and the herald of Andraste. Sorry, but human nor elves get that shock uneasy feeling. Then the rest of the game get use to it...till you get a letter from your kith about an uprising because of it and people hunting down qunari because of it.

 

Happy for you (seriously, no sarcasm here). Glad those small touches can help you overlook pro-human design of the story. Normally I would even say "great, someone else got something good in the game". If only not for that little though that without race difference we would get small origin-stories for every class. And, may be, some more of ... everything? Though I can be wrong about "everything". Well can be that we would get the very same game only a year earlier (though "origin class stories" were cut out for sure and only because of races).

[Melca36]

I think that it's going to be all or nothing.  Either they decide to cut out all racial choice and just force us to play humans.  Or they allow us to choose all four races.  I don't see them doing anything in between. 

 

You could be right.  As much as I loved the game...I would have really appreciated a better back story for my inquisitors

[TK514]

They should have stuck with their original vision of human only for DA:I, and then done racial choice and reactivity correctly and from scratch in DA4.

[Bocochoco]

Everyone loves choice but I'm starting to think the game would have been better if dwarves and qunari were left out. Reasons include the amount of time and effort that went into making them work especially due to issues like height in cutscenes, being arguably less popular than humans & elves, lack of relevance in the story, their questionable romance compatibility with the LI's (nicely handled in Sera's case though) etc. There's no way of knowing what the tradeoff for having them in the game was but I'm sure it would've added to my enjoyment of the game much more than playable dwarves and qunari did.
 
Thoughts?

First meet Krem as a Qunari. She's as tall as me. "Cool" I think, no wonder Bull chose her, she's a beast.
Next scene, she's 2' shorter than I am and barely up to chest height.
Wtf?

[leaguer of one]

Happy for you (seriously, no sarcasm here). Glad those small touches can help you overlook pro-human design of the story. Normally I would even say "great, someone else got something good in the game". If only not for that little though that without race difference we would get small origin-stories for every class. And, may be, some more of ... everything? Though I can be wrong about "everything". Well can be that we would get the very same game only a year earlier (though "origin class stories" were cut out for sure and only because of races).

Wait ..what? A pro-human designed story. Sorry, you got the story wrong. For one thing this was about the pro's and cons of faith. It does not in any way make the story pro human. It showed how faith can give people something to stand on and at the same time distort things. You seriously have to have the fact your of a race hit over your head over and over again for you to feel that your of that race? Not even dao did that. Did you miss the fact that the vishoth qunari are people stuck between two culture with no were to go and they have to live in a land where nearly nothing is suited or made for them in mind and the majority of the populace thinks they are monster and to be hunted down? Sorry, but i did get that fear playing a qunari in dai. I also got the fact the faith can distort things...so much that people in that faith can accept the unlikely. Sorry, but a race does not need to have giant story plots for them to be valid. And even then, we still got the story elements for what it's like to be a qunari.

[leaguer of one]

First meet Krem as a Qunari. She's as tall as me. "Cool" I think, no wonder Bull chose her, she's a beast.
Next scene, she's 2' shorter than I am and barely up to chest height.
Wtf?

That clearly was a glitch. She was alway shorter then my qunari

[Giantdeathrobot]

Which is why I actually disliked my Dwarf's portrayal in DA:I; you aren't a dwarf.

 

Varric's a great companion don't get me wrong, but in no way except height is he a dwarf. He's is an Andrastian; nothing wrong with that for his character; but in terms of getting a take on dwarven culture we have been severely lacking since DA:O. You can count on one hand the number of times the game actually recognizes you are a dwarf, and you get even fewer instances where you can have your character say that he/she believes in dwarven things like the Stone and the Ancestors. 

 

If I am going to play as a Dwarf; or any race for that matter; I would like for that to mean something beyond an ascetic change and a few throwaway lines of dialog or a simple codex entry.

 

The thing is, if you are even so much as speaking with a dwarf on the surface, unless it's an exceptionnal event like the Fifth Blight or s/he's a Legion of the Dead member, they're not a ''true dwarf'' anymore almost by definition. To keep a ''true dwarf'' PC we'd need to have an entire game set in Orzammar or Kal Sharok, which will never happen.

[tmp7704]

First meet Krem as a Qunari. She's as tall as me. "Cool" I think, no wonder Bull chose her, she's a beast.
Next scene, she's 2' shorter than I am and barely up to chest height.
Wtf?

He was probably just standing on the chair again.

[In Exile]

He was probably just standing on the chair again.

The elevation is screwy outside of the Haven chantry. It messes with relative height.

[jlb524]

I don't get one thing, people are saying Humans and elves get a lot more stuff but I just don't see it? With elf, there is a fair bit of ambient stuff and some extra translations, so I can sort of see that, but what's special about the human from the free marches? So far, she seems to have just as much difference as my Qunari (less in the companion chats, actually), and since she isn't Orlesian or Fereldan there isn't much for her to associate to locationwise either. Is it if you play some special class, or? Mine's a warrior - I'm genuninely curious, though. 

 

If it's just that a human makes more sense as the Herald, I just don't see that. Your circumstance of elevation means you could just as well have been a Nug around Haven. The nug herald of Andraste.

 

The story deals with a good bit of human-centric institutions/politics, like the Chantry/Circle/Templars and then dealing with the Orlesian political situation later on.  A human protag would naturally feel a bit more connected to the story because of that.  A qunari/dwarf feels more like an outsider though that can be appealing to some people and I think that character would bring less personal bias to the table when making decisions, which can be neat.

 

The elf PC gets some extra crap near the end b/c of the Temple of Mythal or whatever, though I don't think that was implemented very well for a Dalish PC.  I felt my elven First came off looking kinda dumb with how some of the dialog went there.  A qunari/dwarf has no problems like this since there aren't many heavy lore moments related to those races and even if there were, the qunari/dwarf PC should be ignorant since they're Vashoth/Surface.

[Hiemoth]

The story deals with a good bit of human-centric institutions/politics, like the Chantry/Circle/Templars and then dealing with the Orlesian political situation later on.  A human protag would naturally feel a bit more connected to the story because of that.  A qunari/dwarf feels more like an outsider though that can be appealing to some people and I think that character would bring less personal bias to the table when making decisions, which can be neat.

 

The elf PC gets some extra crap near the end b/c of the Temple of Mythal or whatever, though I don't think that was implemented very well for a Dalish PC.  I felt my elven First came off looking kinda dumb with how some of the dialog went there.  A qunari/dwarf has no problems like this since there aren't many heavy lore moments related to those races and even if there were, the qunari/dwarf PC should be ignorant since they're Vashoth/Surface.

 

But to repeat, a human character wouldn't be by default as related to this situations. For example, a Tevinter craftsman is probably a lot less affected by the politics than a city elf or a surface dwarven merchant in Orlais. And to further repeat myself, the backgrounds for the different races would have remained somewhat the same, thus the human member of the criminal family would have been exactly as affected by the situation than a dwarf would have been.

[Sjofn]

Yes they were worth it, but I hope they have more relevance to the plot next time. They felt a bit left out compared to human and elf Inquisitors.

 

This is my only complaint. I loved playing my dwarf inquisitor for my first playthrough, and when I got dwarf-themed flavor it was great, but dwarves clearly got the short end of the stick as far as connection to the overall world went. There was pretty much nothing about Orzammar or Kal-sharok which would've been fine (and made sense, obviously), but there was also very little about surface dwarf culture. You get glimpses of it with Varric's personal quest and follow up if you quiz him, but you get the same exact dialogue with ALL the races. I mean, at least my qunari lady got to discuss being Tal-vashoth and such with Iron Bull.

 

I would definitely not have rathered no dwarves at all, though.

[Bigdoser]

This is my only complaint. I loved playing my dwarf inquisitor for my first playthrough, and when I got dwarf-themed flavor it was great, but dwarves clearly got the short end of the stick as far as connection to the overall world went. There was pretty much nothing about Orzammar or Kal-sharok which would've been fine (and made sense, obviously), but there was also very little about surface dwarf culture. You get glimpses of it with Varric's personal quest and follow up if you quiz him, but you get the same exact dialogue with ALL the races. I mean, at least my qunari lady got to discuss being Tal-vashoth and such with Iron Bull.

 

I would definitely not have rathered no dwarves at all, though.

You also get to discuss it with Dorian. 

[Sabbatine]

Yeah, not so sexy now that qunari and elves also have a natural resistance to melee and ranged for the exact same amount. Their 10% magic resist was unique in Origins since elves and humans got nothing, but now, everyone except the ever-so neglected poor humans have perma 25% resistance to something.

 

Posts like this amuse me.

 

Race A has trait B.

Race X has trait Y.

 

In a cooperative environment the desirability of Race A has nothing to do with the trait(s) Race X happen to have.

 

The value and uniqueness of magic resistance is not diminished by the existence of ranged or melee resistance.

[DaySeeker]

It was an elf story.  You've got Solas, elven gods, truth about elves, all kinds of elven ruins, dialogue you can't understand unless you're an elf- elf centered story.  It really seems like you're missing something if you don't play as an elf.  The qunari are cool and I wanted to learn more about them, but you really get very little, and nothing more if you play as one.  Bull will fill you in no matter who you are and your qunari PC wasn't really qunari. Plus the qunari get fewer armors, and some bad design choices; every other race has race specific armor- even if it is hard to find, but not the qunari.  I tried playing as a dwarf, got a few hours in, but it seems like there is nothing for you.

 

I didn't mind playing as a human Hawke and I wouldn't have minded playing as an Inquisitor elf, especially if it meant more and better design choices when it came to character including a body slider, better hair, and cool armor.

[Sjofn]

I don't get one thing, people are saying Humans and elves get a lot more stuff but I just don't see it? With elf, there is a fair bit of ambient stuff and some extra translations, so I can sort of see that, but what's special about the human from the free marches? So far, she seems to have just as much difference as my Qunari (less in the companion chats, actually), and since she isn't Orlesian or Fereldan there isn't much for her to associate to locationwise either. Is it if you play some special class, or? Mine's a warrior - I'm genuninely curious, though.

 

If it's just that a human makes more sense as the Herald, I just don't see that. Your circumstance of elevation means you could just as well have been a Nug around Haven. The nug herald of Andraste.

 

I gotta agree, I've played through as a dwarf, an elf and a human (working on qunari now), and I would say the elf blows everyone else out of the water in terms of "this feels written with my race in mind" content. The human is super bland, the only interesting stuff they get is when they get to play the "lol i'm a noble" card once in a while (and I assume human mages lose that for the special "lol i'm a mage" stuff instead).

 

I mean, I liked my human Inquisitor, but given he was not interested in turning the Inquisition into some religious thing, his being an Andrastian didn't really factor into anything much. Meanwhile, my Dalish dude being very much into his history? Made a lot of Plot Stuff way more compelling.

 

 

You also get to discuss it with Dorian. 

 

I don't remember getting to discuss it at all with Dorian (she was my first inquisitor, they're starting to run together now), but I believe you, since he seems to want to discuss your racial background no matter what (even if you're human!). I don't remember anything about the actual culture, though. Everything to do with the dwarf inquisitor was much more "So, what sort of crimes did you do?" Like how Blackwall sort of goes, "So! Carta, eh?" but you don't really discuss being a dwarf. The best you get is the conversation with Josie about your background (which, of course, everyone gets a version of). Being able to flesh out your own background (which was great, don't get me wrong) isn't quite the same as learning about a culture at large. I didn't learn anything about dwarves when discussing Sofi's background, I just learned stuff about Sofi.

[Bigdoser]

He talks about the Tevinter's relationship with the Qunari and notes that since you are not trying to murder him that you must be Tal vashoth. The conversation is essentially about how Tal Vashoth actually are like a whole different people or culture compared to their Qun counter parts at which point you can agree, saying that you wished more people realized the difference between Qunari and Tal Vashoth.

[Aimi]

> gets to play as a woman as tall as she is for the first time in a game ever
> is asked whether this was worth it

...yes. Yes, it was.

[Sjofn]

He talks about the Tevinter's relationship with the Qunari and notes that since you are not trying to murder him that you must be Tal vashoth. The conversation is essentially about how Tal Vashoth actually are like a whole different people or culture compared to their Qun counter parts at which point you can agree, saying that you wished more people realized the difference between Qunari and Tal Vashoth.

 

I was talking about dwarves, not qunari. Dwarves, as I said originally, are the race I feel gets the least race-specific conversational shout-outs. If you were originally trying to add to the evidence that qunari get more, I misunderstood your initial response to me.

[stop_him]

I guess, but dwarves received the least amount of attention to detail.

 

Dwarves look even more awkward in cutscenes than qunari do. Plus, with their shorter legs - dwarves have this weird skating walk cycle.

 

Someone on another thread mentioned that female humans suffer from droopy boob (which, yes) - dwarven women have traffic cone breasts.

 

 

[tmp7704]

but dwarves clearly got the short end of the stick

Well, obviously.

(i'll get my coat)